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pizman82

Problem with DUAL-ILS Frequence for ONE Runway.

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Hello Guys.

First sorry for my bad english.   Hope you understand and can help !

 

Today i made a Trip to Nürnberg/Germany (EDDN)

 

My Scenery is up to date and include the ILS  INUW 109.10    and the LOCY  INUY 111.75

Also there are TWO  ILS  for Runway 28 !!

 

Problem:

The FMC shows me the Frequency 111.75 for BOTH Aproaches (ILS28 and LOCY28)

 

If i understand the Navigraph Support Forum correct then the Problem is in the PMDG Software.

Is it right that PMDG FMC´s are not be able to work with TWO ILS for ONE Runway ???

 

By the Way.   I Know that i can change the Frequence by myself ( in the 777 too by the FMC Manual entry)

My question is just for basic information why that not work corect.

 

 

Another OffTopic thing.....

While another Bugreport from me to Navigraph they told me about an "BUG" in the PMDG FMC.

There is apparently no way to told the PMDG FMC the command " Speed xxx kn at or below / above" with the STARS   (A Manualy entry work but NOT in SID/STAR)

 

In this way my question.   Do you think in a future Servicepack or in a new Addon you advance the FMC to work with this commands too ??

 

I got the PMDG 737ng and the 777 and think that are the absolutly best Planes that i ever used in the FSX.  But i´m a little bit sad, that this two things work in other crappy Addons but NOT in the PMDG !

 

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The FMC shows me the Frequency 111.75 for BOTH Aproaches (ILS28 and LOCY28)

I can't check what is in the FMC right now but looking at Vatsim Germany at this link - http://www.vacc-sag.org/airport/EDDN I see only one ILS Approach for Rwy 28.

 

The Vatsim charts indicate the following for Rwy 28.

 

(1) VOR/DME Rwy 28 113.10

(2) LOC Y Rwy 28 111.75

(3) ILS CAT II and III or LOC Z Rwy 28 109.10.

 

Navigraph - I wouldn't trust any of their replies to questions in their forums. I don't even bother to post there anymore. Their answers are garbage.

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Sorry.  may my first Posting was a little confusing because my bad english :-)   I will try to specify......

 

 

(2) LOC Y Rwy 28 111.75
(3) ILS CAT II and III or LOC Z Rwy 28 109.10.

 

Thats what i mean.   I called the LOC Y  mistakenly as a ILS but i mean the LOC.

***

 

When i choose a aproache in the FMC for Runway 28 i got this options   ILS   &  LOC-Y....  But in both ways the FMC gives me the Frequency 111.75

 

I think the same will happend if there are 2 ILS for a runway  (like on 07L in EDDF Frankfurth Intl.)   But in this case most peaple don´t Realize it cause the "wrong" ILS works fine too.  

In EDDN  i found this "Bug" because theres only a LOC in the decided ILS Aproach and without glidescope i see there is something wrong !

 

 

The question is already the same.....    Is it correct that the PMDG FMC only understand ONE Frequeny per Runway and can´t handle a Situation like i suscribe above ??

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Currently the NGX and I believe the T7 also cannot handle the dual ILS fequencies. Confirmed on a PMDG ticket more than 18 months ago following a discussion on Navigraph!

 

Peter, re-ordering the line entries so the ILS is listed first should be a useable workaround, again posted on the Navigraph forum.

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Agree with Stephen.  If you look in the NAVDATA file wpNavAPT.txt you'll note that each airport has an entry for each runway at that airport, and the runway entry includes ILS data such as course and frequency.  This format does not work well with your situation at EDDN:

NURNBERG                EDDN28 08858277 49.496925  11.096025111.7527701046
NURNBERG                EDDN28 08858277 49.496925  11.096025109.1027701046

Notice Navigraph has provided two entries for the ILS and LOC.... which one to use?  There is no way for the FMS to know which one is the ILS and which one is the LOC.  Therefore, the PMDG product will use the first entry it encounters and ignore the second.  The best thing to do is to ask Navigraph to order the ILS before the LOC... they've done that on requests before.  Then you manually select the LOC when that is desired.

 

The speed issue is not a bug, the syntax for the SIDSTAR macro language never included a conditional speed parameter and PMDG didn't create the syntax and has not modified how it is interpreted.  It is real easy to modify the speed value on the LEGS page to accommodate a constraint such as 210B for at or below 210 KIAS.

 

You have valid points but PMDG is not going to modify the navdata file syntax.  We are all hoping that one day they find a reasonably priced source for ARINC424 navdata and we move forward with more realistic navigation database.  The navdata syntax has served us well but it's obsolete.

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Hi again.

 

At first thank you for youre support !

 

I have to underline that i think the PMDG Planes are the BEST products that can buyed for the FSX.   I don´t want to decry youre work and youre product !

I´m hopefull that the next PMDG Planes (or servicepacks for the existing ones) include a FMC that support the things suscribe above.

 

 

I was just a little bit angry cause....

 

I read in the Navigraph Support forum that the IFLY products support the Speed Parameters and Support Dual Freq.

 

That was strange to me that a poor and not so good SIM like the IFly supoort something that the PMDG is not working with.

 

But staying cool....  I´m allready happy with my PMDG Boeings !

 

Have a nice Day !!!

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That was strange to me that a poor and not so good SIM like the IFly supoort something that the PMDG is not working with.

 

True.  I've tried to add some semantic changes but I don't think PMDG wants to create a situation where different products use different versions of navdata.  Any changes to the syntax would impact NG, NGX, JS41, MD11 and 777... just not worth the cost unless they can update to a modern navigation database.  Until then we just have to put up with the minor inconvenience of manual workarounds.

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I Think about this thing again.....

 

It´s understandable that PMDG don´t want to make different files for there products.  But there are Patches and Servicepacks already existing for the older planes.  It should be no big problem to insert a modifyed FMC into the old planes by another SP..

 

Now I need to say i´m not a Computer Freak and have no good information about programming.

But it looks like it is not a so big problem to insert that functions into the existing programm.

 

 

The Speed issue looks verry easy.   The FMC already can work with "at or above/below commands in altitudes (By SID/STAR) .  Secundary the FMC can work with Above/below Speedcommands if i put it manualy into the LEG page.    For an amateur like me it looks like a small modification to combine this two things !

 

 

The other project with the double freq  looks even not difficult.

 

What will happen if you rename the second Runway Entry in a fictional runway like 28A.

Then the second Aproach uses not 28 (with the fixed Navaid). It use the fictional 28A with the other Navaid !

The Only work what PMDG have to do is now to make the fictional Runway unvisible in the FMC.  

The Runway 28A need to be shown in the PERF Page as 28. 

AND  In the Runwaylist at DEP/APR  the Entry for 28 should shown All Aproaches for 28 and the fictional 28A all in one.

 

Again.  As a Computer Amateur maby it looks easyer like it is in reality.  But perhaps this is a good Way to fix that Problems with less expense.

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I'm afraid most would rather see the PMDG experts busy on things like DC-6 for XPlane or the 747v2, and I still want the Woodpigeon.  Priorities.  The issues you discuss are very easy to work around manually.

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