Sign in to follow this  
Oliver Branaschky

Changes in NAV receiver logic?

Recommended Posts

Gentlemen,

 

not sure if this has been asked before. Does anyone notice any change since SP1d in the way frequencies are received?

 

Specifically, during approach to Cologne-Bonn EDDK runway 32R I lost the ILS signal after becoming established on localizer and glide slope. Turned out I had tuned the old frequency of 109.70 instead of the new one of 111.10, because I was using an old scenery which I had not updated or modified.

 

Seems like the NGX (now?!) uses the AIRAC data to "receive" navaids instead or - more precisely - in addition to the scenery data. That's why it suddenly picked up the ILS signal of nearby Nörvenich airbase, which according to the current AIRAC data uses 109.70 but in the default FSX scenery has no ILS at all.

 

I know that a popular turbo prop addon uses a logic like that, but didn't know the NGX did. Can anyone confirm?

 

Thanks!

 

Regards

Oliver

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

No automation in the selection of NAV frequencies in the NGX.  You must still select the correct frequency and course for your approach.  Good try blaming the wrong selection on the airplane, but you'll have to make a better case for that excuse :P

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Excuse me? I stated explicitly that it was me who tuned the old frequency. I'm not trying to blame anything on anyone. Perhaps you should read my post one more time, and this time thoroughly instead of insulting me for posing a very legitimate question.

 

Good day.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 


Excuse me? I stated explicitly that it was me who tuned the old frequency. I'm not trying to blame anything on anyone. Perhaps you should read my post one more time, and this time thoroughly instead of insulting me for posing a very legitimate question.

 

Oliver,

 

To be honest, the way in which you phrased your post was not very clear. Upon first read, I had assumed the same thing Dan did. No need to get defensive about it and lash out, though Dan probably could've worded his post a little better himself.

 

The NGX has never auto tuned nav frequencies at all. The INIT REF page will display whatever data the AIRAC shows for the selected runway/approach, but you have to manually tune it. If you tune it to Frequency A, and a navaid happens to use Frequency A in the vicinity, it will pick it up.

 

What did you see, as far as an indication goes, that showed the NGX picking up the LOC?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Kyle,

 

thank you for trying to help.

 

First, the NGX picked up the old frequency 109.70, which is the frequency in the scenery. After I was established on both LOC and G/S it suddenly picked up the ILS of Nörvenich nearby. I took over manually, continued to fly the approach and when there was time, I tuned in the new frequency 111.10 as depicted in the charts, but which is not in the scenery. The NGX had no trouble receiving that frequency.

 

Further testing today showed that in a certain distance from the airport, both frequencies are received, but as soon as you come closer, only 111.10 is received with 109.70 from Nörvenich being received.

 

So it's not a matter of my expecting it to autotune anything, this is solely about which frequency is received.

 

I'm sorry I was not clearer in my first post. Where exactly did I say I expected it to autotune, though?

 

Seriously, guys, you can't make assumptions and then condescend on someone based on that assumption. If in doubt, ask.

 

Thanks.

 

Regards,

Oliver

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 


First, the NGX picked up the old frequency 109.70, which is the frequency in the scenery. After I was established on both LOC and G/S it suddenly picked up the ILS of Nörvenich nearby. I took over manually, continued to fly the approach and when there was time, I tuned in the new frequency 111.10 as depicted in the charts, but which is not in the scenery. The NGX had no trouble receiving that frequency.

 

I'd have to see video or screenshots on this one. This isn't making any sense to me.

 

 

 


Further testing today showed that in a certain distance from the airport, both frequencies are received, but as soon as you come closer, only 111.10 is received with 109.70 from Nörvenich being received.

 

Check your PMDG SETUP> options for SIMULATION>. There's an option in there about tuning the FSX CRS. I can't remember if it corrects for anything else.

 

 

 


Where exactly did I say I expected it to autotune, though?

 

You didn't, but your narrative gave the indication that it was automatically doing something with the AIRAC data, which would imply auto-tuning to some degree.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, I'll try to make some screenshots tonight. The "SET FSX LOC CRS" setting is active, btw. I have just deactivated it for test purposes.

 

Will report back.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay, here we go. I tuned in 111.10 (new freq) into NAV1 and 109.70 (old freq) into NAV 2.

 

Here's a screenshot from farther out, with both sides showing IKEN, NAV1 with DME readout, NAV2 without DME readout:

 

to1pD9h.png

 

The second one is from closer in, both sides still tuned to the above frequencies, but NAV2 (old freq) having picked up a different signal (IWNN).

 

i3gMMgN.png

 

Notice that I was being vectored on VATSIM. That's why I'm still in LNAV/LVLCHG in the first screenshot.

 

Hope this makes it clearer.

 

Regards,

Oliver

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think I understand the question, please bear with me as I am trying.

 

The FO PFD changed from IKEN to IWNN not because that navaid was being received but because you have the IWNN frequency set in NAV 2 and PMDG uses navdata file wpNavAID.txt to connect frequency and location with station ID.  The IDENT/CRS in the PFD does come from navdata (always has to my knowledge).

 

Also, the CDI pointer for IWNN in the FO PFD is active and that is from the scenery.  The scenery navaid drives the 'pointers' but the IDENT/CRS info is from navdata.

IKEN in the file is: COLOGNE-BONN            IKEN ILSD 50.858781   7.163978111.10T
IWNN in the file is: IWNN                    IWNN ILS  50.825486   6.636972109.70T

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For those using current AIRAC databases and having issues with default FSX ILS approaches not matching up to present airport configurations, I can heartily endorse the updated default Nav Data provided by Hervé Sors at http://www.aero.sors.fr

 

These files will modify the default FSX BGLs to bring the sim's VORs and ADFs in line with real-world data, and will also automatically correct the ILS approaches at the great majority of European airports. It is a quick and easy way to add new ILSs facilities that have been built since FSX was released, and to delete obsolete ILSs that are present in FSX, but no longer exist in the real world. It does this without the need to download and install updated airport AFCAD files.

