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Stearmandriver

Any interest in updated SE Alaska RNAV RNP approach procedures (including Juneau)?

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Hello all,

 

Recently my teenaged neighbor has gotten interested in airline flying and has been using FSX a bunch. Knowing that I fly for Alaska, he's asked me quite a few questions about the unique flying we do, and I've been showing him things on fsx. Suffice to say, I was utterly blown away when I first saw your NG simulator - I had no idea desktop simulation had progressed so far.

 

Anyhow, he had installed the older RNP procedures someone created for Southeast a couple years ago, but Juneau wasn't included and many of the others have been updated. We set about seeing if we could figure out how to code the new procedures in the NGX box, and we're pretty happy with the results. We've got updated procedures for Juneau, Sitka, Wrangell, Petersburg, Yakutat and Cordova.

 

If there's any interest in using these, I can probably figure out how to upload them. It's been a fun project so we thought we'd offer to share.

 

One note: the real procedures are proprietary and fiercely protected by Alaska Airlines, as they should be. I'm not releasing any proprietary data here. I've moved and renamed a bunch of waypoints to make them work in the sim, so the final ground track closely approximates what we fly. But any passenger with a gps map running on his cell phone could see that. So I don't see a problem with sharing these. Naturally it should go without saying that they wouldn't work in real life; I'm confident anyone trying to navigate with them would end up in a mountain ;-).

 

Anyhow, let us know if there's interest.


Andrew Crowley

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I am confused, you say ASA owns the approaches?  I've flown the RNP into PAJN as published by the FAA and from what I know of instrument procedure design (TERPS) I don't think a private company has the resources to do what the FAA does in terms of design, flight check and publishing updates not to mention the liability if something goes wrong.  So, the question is are you sure ASA owns the IAPs?


Dan Downs KCRP

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Dan, you may have flown the published RNP for RWY 8. AS has non published RNP approach and departure procedures for both RWY 8 and 26.

 

The mins are significantly lower then the published RNP approaches.


Ryan Syferd (KSEA)



 

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Stearmandriver,

 

Welcome! We've got I believe 2 other AS employees on here including myself. We briefly look at helping produce these approaches a couple of years ago, but decided not to because as you said, they're very closely guarded and proprietary procedures by Alaska.

You may have the right idea though. By changing the names of the waypoints we'd probably be ok. Never thought of that... I'd love to use your work, so yes I'd be interested too.

 

I've been using our JNU RNP procedures via our fltops site, but as you know, many of the waypoints don't exist in the published nav database. So it requires building custom waypoints.

 

Again, I'd love to use your work.


Ryan Syferd (KSEA)



 

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I am confused, you say ASA owns the approaches?  I've flown the RNP into PAJN as published by the FAA and from what I know of instrument procedure design (TERPS) I don't think a private company has the resources to do what the FAA does in terms of design, flight check and publishing updates not to mention the liability if something goes wrong.  So, the question is are you sure ASA owns the IAPs?

 

FAA? Pfft. What do those clowns know about RNP? ;)

 

In 1996, Alaska Airlines became the first airline in the world to utilize an RNP approach with its approach down the Gastineau Channel into Juneau, Alaska. Alaska Airlines Captain Steve Fulton and Captain Hal Anderson developed more than 30 RNP approaches for the airline's Alaska operations. In 2005, Alaska Airlines became the first airline to utilize RNP approaches into Reagan National Airport to avoid congestion.[2] In April 2009, Alaska Airlines became the first airline to gain approval from the FAA to validate their own RNP approaches.[2] On 6 April 2010, Southwest Airlines converted to RNP.[3]

 


Matt Cee

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Lol. Anyone who knows anything about RNP should equally know all about Steve Fulton and ASA's role in pioneering RNP at PAJN, the birthplace of RNP.

 

But I do study the subject more than most.

 

I'm a big fan RNP AR, so I would be very interested in playing around Alaska over this easter weekend with the procedures.

 

Brian Nellis

 

Edit: I am mistaken. Juneau is not the birthplace of RNP. I could've sworn Fulton stated in a video that it kicked off as a result of PAJN and it's sphincter tightening  weather. Hmmm...


Brian Nellis

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Hawaiian owns a few proprietary approaches as well, so it can be done!


Brendan R, KDXR PHNL KJFK

Type rated: SF34 / DH8 (Q400) / DC9 717 MD-88/ B767 (CFI/II/MEI/ATP)

Majestic Software Q400 Beta Team / Pilot Consultant / Twitter @violinvelocity

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Oh yeah, AS owns the procedures for certain. We have our own set of TERPS criteria, also developed by our own engineers and tech pills and approved by the FAA, that we are allowed to develop our own procedures in accordance with. There is a public RNAV to 08 in JNU, but our RNP procedures get us much, much lower. Our friends in the double-breasted blazers recently filed a FOI act to get the procedures, were rejected, sued and lost. But, that's all the behind the scenes engineering data, TERPS data etc. What we've approximated in the sim doesn't use any of that because of course as a regular line pilot I wouldn't have access to it anyway. All we do is select it in the box and fly it.

 

Give me a few days to hopefully have another AS pilot preview it, and I'll sanitize it further by changing all waypoint names, and we should be ready.


Andrew Crowley

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Awesomeness - with a side of gravy! Haha.

 

Stearmandriver big thanks for the offer and time! This is what makes simming/Avsim great. An actual Alaska pilot helping out. Pinch me I must be dreaming.

 

I am just a simmer but only fly Alaska. I have tried to fly Alaska routes as much as possible. Making it as real as possible too (weather, charts, planning, blah blah). I am a prop guy - recently started the DASH 8 but have been in the j4100 a lot (J4100 not realistic to Alaska airlines but I like the extra workload).

 

After flying realtime weather in Alaska all winter I have grown a huge respect for you guys that fly it for real.

 

I salute you Mr. StearmanD! And thanks again. You are living the dream of many guys here.

 

Rob Hollis


Rob

"Life is 10% what happens to me and 90% of how I react to it"

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Thank's for bringing back this I love flying in  PAJN.

Is there any chance that we can bring this procedure to the majestic?

I am in the queue for this.


 

 

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Stearmandriver,

Is your neighbor using the ORBX regional and JNU scenery add-ons? Other then major visual improvements, I believe I've read that it slightly changes the default runway location and terrain to better match real world data. This may effect some users depending if your approaches/departures are built using this scenery or not.


Ryan Syferd (KSEA)



 

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