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BrianG

GTX 960 upgrade has down graded performance

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Hi all,

My Radeon 6800 series( 1GB) card stopped working. Replaced it with a GTX 960 (2GB) and my FPS have diminished by 1/3. I ran Nvidia inspector for the default FSX tweaks and added a few I found while searching the forum.. I took out my old FSX.cfg and let FSX build a new one and put in the essential Word Not Allowed tweaks. Still, performance is very lacking compared with the older Radeon card that is only 1GB. Frames drop to single digits with approaching payware airports where they used to be around 20 FPS under same circumstances using the Radeon 6800. Can anyone see a potential conflict with this new card and my specs posted below. Nvidia support says my specs are fine for the new card, but they're not FS experts. I did a stress test on the card. No issues there. The CPU isn't that powerful, but again, I was getting much better performance with the old card, all else being equal. Thanks for your help.

 

CPU : I7-870

GPU: GTX 960

PSU: Corsair 650w

RAM: 8 GB (2x4)

HD:    1 TB

OS Windows 7 64 bit

 

Best,

Brian

 

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What are the power settings on the Nvidia Inspector set to? Adaptive or Maximum Performance?

What about the Antialiasing?

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I would start by deleting the FSX.cfg file, rebooting and letting FSX create a new one.

 

Thanks Jude.That's exactly what I did as written above. Still bad results.

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What are the power settings on the Nvidia Inspector set to? Adaptive or Maximum Performance?

What about the Antialiasing?

 

Power is set to Max perfomance.

Antialiasing is set to 8xs.

Transparency supersampling is set to 2x Sparse Grid Supersampling

Antialiasing mode is set to: Override any application setting

Behavior flags: None

FXAA usage: disallowed

 

Thanks for your help

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Your GPU is doing unnecessary work:
 

1/ Antialiasing is set to 8xs.
2/ Transparency supersampling is set to 2x Sparse Grid Supersampling


Only use 1/ with DX9
Only use 2/ with DX10 and DX11

More about that in this discussion "FSX-SE Nvidia Inspector doesnt override AA".

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Only use 1/ with DX9
Only use 2/ with DX10 and DX11

 

Thanks Steve. A bit confused on your recommendations. I use DX9. So, are you saying keep antialiasing set to 8xs and don't use 2x sparse grid supersampling for the Transpernac setting? Thanks again. I'll check out the link you posted.

 

Cheers,

Brian

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Yes Brian, transparency is to do with the way DX10 and DX11 images are made, which are different to DX9. It's best to only use the AA method associated with the version of D3D in use.

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Yes Brian, transparency is to do with the way DX10 and DX11 images are made, which are different to DX9. It's best to only use the AA method associated with the version of D3D in use.

 

Thanks again Steve. With that said, for DX9 users, where would you suggest I set Transparency Super Sampling?

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Thanks again Steve. With that said, for DX9 users, where would you suggest I set Transparency Super Sampling?

When using FSX DX10 Preview, or P3Dv2

 

If using DX9, start with a default profile and set:

Antialiasing - Behaviour Flags = Treat 'Override any' as 'App-Controlled'

Antialiasing - Mode = Enhance the application setting

Antialiasing - Setting = 4x4 [4x4 Supersampling (D3D only)] (or to something less)

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Yes Brian, transparency is to do with the way DX10 and DX11 images are made, which are different to DX9. It's best to only use the AA method associated with the version of D3D in use.

Dx9 requires transparency aa to reduce shimmer. Most people use fsx dx9 with some setting of sgss to achieve this.

It used to be possible with just 8xs but has not been the case for several years now since nvidia changed driver optimizations

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Dx9 requires transparency aa to reduce shimmer.

Wrong.

 

I'm sat here with two systems, both with FSX, and FSX-SE, One Win7 with GTX480, and one Win8 with GTX680, both have 1920x1200 screens.

 

I'm waiting for you to give me the settings for NVidia CP and/or NI, that demonstrate any improvements to AA by using Transparency with DX9 FSX or FSX-SE. Of course, there's a reason it won't work, but I'll give you that chance to suggest some settings and we'll give it a go.

 

:D

 

I mean, come on, it takes longer to write comments about it than it does to test it out.

 

If you check out the posts above Glenn, and give it a go:

 

If using DX9, start with a default profile and set:

Antialiasing - Behaviour Flags = Treat 'Override any' as 'App-Controlled'

Antialiasing - Mode = Enhance the application setting

Antialiasing - Setting = 4x4 [4x4 Supersampling (D3D only)] (or to something less)

 

4x4 is the top Supersampling setting for DX9, and that's a bit like having 4x the screen area, so it's common to set something lower than that.

