Any interest in updated SE Alaska RNAV RNP approach procedures (including Juneau)?

[jeff20 52]

I am very interested in your work on this looking forward to it

thank you

 

jeff20

[downscc 1,327]

Fascinating and I'm really glad you guys opened the door to new knowledge for me.  I first learned about ASA two decades ago in my MBA program where I was assigned to determine a market value and a buy/sell recommendation for a fictional wealthy buyer. Of course anyone who is familiar knows that is a lot of work but I enjoyed it and became a big ASA fan.  I also recall from my history reading something in AW&ST (we called it Aviation Leak and Spy Technology in the AF) about ASA being the kickoff customer for the HUD for use in low-vis departures at KSEA.

 

I have the ORBX Southern Alaska and PAJN airport and yes, it's very much worth the investment. My first run at it with an ASA PMDG B739 was with actual weather from ASN at (FAA) minimums and if it were not for the guide in lights I would have gone around. Lots of fun.

 

OBTW I have a lot of experience with the sidstar syntax so use me as a resource if you wish.

[Stearmandriver 2,296]

Stearmandriver,

Is your neighbor using the ORBX regional and JNU scenery add-ons? Other then major visual improvements, I believe I've read that it slightly changes the default runway location and terrain to better match real world data. This may effect some users depending if your approaches/departures are built using this scenery or not.

Yes he is (and so am I, I had to get all this stuff to play with too, I was so impressed ;-) ). The ORBX scenery, plus the Juneau and Ketchikan airports (oh yeah, we did Ketchikan too if I didn't mention it), plus the Tongass Fjords scenery to cover Sitka and Petersburg. Also, we had both installed the older SE RNP procedures someone built a couple years ago before starting our own work so it's possible that has an effect too; I believe his package slightly adjusts some of those runways. But I have the feeling that the approaches should get you pretty close either way.

 

559AS, can you check your PMs? I was hoping you'd take a look at these and give me a second opinion on any privacy issues...

 

Thanks!

[cannonplug 126]

 

 

I'm not releasing any proprietary data here.

 

I'm wondering whether this isn't one of those situations in which it would be best to ask for permission first rather than forgiveness later. What is "publicly available" to some may still be protectable to others. And even if you did make changes, the question always remains whether you changed it enough. 

 

This is not legal advice, by the way. I'm just offering this up for consideration.

[559AS 11]

Yes he is (and so am I, I had to get all this stuff to play with too, I was so impressed ;-) ). The ORBX scenery, plus the Juneau and Ketchikan airports (oh yeah, we did Ketchikan too if I didn't mention it), plus the Tongass Fjords scenery to cover Sitka and Petersburg. Also, we had both installed the older SE RNP procedures someone built a couple years ago before starting our own work so it's possible that has an effect too; I believe his package slightly adjusts some of those runways. But I have the feeling that the approaches should get you pretty close either way.

 

559AS, can you check your PMs? I was hoping you'd take a look at these and give me a second opinion on any privacy issues...

 

Thanks!

 

PM sent.

[Stearmandriver 2,296]

 

 

OBTW I have a lot of experience with the sidstar syntax so use me as a resource if you wish.

 

Hey, thanks for the offer.  I actually do have a syntax question for you (or anyone else):  do you know how to code an "at or below" speed?  For instance, "FIX POINTE AT OR BELOW 3000 SPEED 210" will code POINTE at or below 3000ft, but at 210 knots as a hard speed.  How do you code "210 knots or less"?  Given the common sense format of this syntax in general I'm sure it's easy, but none of the verbiage that's seemed obvious to me has worked thus far! 

 

As far as everything else, there's some discussion occurring about whether it's safe and smart to release these; there may be factors that weren't at first obvious to me.  I sincerely apologize for getting anyone's hopes up; but all is not yet lost, this could still happen.  And if not, it turns out there is an older version of the RNAV RNP 26 into JNU that is public knowledge... the approach chart can be found on the internet.  So, no harm in building and releasing THAT procedure anyway.

 

Will keep you posted.

[downscc 1,327]

You want to get Terry Yingling's guide to the sidstar syntax, available in the AVSIM library with filename "making_737ng_procedures_5th.zip"

 

The speed constraint is just an optional adjective for a FIX statement, and it always a hard constraint when used.  To be honest I haven't tried this in a long time but we used to be able to put 210B/ manually in the LEGS page, which is a AT OR BELOW 210 constraint, but not via the procedure file.  The NGX will accept speed constraints in most segments whereas the B777 requires an altitude constraint at the same waypoint.

