MU-2 Elevator Trim Tabs

[mjrhealth 822]

Me too, and as capceo said, they wonder why so many developers are running away. Its just to hard to please anyone these days. I recon developers should be given Flak jackets and helmets.

[Flysimware 647]

 

 

When you do your Video look at the plane from the outside, trim the plane for level flight and have a look at the trim tabs, when you notice that there all the way up for just a little bit of input you will see that the animation is off. 

 

 

I hope you folks enjoy your new GPU cart in the months to come, I believe my dealings with all of this have Officially ended. 

 

The trim indicator in the cockpit only will show the trim going up. There is no down pointer as it stops at level flight. All aircraft trim positions vary depending on weight configuration and speed. The more speed the more down trim you will need. I just trimmed out level flight at 170 knots and the trim tab for the elevator is slightly down. Not fully up as you claim. If it was full up the aircraft would full nose up and stall. This trim tab is made like all of my other aircraft i have made in the past 7 years and never once have i heard of any issues until now a few customer are confused and want to publicly make us look bad.

 

When you paid 40 dollars there was no mention of 5 blades and i will choose what upgrades to do. Did you know that to add a 3rd set of blades is not just model new ones. I have coding in the aircraft option panel with graphics for 2 types of blades and coding in the internal model to show the correct blades and to add a 3rd set would be very difficult and way too much time as it's better to design options like these from the beginning of the project.

 

98% of my customers are hooked on the MU and our other products and don't complain about minor issues. Which in my eyes you could keep working on 1 project for years and still never be fully finished as there is no such thing. Like i said earlier we can't update our partners stores for every bug or new option we add. So i work a hard 30 days on every product from the release date to get everything fixed as software always has hidden issues that may be found later by a customer or beta members. So once we finished and there were no more emails or posts on issues i moved on to the next project and collect issues for a late update which is coming soon.

 

Many customer will enjoy the new GPU as i find many users lose battery power while doing system checks. So this will be more helpful than a eye candy prop that will not change the effects in flight. 

 

And if you are not happy and post that your done why are you here talking to us?

Thank god I have better things to do than go to forums and complain about things so trivial.. 

 

Exactly my thoughts Warbirds and you wonder why i told Joe i do not like forums and told him this would be your full time job. 

But i do find it handy when the users stay on topic and we work it out. As a single developer you will find i make more updates than larger Company's that still have major bugs to this day!

Me too, and as capceo said, they wonder why so many developers are running away. Its just to hard to please anyone these days. I recon developers should be given Flak jackets and helmets.

 

 LOL, I have never had this issue where the developer get a bunch of crap until this post opened and i have been developing for over 10 years.

 

Rather than merely repeating a previous post, which is insulting, please actually read what your customers are telling you, explore the assertion and deal with it directly. Frankly, this adversarial attitude against the customer is really getting old. Your real problem is with the development and beta team.

 

Putting it politely, physical results demonstrate inconsistency with your own assertions.

 

This level of support is not what I paid for. First and definitely last Flysimware purchase. 

 

I re posted the 4 types of trim tabs because you guys keeps saying it works backwards. I did not re post the same post. There is a difference. The MU uses trim tabs and the posts tell you how they work. They are not antiservos or balance tabs.

 

So what support do you want Louis. Someone to hold your hand while we tell you how trim tabs work. I re posted the 4 types so that you know there is nothing to fix. Case closed!

[N405GJ 36]

Hmm, maybe this is why Carenado do not have a dedicated customer support forum, or have people willing to address issues as they arise. After all, we know how perfectly their products perform at release, or even several patches in.

[louisdecoolste 12]

What is the refund policy for this `company` ? 

[warbirds 555]

I must have got into the wrong forum. I thought this was Avsim but I somehow got into the "trash the developers" forum instead.

[N405GJ 36]

What is the refund policy for this `company` ?

 

As with just about every developer, your answer is less than 30 seconds of research away.

 

http://www.flysimware.com/FLYSTORE_2015/en/content/1-Downloads

 

Louis, I don't understand your hostility. On almost every other thread you are involved in, you come across as friendly, and helpful. I don't see you acting like this in other developers forums. I truly understand the desire, and passion, to have a perfect aircraft. Personally, I was not involved in the development of the MU. I was a customer, just like you. But when I found room for improvement, I reached out to Mark with my input. We developed a rapport of sorts. And now, I'm heavily involved in the next project. If you are truly unhappy, vote with your wallet. Just as I do with all Carenado products. But in Mark, and FSW, I have found a developer that appreciates CONSTRUCTIVE critisism. And this has allowed me to help him in turn, provide a better product.

 

Developers, and people in general, do not react well to your kind of attitude. I sincerely hope this is not how you talk to people in the real world. Please try to show some semblance of human decency when you talk to others. As others have stated, it's your kind of talk that drives people away from developing. To sum this all up, if you are not happy, do not buy another FSW product. And we will be ok with that. You can't make everyone happy all the time. I personally have bought several products from other devs that don't live up to my expectations. But, as an informed buyer, I am aware of the policies. I wish you the best of luck, and hope you find what you are looking for from another developer.

 

You know, sometimes it's ok to fire the customer, not the employee. Businesses do this everyday.

[louisdecoolste 12]

My hostility is nothing of the sort. On numerous occasions I have defended this development team and their products as I had hoped they would rise above the mediocrity that consumes most of this simulation market. Originally it looked like they would. Patches and quick fixes, customer engagement and a feedback loop that imbued the subsequent fixes. Unlike Carenado.

