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JF Fokker F27 released

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While in airspeed hold mode the autopilot takes control over the power levers

 

That answers my question above

 

.

 


JF has been notified and hopefully it will be solved soon.

 

Don't hold your breath waiting.  It's not an easy fix, in fact I wouldn't call it a bug but a deliberate decision by the developers to keep things simple (using the FSX autopilot capabilities).

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That answers my question above

 

.

 

 

Don't hold your breath waiting.  It's not an easy fix, in fact I wouldn't call it a bug but a deliberate decision by the developers to keep things simple (using the FSX autopilot capabilities).

Well, in my opinioun they should have stayad away from it entirely instead, because as it is now it is entirely unusable. Either you climb at full power or you stay level on a low power setting.

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I love the plane but I too was disappointed to find out that the "speed" hold mode was using the default FSX autothrottle to hold speed, and not adjusting pitch to do so.

 

This is what Carenado were doing on their earlier planes - even the little SR22 piston had an autothrottle! ........ It removes credibility from an otherwise great product IMHO.

 

But it's not stopping me enjoying this F27 - I just don't go near the SPEED hold mode, and I've marked the AutothrottleAvailable=1 entry in the cfg, to 0.

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I love the plane but I too was disappointed to find out that the "speed" hold mode was using the default FSX autothrottle to hold speed, and not adjusting pitch to do so.

 

This is what Carenado were doing on their earlier planes - even the little SR22 piston had an autothrottle! ........ It removes credibility from an otherwise great product IMHO.

 

But it's not stopping me enjoying this F27 - I just don't go near the SPEED hold mode, and I've marked the AutothrottleAvailable=1 entry in the cfg, to 0.

Thanks for the suggestion, does that disable it entirely so that there is no risk of accidentally activating the airspeed mode?

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I believe basic methodology for operating the Darts was always to `set and leave`.

 

Basically, full power for takeoff and go-around, one reduction to 16,000 rpm for climb, 14,200-14,500 for cruise. You wouldn't normally need to adjust the power levers in flight unless you were below the Flight Levels and you wold normally descend at 220 kts with whatever ROD you got from leaving at 14k. Expedited descents were at 12,800 to allow for higher rates for the same IAS.

 

No doubt kiwiflyer can confirm, albeit with the numbers from 748's.

 

Not really had a chance to get to grips with this bird properly, but have also noted some anomalies in the aircraft .cfg that will need to be addressed for the SP.

 

  • light.7 is currently commented // out - could this be the reason the VC lights don't work?
  • The autopilot setting does not match the manual as far as turn-on response is concerned. The manual states that engaging the AP should hold the current pitch. Climb out should be at 15 degrees but the a/p TOGA limit is too low at just 8. The .cfg setting does not use `hold default pitch or bank`. I've changed those to `0` to get correct functionality to the manual, and the TOGA FD limit to 20 to get a reasonable 10-15 degree setting, but haven't tried it out yet.
  • I've disabled the autothrottle. If it don't work right, I'd rather have manual control - on 2 occasions already, because there are no flags or lights on the a/p in the VC I've been unable to influence the power levers after inadvertently clicking on the airspeed hold ( I don't, won't and can't  use the tooltip popups due to stutttttttttering  - AH should find an alternative indicating method)
  • For some reason the [direction indicator] entry is repeated, once under the correct heading and again without. 

 

Other than these minor items that ought to have been picked up by beta testers, the only system issue I'd like to see fixed is the DME on pilot and co-pilot side being independent so that you can set NAV 1 DME on the pilot, and NAV2 on the Co-Pilot side. As there is no way to open the GPS on this bird, the developers clearly intend for it to be flown `old school` - and that makes being able to select or see both DME's a requirement.

 

This is an excellent WIP, but I do hope that AH don't get bored or pressured into a single patch-and-leave process as they've done in the past - they built the Tecnam P2006T for Wilco and even after three very necessary patches there remain issues that could and should have been fixed.

 

Looking forward to seeing how this develops!

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Just going by the post #4 video the engine sound from the VC is just totally irritating.

Reminds me of running fingernails down a blackboard.

Are the sounds the same in the final product?

 

gb.

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The sounds were substantially reworked between the beta videos and the released product. 

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I had trouble slowing this aircraft down both on the ground upon landing and in the air on descent. Tonight I discovered that I had the Speed Hold switch on the AP set to 'ON' (even though I had turned off the master AP power switch via my keyboard assigned key). Once I manually turned off the Speed Hold function on the AP I had no further trouble.