 

In general, there are some things best left uncoded in the procedures such as EXPECT altitudes or AT OR ABOVE\BELOW speeds and let the pilot fly the airplane. I always assume the pilot has the charts.  Without chart then I guess next best thing is the hard 210 constraint.

[Stearmandriver 2,296]

There's a GUIDE?! Do you know how much time that would probably have saved me vs trial and error? ;-)

 

Haha thanks for the reference though, I'll definitely check it out. As far as the speed restrictions, for my purposes, the reason is that when arcing (simulated using many waypoints), there's a max speed you can maintain the arc at. But those segments usually come after the FAP, meaning if you're flying the profile you should be fully configured and at final speed before then anyway. I coded them as hard speeds and of course the FMC will command maneuver speed for each flap setting as you slow so it doesn't mean the FMC really requires that speed at the fix, but it seems the VNAV path computations are affected a bit by the faster speed in the procedure, if it's a hard speed. So yup, your solution is probably right - just leave the speeds out of the procedure all together, with maybe a suggestion to manually enter "180B" for a speed at the applicable fix.

 

Thanks...

[downscc 1,327]

 

 

There's a GUIDE?! Do you know how much time that would probably have saved me vs trial and error? ;-)

 

LOL I can imagine. Hey, I offered help and when you asked I delivered.  I suggest you create a signature block in your profile settings to make it easy to satisfy PMDG's desire that full names are on all posts. It's in the forum rules. Back on topic, I look forward to seeing what you are able to provide and appreciate the effort.

[Stearmandriver 2,296]

All,

 

All right, I've uploaded the PAJN RNAV RNP 26 and the RNAV RNP GLAZZ1 departure.  My first upload on AVsim, don't know how long they take to publish, but I'd assume they'll be up shortly.  The filename is PAJN_RNAV_Procedures_NGX.zip.

 

Since a google image search turns up a couple older versions of the RNP 26, I feel safe publishing that one.  I'm not the one who made the plates available, and there's nothing in my procedures that can't be gleaned from looking at the plate, so we're probably good.  I built the 2010 version, chart available here:

http://s938.photobucket.com/user/ForgottoBid/media/Temp7_zps08e313ed.png.html

 

There's no chart publicly available for the GLAZZ1 departure... but it's so obviously the very same track in reverse, I thought, "why not" ;-).

 

Feedback is welcome.  Hope you have as much fun with them as I have!

[Dan208B 0]

All,

 

All right, I've uploaded the PAJN RNAV RNP 26 and the RNAV RNP GLAZZ1 departure.  My first upload on AVsim, don't know how long they take to publish, but I'd assume they'll be up shortly.  The filename is PAJN_RNAV_Procedures_NGX.zip.

 

Since a google image search turns up a couple older versions of the RNP 26, I feel safe publishing that one.  I'm not the one who made the plates available, and there's nothing in my procedures that can't be gleaned from looking at the plate, so we're probably good.  I built the 2010 version, chart available here:

http://s938.photobucket.com/user/ForgottoBid/media/Temp7_zps08e313ed.png.html

 

There's no chart publicly available for the GLAZZ1 departure... but it's so obviously the very same track in reverse, I thought, "why not" ;-).

 

Feedback is welcome.  Hope you have as much fun with them as I have!

 

 

Hey this is great, thanks for doing this! I also fly for Alaska and am interested to check all this out. I heard about this and purchased the PMDG airplane and scenery for Southeast. Really incredible stuff. I'll check it out this week and let you know but I'm sure you did it right! Thanks again!  -Dan

[Copper. 78]

Great! Thanks for the effort. I'll give it a try.

From a big RNP fan... Kudos to you and your airline!

Brian Nellis

[Skiff 9]

This is fantastic! As someone who does a lot of flying in P3D around SE AK in the PMDG 737, I want more more more!

[Stearmandriver 2,296]

This is fantastic! As someone who does a lot of flying in P3D around SE AK in the PMDG 737, I want more more more!

Fun stuff, huh? So have you used the JNU procedures in P3D? If so, how do they work? I assumed the text files that make up the procedure would work the same in the NGX on P3D, but have no way to test them.

[Skiff 9]

Fun stuff, huh? So have you used the JNU procedures in P3D? If so, how do they work? I assumed the text files that make up the procedure would work the same in the NGX on P3D, but have no way to test them.

 

Did the RNP 26 approach, no problems aside from visibility being so poor I had to go around. Awesome!