 

Hervé now also provides ILS corrections for North America and other world regions as well, but these files must be manually copied to the proper scenery folders. The European airport facility corrections auto-install as part of the FSX/P3D worldwide navdata update package.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you, Dan. What I don't understand, though, is why the scenery obviously has the new IWNN tied to Nörvenich. When I look it up in the maps menu in FSX (is it called that in the English version?), there's no ILS shown... That's something of a mystery to me, for I don't remember ever having used Hervés fix...

 

Edit: Also, how come the pointers for IKEN are driven with 111.10 set, if it's not in the scenery? Again, "maps" in FSX shows 109.70.

 

I'm confused :Confused:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Get a copy of the BGL Navaids Direct Editor by Herve Sors, Google should find it, or the link that Jim Barret provided above may lead to it.  I like it and it provides a list of all navaids in a BGL file and limited editing ability.  This may help you shed some light on what is happening.

 

FSX maps provide information for a given airport, but if there is more than one airport or more than one AFCAD for an airport then logic tends to be confusing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

FSX maps provide information for a given airport, but if there is more than one airport or more than one AFCAD for an airport then logic tends to be confusing.

 

That might well be the reason for my confusion (well, for that particular confusion, anyway... :wink: ). Will have a look at the editor Jim and you recommended. Thanks.

 

On a personal note, Dan: please accept my apologies for my "lashing out", as Kyle put it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you, and I am sorry I misread your original post.  I do that a lot more as I get older.

 

Also, there is a tool called Simple Airport Scanner that I think I found in the AVSIM library that is useful for discovering if an airport has more than one AFCAD.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello.

 

First sorry for bad English !!

 

I came to this Thread cause i got nearly  the same Problem like Oliver today....

 

On an Aproach in EDDK i get on the ILS 32R und while the Approach it changes to the Nörvenich ETNN - ILS.

 

I make the Navdata update from the Link above (i did it some months ago already) and get the AIRAC 15-06 files.

Then i checked the Data in this tool for both Airports.   Everything was fine. cologne now was on 111.10.

 

BUT:  back in the FSX EDDK was again on 109.7 and collide with the other ILS.

 

Then i Use the Debug Tool from the Naviad Update Page and find the Problem!!!!

 

My Trafic Addon "Mytraffic 2010" builds for every supported Airprot an own BGL File.   This files include a ILS Frequence ( I dont know that before. Thought thats only used for Parking Positions).    AND this BGL Files are more Prior then the defaulft FSX BGL´s.

 

Also i delete the BGL from MyTraffic.... And than Everything works fine !

 

May Oliver got the same kind of Problem!   Search for EDDK in the FSX folder and check all BGL Hits !!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi, ok guys apologies aside now, lol.  Your arguments do help a lot of guys like me learning as much as we can here, avsim.  So your discussion is very valuable, thank you all.   I fly NGX, my favorite, T7 from PMDG, of course, and also AS A318/319. This one I do struggle a bit still at this stage but I still need to do a bit of reading/learning on the manuals to always get it spot on. 

 

I have 2 questions thou;   a) I always use Nav 1 for the frequency.  What's the second one for, Nav 2?   Is this an alternative frequency as I understand from the argument?   I only use nav 1 and it works ok for me.      b) Jim Barrett advises to  download this link,  http://www.aero.sors.fr  .  I checked it, but how do you install it in FSX?  Is it under Navdata/fsx/pd3?  Will that change the iLS's in fsx's 10year old frequencies?  Do I understand it right?

 

Thanks in advance guys.

 

Cheers.

 

johngoncalves

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are 2 data sources for navdata. One is the pmdg fmc, this can be updated via navigraph or aerosoft. The second is the afcad file. This guides your aircraft using the frequency and course. If you have a default or addon airport with an afcad file sometimes it is using old data as airports change runway names and frequencies. You can use a freeware airport editor or buy Flight1 AFX to adjust the frequency yourself.

 

I am not familiar with default airports so I don't know if that download link will update all airports but you want to get the world navaids package, unzip the folder, run the exe installer, and select the region you fly or everything then run the update.

 

 

David Lee

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 


I have 2 questions thou; a) I always use Nav 1 for the frequency. What's the second one for, Nav 2? Is this an alternative frequency as I understand from the argument? I only use nav 1 and it works ok for me.

 

Two Navigation receivers are required for instrument flight. If you are just following the magenta line you'll only set Nav frequencies for the ILS but if you want to simulate actual flying then you'll use both for a variety of reasons. Disregarding the need for Nav 1 & 2 on the ILS freq., presume you are going to fly a departure out of KORD Chicago OHare heading North to BAE as your first waypoint. There are no SIDs so you don't get a magenta line to follow but there are specific requirements in DP ORD8 that you need to follow including altitude constraints at two ORD DME arcs; now you can use Nav 1 set to BAE and Nav 2 set to ORD to observe the DME to ensure you comply with ORD 8.

 

Good place to learn about instrument navigation is the Instrument Flying Handbook by the FAA and it is free here: http://www.faa.gov/regulations_policies/handbooks_manuals/

If you are new to piloting in general, be sure to get a copy of the Aeronautical Information Manual, I liked it's old name better: Airman's Information Manual. It was my bible when I was a student.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That and autoland requires that both nav receivers be tuned to the same ILS frequency.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
Sign in to follow this