Wilco have released the 777, im interested in this bird, if you got it, what ya think of it?http://www.wilcopub.com/

Clayton,I think you need to put your reading glasses back on:-) Wilco have *announced* the 777, but it has not yet been released. The project was announced on the Feelthere website some months ago, and going by past experience, I would say it will be at least a couple of months until it is released.

yes, it's still early in the process. This is only the 2nd or 3rd announcement. Usually we get 3 or 4 announcements, then a few for Gold or Beta releases, the a Just About announcement, then the big day. I figure we're about half way there...billg

how about these ones:-cool :-lolhow come you can order the boxed version now?

poop on the 777...look at the 737 series!! (-300,-400,-500 models)Slated for summer 2005!!weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!! :-jumpy

Hah, I wouldn't sink a penny on a Wilco product until I see reviews, lots of shots, and hear the functionality is good. Look at their A380... They avoided showing external shots as much as possible because the thing was total crap... It's FeelThere, so it can't be too bad... But let's wait and see.Daniel P.http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/ng_driver.jpgMember of SJU Photography. [A HREF=http://www.jetphotos.net/showphotos.php?userid=9004]Click Here[/A] to view my aircraft photos at JetPhotos.Net!The official psychotic AA painter. :)

This is EXACTLY what I posted on the Feelthere site! After the A380 fiasco there are a LOT of simmers who don't have a good feeling about Wilco's "Fleet" line of products even if it is made by Feelthere (whose products I really like). And as I posted, I cautioned Feelthere to be carefull that they get lumped in with Wilco.Wilco's recent aircraft releases have been somewhat lackluster. The A320 was lukewarmly received at best. As far as the A380...well...have you ever seen pictures of Hiroshima just after the blast??? I think that, given Wilco's track record, the 777 Fleet and 737 PIC will be viewed with a very critical eye by the FS community. This means that Feelthere has a great chance to either swim like a fish or sink like the Titanic. Either way, Feelthere and Wilco will sink or swim together. I just hope the lumbering weight of Wilco doesn't drag Feelthere down with them!Personnally, I really want a 777 for FS2004 but I also know that Phoneix is developing a "highly detailed" 777 so it will be Wilco vs. Phoenix on this one. The problem is that Wilco's 777 is designated a "Fleet" model (A380 is a fleet model also)which means that it will be designed to have less fidelity than their "PIC" line of products while Phoenix is going for 100% functionality. I question why one would even think about releasing a "hobbled" 777 knowing that your competition is attempting to release their most detailed and advanced aircraft to date? You would think that Wilco would be trying to trump the competition by releasing a 777-PIC!Oh, well, I AM jumping the gun, only time will tell.Regards,Mike T.

Mike:My feelings exactly. What I think is that Wilco is realizing they lost their credibility basically after 767PIC... So they're going for the market that doesn't know a lot about aviation and probably doesn't even know who they are. I found a copy of their A380 at EB last week... You look at the box and you'd think it's half-decent... But any simmer who's even a tiny bit discriminating won't buy it. So I guess it's easy to see what the target is. If a GOOD company stacked up, it could probably stand up to PSS (things there have gone WAY downhill after the 777V2, except for the Dash-8)... But PSS has its chance to redeem itself with this 777, it's their flagship product. Let's hope they play their cards right and deliver a stunning product. They have all the resources and the previous experience to do so.Let's just say I won't be holding my breath about the FT 777. The 737 has my attention, though. Let's see. DreamFleet might come out with theirs and then there's a problem for FeelThere. :-lolDaniel P.http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/ng_driver.jpgMember of SJU Photography. [A HREF=http://www.jetphotos.net/showphotos.php?userid=9004]Click Here[/A] to view my aircraft photos at JetPhotos.Net!The official psychotic AA painter. :)

Daniel:You are right about Phoenix! Phoneix has never released a LDS / PIC / PMDG quality product in the big airliner world yet. The A320, A340, B777 and B747 were nice but they were ALL missing huge amounts of functionality from the overhead to the FMC to flight dynamics. It will be interesting to see what Phoenix comes up with on their 777 and 757 releases.And that brings us to LDS and their upcoming 757, and Dreamfleet and their 737 which are and were the hallmark companies to beat. Methinks that Wilco/Feelthere and Phoenix will have to turn up the volume a few notches to play in the PIC quality arena. Or just do like Wilco does and name their products "Fleet" and target the folks who are quite happily flying the default 737-400 and 777-300!PMDG is quietly treading water with their upcoming 747-400 release. At least they know they have the ball all to themselves. Here too, Phoenix had an old release, but I would love to see a Phoenix vs PMDG comparison on the Queen of the Skies!It should be a very interesting summer and fall for FS. I foresee great accolades for some, great bashing for others and quite a few legendary rants here at Avsim! Fasten your seatbelt, there is some rough air up ahead! :-lolRegards,Mike T.

Are the aircraft you buy really that much better than the free stuff?I've never bought one since there are so many good ones offered as freeware.This is not a crticism, I'm just curious.

Hi:Well, that depends. Visually you can find STUNNING stuff for free... The biggie is functionality. Take for example the PMDG 737NG... The plane has a very very functional FMC (Flight Management Computer), most of the systems work pretty well (a few gaps here and there, but very decent anyways), and the cockpit feels quite realistic, with all the bells and whistles. I suggest if you want to get a feel for what's out there though, you get the LDS767. Not because it's better than PMDG (IMO they're about on par, I personally prefer the NG in some things), but because it's more bang for the buck. If you dominate that product, you can confidently step into pretty much any complex add-on cockpit and master it in a few flights.So yeah, I think for the most part payware is far more immersive, with exceptions of course. I'd say get a complex payware aircraft and see for yourself. If you don't like it, Flight1 has a 30-day return policy, so you can get your money back.Daniel P.http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/ng_driver.jpgMember of SJU Photography. [A HREF=http://www.jetphotos.net/showphotos.php?userid=9004]Click Here[/A] to view my aircraft photos at JetPhotos.Net!The official psychotic AA painter. :)

If you want to find fully functional systems with a high quality VC, you almost always have to buy payware. I keep going back to a few high quality products, Ready for Pushback V2 747-200, PMDG 737, Aerowox B200 so far. Some like the PMDG 1900C have come close to that list but they lack certain system functionality. Anyway most freeware aircraft look fantastic, but if they have a VC it is usually very simple and the systems aren't modeled like a payware airplane. now this is expected since they don't get income to work so long to do this. I am going to fly the PAD Dash that just came out, she does look fantastic for a freeware aircraft!

It depends on what you want out of the sim. If you want hardcore realism then payware is the only option. Granted there are spectacular freeware external models from POSKY, IDFG, etc however they lack panels and 3d cockpits that offer pinpoint detail. You will only find the combination of the two from payware aircraft...period.Regards,MikePS, is it worth it? Try it and you will never go back to anything else.

that new Trident is supposed to be very payware quality for free, I dont have it but from the thred I read it looks as complicated as any payware.it also depends on where you buy your payware, PMDG, Flight1, LDS are just a few that do very good work, ALPHASIM, FSD, The LZ are a few that seem to be hit and miss on, some of the payware I have bought are barely freeware quality but most is outstanding.It's good to know what kind of aircraft you want, then find out whos making it and ask on your favorite forum for some advice on that aircraft and "company".