 

And this is the DX10 setup:

 

If using DX10 start with a default profile and set:

Antialiasing - Behaviour Flags = None

Antialiasing - Transparency Supersampling = 2xSS, 4xSS, or 8xSS

 

If the instruments still look poorly antialiased, then choose 2xSGSS, 4xSGSS, or 8xSGSS. Here I am talking about for example a Carenado 1900D or C340, or a BN2 Islander, but with a stock plane ignore SGSS and just use SS - the difference is in the models. You will find SSAA better overall than SGSSAA, so only use SGSSAA for those planes that exhibit the excessive pixellation, even though the background is AA'd.

 

(NI 1.9.7.3 + NVidia 347.88)

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Why is SGSSAA not as good as SSAA? Because it does what it says on the tin, takes a sparse grid sample so it's like lowering the resolution of the starting image. Transparency is not about seeing through a clingfilm wrapper, that's opacity. DX10 and DX11 textures require Transparency supersampling because they are more complex than DX9 textures. To put it very simply, sparse grid samples come into use when the model scaling creates indeterminate pixel sizes around the edges of some objects, in FSX DX10 and DX11 P3Dv2.

 

Here's shots from the BN2 compared with and without sparse grid supersampling, it's much better to see it in the sim. On the left just supersampling, on the right sparse grid applied, FSX DX10. SGSS is not required with stock aircraft or aircraft like PMDGs 777 for example.

 

DX10SparseGrid.jpg

 

Still waiting for those settings Glenn...

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I'm still getting single digit FPS ( unusable) when approaching flightbeam ksfo using the recommended DX9 settings posted above, where I was around 20 fps (everything else being equal) with my Radeon 6800 1 gb card. Can someone tell me how to post my NI here so you can see what I've got. That in conjunction with posting my FSX settings and FSX.CFG might help clarify where the problem lies. All this for a GPU change? Good grief !!

I redid my FSX.CFG and put all the basic tweaks in as I had it before. Spent hours with horrible results. I've turned off transparency supersampling. My instruments look OK. Even at 2x or 4x, my FPS really didn't change that much.

This should not be happening in comparing the two cards. Has to be something I'm not doing or doing wrong. Thanks for all your help. My specs are on the first post in this thread.

 

Cheers,

Brian

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Yes transparency won't help as I said, since that's for DX10. However, I also said 4x4 was the top AA for DX9 so hopefully you tried the lowest first 2x [2x Multisampling] and worked up.

 

Even if you get an efficient AA setup, doesn't mean it will definitely fix your issue, could be a number of things.

 

Several tweaks you may have had that worked in conjuction with the old card, but won't with the NVidia. Set up a default cfg and leave it default, don't install those tweaks, could be messing you up. You should be able to set up the AA in a few minutes.

 

You are using DX9, so make sure you start with a default profile and set:

Antialiasing - Behaviour Flags = Treat 'Override any' as 'App-Controlled'

Antialiasing - Mode = Enhance the application setting

Antialiasing - Setting = 2x [2x Multisampling]

 

You can make a default profile by using the restore button in CP, and apply, that deletes the fsx profile. Then make any setting in CP to create the new profile, so set Antialiasing - Mode = Enhance the application setting to make the new profile with that already set, go into NI and the fsx profile can be selected, set 2x, and behaviour flags as above. Then try 4x, should be only minutes of work.

 

If you can do that first, we can see if it's working right. Be careful to follow those instructions carefully. If that does not work with the default cfg then the card is not working properly. You could go on to try default bios settings and so on. I hope you get it going Brian! speak later.

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This should not be happening in comparing the two cards. Has to be something I'm not doing or doing wrong. Thanks for all your help. My specs are on the first post in this thread.

 

Is the 6800 completely broken or is it working enough so that you could reinstall it's drivers?

 

gb.

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NV_Inspecto_Vsync4.jpg4x4 FSAA or 2x2 FSAA?

there is a reason we choose 8xs with 2x sgss

There are 100's of users that use this setting on these very forums

8xs is 4x ms with 1x2 ssaa

The reason?
4x4 ssaa will cripple perf, 2x2 isnt much better.

The sgssaa will at least get rid of shimmering on lamp posts fences etc.

To say sgssaa does not work in dx9 is just false. The difference is clear on my system and 100,s of others on here that use dx9

Also, we don't set enhance the app setting, we override it. Nobody wants the aa that fsx supplies enhanced. I want the driver to take control of it - this is why AA is set unchecked in FSX.

i suggest you post this topic in the general forum and see the reaction you get.

What you suggest flys in the face of every setup guide writtenfrom nickn, avsim, Word Not Allowed, pmdg etc. and also my own testing

Sgssaa works just fine in dx9 and always has. The difference is night and day.

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Steve,

 

Using 2xSGSS in DX9 mode made a BIG difference for me when I used FSX. Texture shimmering of fences, poles, and buildings was reduced significantly. This was with 8xS AA and 16x AF.

