How get rid of flaps warning sound?

[WarpD 824]

I believe you have me mistaken with someone else. I've never made a 55x. So far your provided information has not shown that 20* is the 'common' or 'normal' flap position. So... I still question the claim it 'correct'. Available and of value when needed, certainly. But to be used for every takeoff... sorry... see nothing to indicate that at all.

 

Oh... just to be crystal clear... has nothing to do with the lack of horn silence button which is the actual problem.

[raymar 969]

Hey Ed,

 

Why don't you move along, you obviously have nothing positive or constructive to contribute in this Carenado Support Forum. You don't own the plane, you don't even know the basic capabilites as you have 'never seen' the Pressure System or have any experience flying one.

 

The 20 degrees flap setting has everything to do with the sounds. That is what kicked off the query.

 

Not intending to be rude, but . . . .

 

Regards,

 

Ray

[raymar 969]

For those of you that are not familiar with the flap settings for the S550, they are a little different from most of the other Citations. This is partially because of the advanced supercritical wing design, the oversized fowler flaps and Cessna's desire to have a straight-wing Citation break the 400 Knot cruise barrier, and still have really slow takeoff, approach and landing speeds.

 

The S550 was a replacement for the Citation II but was priced a little too high for the gains. After about two years of production Cessna brought back the Citation II as a entry model to compete head on with the Turboprops. Just prior to this, Cessna would guarantee in writing that if you bought a S550 and if wasn't cheaper to own and operate when compared to your turboprop they would write you a check for the difference. No checks were ever requested.

 

One way to beat the Turboprop was to out perform it on its own playing field. This required a very slow approach and landing speed, and naturally a very aggressive takeoff profile to get out of the usually shorter, outlying fields that the Turboprops played in.

 

The additional 10,000 - 15,000 feet of cruising altitude and the 150 knots speed advantage plus the ramp appeal was easier to achieve.

 

One of the nifty enhancements was a Takeoff and Approach setting of 20 degrees for flaps for Normal Takeoffs. Normal landings call for full flap (35 degrees) but approach is 20 deg flap. There is also a mid flap setting, of sorts. This is the 7 degree flap takeoff. Zero flap landings and takeoffs are not recommended except in the most extreme circumstances.

 

One of the better uses of the 7 degree flap setting is to help slow the Citation when coming down from high altitude cruise or starting a long and drawn out approach. You can deploy flaps, even the 20 degree setting at 200 knots. Gear Operating speed is 250 knots with a fix that almost all of the S550 have by now.

 

Slowing down a Citation is not a problem like with the sleeker Lears and Gulfstreams. You can drop the gear, deploy 20 degrees flaps, and extend speed brakes all at the same time. This is why most Citation pilots request to stay high longer and then drop in the terminal area with a very steep descent profile. That way they maintain usually better speeds, for sure better fuel flow, and have no problems fitting in with the other arriving high speed traffic. ATC even likes them not holding up traffic.

 

Hence, the detent for the flaps is labelled TO & Appr, Full flap is labelled Landing, and then you have Up and 7 degrees. The 7 degrees is usually reserved for takeoffs at the large terminal type airports, mostly so the Citation will not look like a Cessna 172 climbing out by having a flatter climb profile.

 

Anyway, the short runway requirements are tied to the 20 degree flap setting. The technique for a 'Normal Takeoff' is to make a static runup with the brakes on, until takeoff power, N1, is confirmed then release the brakes and rotate exactly at VR. Not even close to VR, exactly at VR according the the AFM. This will be explained in the Avsim review.

 

The AFM further states that given a choice of 20 deg flap or 7 degrees flaps, you should opt for the 20 degree setting. This is just a little edge for the safety margin should you have to abort or any other malfunction on takeoff.

 

The question being asked is does anyone know where Carenado buried the sound file for the 'pulsating tone', more like a weak warning, that we get when we perform a Normal takeoff with 20 degrees flaps. In this case, at near Sea Level you will rotate in about 2,000 feet and when you have positive climb, you should retract the gear. But, you are specifically told not to retract flaps until V2 +10 knots. I agree this comes fairly rapidly, but this irritating - bong, bong, bong - is there until the flaps get to the 7 degree setting or full up.

