>I do not know if it is awesome, kick-####, cool, or way cool>but the cheapest top level flight model is the FREE Cessna 172>on the RealAir web site. The most important thing about>flight simulation is flight dynamics and Rob Young is one of>the best at it. If you do not want doors that open and close>and rivets with proper shadowing this is a very good "standard>aircraft". Skip the eye-candy and really test your skills by>FLYING. If you are not a real pilot you can be easily deluded>by choosing an aircraft with no proper pedigree. Now all you>have is a scenery viewer.>Dick BoleyThe Flight 1 C172 is much more than eye candy. Yes, the visuals are superb, with a sharp 2D panel and VC and good gauge refresh, but the flight model and sounds are what really set it apart. I fly the C172R and SP models in real life and the F1 version in my opinion is extremely close to the real thing. The RealAir C172 is OK for free, but not in the same class in terms of flight model, gauges, sounds, or other visuals. It's not just "eye candy", but a superior product that also costs quite a bit more than the free RealAir. For me the money is not a factor. For you, it may be different, but don't make it seem that all people want is "eye candy" because they choose a product that is accurate in both looks and performance.

Don't forget the new 'Flight1 - Pilatus PC-12' is a nice single engine turboprop, very nice to fly, good handling, very fast, with good endurance and great for short field take off & landingWith a good 2D Panel, VC and CabineA true flying work horse, easly masteredRegardsAntonio

Bruce,You got me thinking about the Carenado Piper 180 so I bought it and have been flying it. It is definitely nice looking and is fun to fly but the difference between Dreamfleet and other brands is best seen at the envelopes of flight. Try the Carenado in slow flight or a stall. Weird behavior! No certified GA aircraft would behave like that (I am not even sure the laws of physics would allow it!). I live and fly in Colorado (real world and sim world) and models that are not fine tuned show their limitations as they near their ceilings too. The Dreamfleet Archer behaves just like most small planes in slow flight. You can literally mush along, turning in shallow turns, while the stall warning continues to wail. I suppose these a subtle details most simmers won't notice but when I buy a new plane I put it through the exact same maneuvers an instructor would in checking you out (slow flight, stalls, steep turns, touch and goes, etc). I would love to see Carenado improve the model, though, because it is very cool otherwise.David

> I fly the C172R and SP models in real life and>the F1 version in my opinion is extremely close to the real>thing. The RealAir C172 is OK for free, but not in the same>class in terms of flight model, gauges, sounds, or other>visuals. >We already know that the RealAir version is just an enhanced add on for the default 172, and don't expect as much in terms of the panel, gauges, and exterior, which are very well done with the Flight1 model. However, when it comes to flight modeling, the RealAir version is certainly up at the top, and not lower in "class" by any means. Funny thing is, at SimForums.com, I defend the Flight 1 model against the RealAir 172, and here, I'm defending the RealAir against the Flight1. Must be both pretty good, in their own way! I too, have flown enough real life Cessna 172's for an opinion. They're somewhat "slow", stable, and don't climb very fast! :D L.Adamson

Yeah, as far as flight model goes, I think the RealAir C172 is pretty much right there with the Flight1 - both are excellent. I spent a lot of time in the RA version of the defualt Cessna, but I don't regret for a second the money spent on the Flight1 version. The panels and VC are great and the external model is solid and better for repainting... :)

>I too, have flown enough real life Cessna 172's for an>opinion. They're somewhat "slow", stable, and don't climb very>fast! :D >>L.AdamsonYeah, definitely no speed records on the way up in the Skyhawk or the Warrior. I'm working on a commercial ticket and have to get the needed hours in a complex and high performance, so I'm looking forward to some speedier planes that don't take 15 minutes on a hot day to get to cruising altitude.

On the freeware side... anything by Milton Shupe and team.Greg

Piper Cub. 208 Amphibian for the defualt aircraft.Mark.

And I bought... the Dreamfleet Beech A36! It's AWESOME!I have to say I really love the Reality XP Garmin 430! That's an awesome piece of equiptment (how do you spell that?)! Really great! Because I'm used to flying airliners (in order of appearance: DF 737, PSS Airbus, PMDG 737) I'm glad I bought the DF Beech A356 because I think I would get bored too soon with other small planes like the Flight1 Cessna 172N. I just seem to NEED a bit more complicated stuff. like that Garmin 430. You really need the official manual for it! More than 200 pages! Yes! :) In the 172N you can only... er.. fly around... ;) I just LOVE to turn knobs and switch things and so on. ;)But apart from that: the A36 is great! It looks awesome (VC and all), has great equipment, it flies lovely, it's the best! I love those little touches like all those things you can open and close in the VC. It makes it all so much more real!BTW I also get Active Camera now and the combination of AC with the A36's VC is AWESOME! I think I can honestly say I never had so much fun with FS! This really is as real as it gets! I think I'm even happier with AC than the A36 itself...! But if you want to know more about that, just read my other topic about AC... ;)Thanks for the tips, all!