 

Note also that bringing back the High Pressure Cock levers beyond the 'OPEN' mark on the quadrant even a minute fraction stops them! I couldn't figure out why I was losing an engine after landing, so it pays to be very careful with these.

On the downside I don't like having to use Tool Tips and I think JF should think about some other method for a future patch.

 

Other than that it is an interesting aircraft.

 

John G

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Thanks for the suggestion, does that disable it entirely so that there is no risk of accidentally activating the airspeed mode?

 

Yes that's right, it does.   :smile:

 

 

The autopilot setting does not match the manual as far as turn-on response is concerned. The manual states that engaging the AP should hold the current pitch. Climb out should be at 15 degrees but the a/p TOGA limit is too low at just 8. The .cfg setting does not use `hold default pitch or bank`. I've changed those to `0` to get correct functionality to the manual, and the TOGA FD limit to 20 to get a reasonable 10-15 degree setting, but haven't tried it out yet.

 

Hi,

 

If you want the autopilot to hold pitch at the point it is turned on, (with no other vertical mode selected), then Default_Pitch_Mode should be set to '1', not 0.

 

If it is set to '0' there will be no pitch hold in FSX/P3D when the autopilot is turned on - you will only be able to adjust pitch using the yoke / trim  (eg. manual elevator control).

 

With '1' set, the aircraft will hold the current pitch, and will be adjustable (should you wish to) by using the standard FSUIPC offset commands for;

 

"AP Pitch Var Ref Inc Up",  and

"AP Pitch Var ReF Inc Dn"

 

I'm at work at the mo and don't have access to my FS PC, but have a look though to ensure that Just Flight haven't accidentally also included the lines "Set_No_Default_Pitch" within the [autopilot] section of the cfg, as this would override the '1' setting above, and mean that there is no pitch hold.

 

Also, when the default FSX/P3D autopilot is engaged with the default_pitch_mode set to '1', it doesn't use the Max_Toga level ........ (the bit that was set at 8 degrees which is the default value)....   that Toga degrees level is used purely when the FSX default Toga command is activated.

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Yes that's right, it does.   :smile:

 

 

 

Hi,

 

If you want the autopilot to hold pitch at the point it is turned on, (with no other vertical mode selected), then Default_Pitch_Mode should be set to '1', not 0.

Correct. And it isn't.

 

If it is set to '0' there will be no pitch hold in FSX/P3D when the autopilot is turned on - you will only be able to adjust pitch using the yoke / trim  (eg. manual elevator control).

Also correct. And it is. For both aircraft .cfg's.

 

With '1' set, the aircraft will hold the current pitch, and will be adjustable (should you wish to) by using the standard FSUIPC offset commands for;

 

"AP Pitch Var Ref Inc Up",  and

"AP Pitch Var ReF Inc Dn"

 

I'm at work at the mo and don't have access to my FS PC, but have a look though to ensure that Just Flight haven't accidentally also included the lines "Set_No_Default_Pitch" within the [autopilot] section of the cfg, as this would override the '1' setting above, and mean that there is no pitch hold.

They have. So no accident. Error.

 

Also, when the default FSX/P3D autopilot is engaged with the default_pitch_mode set to '1', it doesn't use the Max_Toga level ........ (the bit that was set at 8 degrees which is the default value)....   that Toga degrees level is used purely when the FSX default Toga command is activated.

Also correct. And SOP on an aircraft with TO/GA mode on the FD is to engage it as part of normal TO as it gives the director bars a common approach for normal operations. The versions of the F27 simulated here all share the same FD.

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< snipped >

 

 

Perhaps I misread your post then because I thought you'd said that you were changing the '1' flags to '0' to get pitch hold working.

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Perhaps I misread your post then because I thought you'd said that you were changing the '1' flags to '0' to get pitch hold working.

 

I followed the convention from the SDK

 

https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/cc526949.aspx#mozTocId942782

 

By default the sections include BOTH use no_default_pitch and use_no_default_bank as well as default_pitch_mode and default_bank_mode. 

 

Unnecessary for the type of A/P simulated (probably a result of beta testing or FDE development) so I removed the former pair  (which I had set to `0`) and instead changed the latter from `0` to `1`.