 

Most Turbine schools teach that no "lifting device" should be retracted on takeoff and climb out until 1,000 feet AGL. This has to do with avoiding a common error of inexperienced copilots commanding full retraction rather than one-step flap retraction as the Captain had intended.

 

That is what we have been seeking. Where do we find the sound file and delete it?

 

Regards,

 

Ray

[autogyro 18]

Sound files are located in the sounds folder of the Carenado citation main folder.

 

The call up of the relevant wav file is via the sound.cfg file within this folder.

 

Alternatively, and this may be why it can't be found, it could be referencing any generic warning sound located in the FSX or P3d sounds folder.

 

Raymar if you can PM me the contents of the sound.cfg after all the stuff on the engine sound effects I can try and help.

[raymar 969]

Shuai Li,

 

Thanks for the offer but, we have listened to every file in the Sound Folder. It is not a file found there. Carenado is using some other method of accessing the noise, so it is being called from someplace.

 

Regards,

 

Ray

[raymar 969]

Interesting. I just changed out the Carenado Sound files for the TSS Citation II (from 2008) Sound Pack and the annoying flap warning is not present in the TSS sound pack. Hmmm. I might have to retract my statements about not needing to look for an add on sound pack for the S550.

 

I have a temporary fix for now. Maybe SP2 will have the fix in it.

 

Regards,

 

Ray

[autogyro 18]

Shuai Li,

 

Thanks for the offer but, we have listened to every file in the Sound Folder. It is not a file found there. Carenado is using some other method of accessing the noise, so it is being called from someplace.

 

Regards,

 

Ray

Hi Ray,

 

As I said it might be referencing and generic wav file outside of the Citation II sounds folder, in the main parent sounds folder. If changing the sound.cfg file removed it, then it's definitely in there.

[Joe L 62]

As a work around I changed flap_limit_power from 19 to 21 in the aircraft.cfg file.  This should of course prevent it from sounding at flaps 20 on approach with no gear, which may be unrealistic  . . .

[raymar 969]

<<<<< GOOD NEWS >>>>>

I got an email from Carenado Support this morning that states this Flap Warning Issue was addressed in SP2.
 

Yea Team.

 

Regards,

 

Ray

[autogyro 18]

Good to hear.

 

Or not hear, as the case may be! 

[vcarlo 529]

Ray,

 

Thanks tons for the detailed explanation provided earlier regarding the S550 and comparisons with Turboprops !

 

I'm sure I speak for tons of virtual business jet pilots as we "eat this stuff up"

 

With your input, Bert's panel configs (GTN integration), and the future Carenado SPs this bird is maturing to become a real winner.

 

Looking forward to enjoying your AVSIM review.

[Bert Pieke 7,585]

As a work around I changed flap_limit_power from 19 to 21 in the aircraft.cfg file.  This should of course prevent it from sounding at flaps 20 on approach with no gear, which may be unrealistic  . . .

 

Joe,

 

Gold star to you!  :wub:

 

It is a "belt and suspenders" issue.

 

In the aircraft.cfg file, set

 

[gear_warning_system]

gear_warning_available = 0

 

and the sound goes away.

 

Since Carenado has programmed its own Gear Warning, this is not required, and indeed gets in the way..

[raymar 969]

Ray,

 

Thanks tons for the detailed explanation provided earlier regarding the S550 and comparisons with Turboprops !

 

I'm sure I speak for tons of virtual business jet pilots as we "eat this stuff up"

 

With your input, Bert's panel configs (GTN integration), and the future Carenado SPs this bird is maturing to become a real winner.

 

Looking forward to enjoying your AVSIM review.

 

Thanks. I do love the Citations.  Wait til we get the SIJET Super S-II up and flying.  It will blow the doors off this one.

 

Regards,

Ray

[raymar 969]

Atta Boys go to Bert and Joe for solving this mystery. I just purchased a Grande Latte for each of you. Mmmmmm good.

 

Regards,

Ray

[Joe L 62]

Looks like SP2 is up - home for lunch and downloading now.