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Why is SGSSAA not as good as SSAA? Because it does what it says on the tin, takes a sparse grid sample so it's like lowering the resolution of the starting image. Transparency is not about seeing through a clingfilm wrapper, that's opacity. DX10 and DX11 textures require Transparency supersampling because they are more complex than DX9 textures. To put it very simply, sparse grid samples come into use when the model scaling creates indeterminate pixel sizes around the edges of some objects, in FSX DX10 and DX11 P3Dv2.

 

Here's shots from the BN2 compared with and without sparse grid supersampling, it's much better to see it in the sim. On the left just supersampling, on the right sparse grid applied, FSX DX10. SGSS is not required with stock aircraft or aircraft like PMDGs 777 for example.

 

DX10SparseGrid.jpg

 

Still waiting for those settings Glenn...

 

You have them

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Steve,

 

Using 2xSGSS in DX9 mode made a BIG difference for me when I used FSX. Texture shimmering of fences, poles, and buildings was reduced significantly. This was with 8xS AA and 16x AF.

You have them

It took me less that 10minutes to try those settings on two PCs.

 

Haha, very funny. Just tried on both PCs. It makes no difference at all visually adding any ssgss value to your (or should I say NIckN) settings. Did you even try it with / without yourselves?

 

Do it now and we'll do it together hehe.

 

Sgssaa works just fine in dx9 and always has. The difference is night and day.

Show me a setting that works Glenn! I'm waiting...

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It worked for me, Steve. I don't have FSX installed anymore (and it never will be), so testing will be impossible. However, I tried it in the first place because of excessive shimmering with some wooden fences, and adding 2xSGSS made a significant difference.

 

EDIT: I never used any "Nick N" settings, or indeed any settings from anyone else.

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You guys are just posting stuff but not actually trying it. I will go step by step with you Glenn to get SGSSAA working in DX9 FSX or FSX-SE. I'm ready and poised, others at home with DX9 FSX might want to have a go, only takes a few minutes, less time than it does to post this comment.

 

 

By the way, Glenn, you mis-read me, I said 4x4 was the strongest AA in D3D9 and I did say a lower setting should be used and work up. I've read your posts about SGSSAA and they don't make any sense. Let's go through step by step TOGETHER. Beat this out once and for all.

 

I don't have FSX installed anymore

Never mind then Chris, but I'm afraid I suspect that you could have tried that transparency setting along with others and not realised it does nothing. It's not opacity, transparency is about the type of images produced in the sim, they are made by d3d10 and d3d11, not d3d9.

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FFS, this is ridiculous.

 

I HAVE SGSS AA WORKING on DX 9 in FSX

 

with 8xS and no transparency AA then I have shimmering of trees, some cockpit displays and also fences, and lamp posts.

 

With SGSS AA turned onto 2x the shimmering stops.

 

What is it you dont understand?

 

These settings have been used by 1000's of FSX DX9 users for years. I dont need to step through anything with you.

 

Just look on forums for other titles where SGSS transparency AA works just fine with other DX9 titles too.

 

Sorry Steve, but keep telling me it doesnt work and I will keep telling you it does. As does Christopher and so will 1000's of other users.

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It's quite unfair to Brian, he wants a simple standard workable setup to test the card properly, no tweaks.

 

You are using DX9, so make sure you start with a default profile and set:

Antialiasing - Behaviour Flags = Treat 'Override any' as 'App-Controlled'

Antialiasing - Mode = Enhance the application setting

Antialiasing - Setting = 2x [2x Multisampling]

 

Do that to a fresh profile Brian so we can eliminate the NI setup as causing any problems.

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I challenge you to post this in the general forum and see the response you get.

 

Many will support the use of SGSAA in DX9 on FSX using 8xS as a base AA setting and will confirm that it works


No, I said 2x2 SSAA  was not much better it terms of performance as well. 4x4 is clearly overkill


You guys are just posting stuff but not actually trying it. I will go step by step with you Glenn to get SGSSAA working in DX9 FSX or FSX-SE. I'm ready and poised, others at home with DX9 FSX might want to have a go, only takes a few minutes, less time than it does to post this comment.


By the way, Glenn, you mis-read me, I said 4x4 was the strongest AA in D3D9 and I did say a lower setting should be used and work up. I've read your posts about SGSSAA and they don't make any sense. Let's go through step by step TOGETHER. Beat this out once and for all.
 

Never mind then Chris, but I'm afraid I suspect that you could have tried that transparency setting along with others and not realised it does nothing. It's not opacity, transparency is about the type of images produced in the sim, they are made by d3d10 and d3d11, not d3d9.

 

No, I said 2x2 SSAA  was not much better it terms of performance as well. 4x4 is clearly overkill

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