 

This leaves only the following two lines for initial pitch and bank mode as follows: 

default_pitch_mode=1 (current pitch angle)

 

default_bank_mode=1 (wing level hold)
 
Or the full section now looking like this
 
[autopilot]
autopilot_available=1
flight_director_available=1
default_vertical_speed=700.000000
autothrottle_available=0
autothrottle_arming_required=0
autothrottle_max_rpm=105
pitch_takeoff_ga=10.000
autoland_available=0
max_pitch=20.000000
max_pitch_acceleration=1.000000
max_pitch_velocity_lo_alt=2.000000
max_pitch_velocity_hi_alt=1.500000
max_pitch_velocity_lo_alt_breakpoint=20000.000000
max_pitch_velocity_hi_alt_breakpoint=28000.000000
max_bank=25.000000
max_bank_acceleration=1.800000
max_bank_velocity=3.000000
max_throttle_rate=0.100000
nav_proportional_control=9.000000
nav_integrator_control=0.250000
nav_derivative_control=0.000000
nav_integrator_boundary=2.500000
nav_derivative_boundary=0.000000
gs_proportional_control=9.520000
gs_integrator_control=0.260000
gs_derivative_control=0.000000
gs_integrator_boundary=0.700000
gs_derivative_boundary=0.000000
yaw_damper_gain=1.000000
autothrottle_takeoff_ga=0
default_pitch_mode=1
default_bank_mode=1
 
While I was in there I also changed the commented line in vc lighting to 
 
[LIGHTS]
//Types: 1=beacon, 2=strobe, 3=navigation, 4=cockpit
light.0 = 3,   0.84, -48.00,  5.50, fx_navred ,
light.1 = 3,   0.84,  48.00,  5.50, fx_navgre ,
light.2 = 3, -43.29,   0.00,  1.00, fx_navwhi ,
light.3 = 1, -36.23,   0.00, 20.63, fx_beacon ,
light.4 = 1,  1.51,   0.00, -4.20, fx_beacon ,
light.5 = 1, -36.23,   0.00, 20.63, fx_navred ,
light.6 = 1,  1.51,   0.00, -4.20, fx_navred ,
light.7 = 4,  23.12,  -1.47,  2.00, fx_vclight, //was previously at front
light.8 = 2,   0.84, -47.83,  5.50, fx_strobe ,
light.9 = 2,   0.84,  47.83,  5.50, fx_strobe ,
light.10 = 5,   2.84, -22.63,  4.70, fx_landing ,
light.11 = 5,   2.84,  22.63,  4.70, fx_landing ,
 
 
 
For anything other than these basic changes, I expect the developer to patch.

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Unnecessary for the type of A/P simulated (probably a result of beta testing or FDE development

 

Not necessarily so.  The S.E.P.3 (?) autopilot has three switches that let you independently disable the elevator, aileron and rudder servos giving you manual stick control in those axes.  If these are modelled (or were intended to be modelled), you must have the default_pitch_mode (and default_bank_mode) set to 0.

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Nice video - nice plane!   Very reminiscent of Rick Piper's freeware HS748, which also has most of the things he raves over, like water-meth, fuel trimming and a quirky autopilot (I'll concede that it's not as pretty though).

 

For someone who has it, does the IAS mode on the autopilot work?

 

The HS748 was one of my most loved planes! Too bad there´s no new version of it arround. 

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Not sure but i think there is no reverse on this aircraft......

I dont think Darts had reverse did they?

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I dont think Darts had reverse did they?

The HS 748 has no reverse as well.

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Seems to me that the cheap price is for buyers beta testing?

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Seems to me that the cheap price is for buyers beta testing?

You may well have a point there. I'm disappointed with the night-time VC lighting. Can hardly see anything. Unless this aircraft in real-life was only meant to fly in daylight?

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Not necessarily so.  The S.E.P.3 (?) autopilot has three switches that let you independently disable the elevator, aileron and rudder servos giving you manual stick control in those axes.  If these are modelled (or were intended to be modelled), you must have the default_pitch_mode (and default_bank_mode) set to 0.

 

But not in this model. The developers have not modelled the elevator, aileron and rudder servos. Which is why the entries may be removed. At least as a stopgap until some better service pack or patch comes along, as the a/p is not currently modelled well, even for one of this vintage. It doesn't take too much away from the aircraft as it hand flies really well, so I tend to only use it for straight and level flight, beam tracking and ILS approaches. 

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Does this aircraft have a 'cold and dark' state?

 

The tutorial flight comes as a ready to load flight, and that starts cold and dark on stand at Norwich.

Eugene 

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The tutorial flight comes as a ready to load flight, and that starts cold and dark on stand at Norwich.

Eugene 

 

Thanks...  What about default panel state?  I can't find anything to change the loading state.

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The HS748 was one of my most loved planes! Too bad there´s no new version of it arround.

 

I would be quite happy taking Rick's HS748, and adding a high quality VC to it.

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