 

Then that just all stopped - about the time the Lear was announced. And since then it's been excuses and abuses, not positive contribution and response to feedback. And I don't mean from me - I never raised the issue of the trim tabs. I never raised the issue of the Garrett engine modelling. I never raised the issue of customer support through this forum.Quite the opposite in fact, if the developer actually bothers to read the topics they are replying to.

But each has caused me to consider whether I'd actually made the right purchase decision. Clearly, as continued posts demonstrate, others feel more strongly about it than I. How many customers do you intend to 'fire' before you realise we are not the problem  ?

 

Scroll forward to today and I am am somehow blamed for all the failings of this development pair (and frankly, as the A2A team only consists of a handful of people, Real Air is just two, you should pick your comparison facts with more care). I have persistently defended the Mu-2 against what I regarded as unjustified criticism, but frankly, in this and other topics the true underlying nature of the developers is now coming out, and frankly it's unacceptable.

 

And sadly it's a trap I set. Under their own rules FSW cannot 'fire' a customer. Their own terms dictate that. Therefore as I am unable to get a refund on the basis that  

 

 

There are no returns on any digital software products from Flysimware. All sales are final.

 

I am stuck with it. And it with me. When sales are 'final', so is the customer relationship entitlement. We want the product we were sold. And the support that goes with it.

• Custom coding for real World gauges and animations

• Custom coding for 2 Garrett TPE331 turboprop engines and sounds for the most realistic Garrett simulation ever produced. Now known as Honeywell 331 engines! This is a geared drive engine unlike the common turboprop you find in a King Air aircraft.

So, I don't need any contribution from you except for a simple replies to the following questions:

When are the trim tabs going to be corrected ?

When is the engine modelling going to actually meet the advertising claims ?

When is the customer support going to revert to being constructive and not adversarial ?

 

If you cannot reply with detailed answers then you are probably best not replying at all. No-one wants to talk to the monkey when the organ grinder is the one cranking the handle. No-one wants another Carenado.

[Flysimware 647]

Seems your wrong Louis. There is nobody complaining but you and 1 other. I just got an email from a customer who bought the MU yesterday after reading this post he said he is blown away as he is a real world pilot. 

 

Glad to hear that you have supported us in the past. So let's get to the bottom of the issue. You said that all development stopped after 30 days from release or the announcement of the Lear. This is normal. I have already told you that my partners stores do not want updates for every little options we add or bug we find. They know that during the first month we may update 3 or 4 times. I updated my store 7 times and 4 for the other stores ending on rev 1.7 This was after all reports came in on issues and everyone was happy. So please stop telling me how i should run my business. Your 40 dollars means i keep working on the MU for no reason and upset my partners, I don't think so. I also told you we always do an update 4 months later in case we missed something or want to add new features. This is how i do every project and don't plan on changing. -----------So there is no reason to complain on why there is no updates for the MU at the moment as none are needed including this topic post and the trim tabs are standard trim tabs and they are modeled correctly.

 

Actually we do refunds from time to time due to the customer not being able to install the product or able to use the product. This is rare. But our policy that all sales are final is something that all software Company's do for a reason. The customer can copy the files and then return their CD or if it's downloaded they really can't return the product. Just wanted to let you know since i don't want to hear anymore on this question. And your insults are just getting worse.

 

So Louis why are you complaining? I still see no reason for any complaints!

I respect you as a customer but not happy with your posts. If the product had issues i would be receiving emails and i would be fixing it. I have nothing to fix so please be on my side or take a hike and leave this post as you got reported to Avsim by another member yesterday. Avsim users are reading this post and telling me that you have nothing to complain about and they do not like this kind of postings on Avsim. I am not mad but your going to make yourself look bad and lose your Avsim account so please just stop posting or apologise as this is not right.

[Glynn 405]

 

 

Then that just all stopped - about the time the Lear was announced.

 

No louisdecoolste, it all stopped just around the time you decided to get on the case.

 

You alone will be the reason this developer eventually leaves these forums and will ruin the interaction with the Dev team that the those of us that are happy with the products currently enjoy.

 

Please just give it a rest.

[JohnM 0]

I just trimmed out level flight at 170 knots and the trim tab for the elevator is slightly down. Not fully up as you claim. If it was full up the aircraft would full nose up and stall.

 

 

In real life, if the trim tab is all the way up, the aircraft would in fact want to nose-dive, NOT "nose up and stall".

 

Having said that, I still think the Flysimware MU-2 is an excellent add-on. It is a very enjoyable aircraft to fly, the subject matter is interesting and overall well executed. I especially like the virtual cockpit, which is very nicely modeled. All proportions of the cockpit and instrument panel look like the real thing. I can definitely recommend the Flysimware MU-2 to anyone that likes this hobby.

 

 

[Flysimware 647]

I did some more research and everyone is correct that i am creating my animation wrong.

 

I always thought they work like aileron trim tabs and this deflects the wind not the aileron itself. And my Lear has balance tabs on both sides and only 1 trim tab located only on the left side. So this tab does all the work without moving the control surface. And this is why i always thought the rudder and elevator trim tabs work the same way.

 

I never thought a small tab could actually make the larger control surface deflect against the wind and actually hold. To me the larger area would have more deflection than the trim tab surface deflection. I grew up making RC planes and trim was always adjusting the main control surface. So i do admit i see how i have the animation wrong since the linkage is only connected to the trim tab. But maybe because it's at the trailing edge this gives it enough force to hold the deflection. I wish the SDK would have designed the coding to move the large surface in their codes as this will take an extra animation linkage connected to the control surface even though the real aircraft would have no linkage.

 

I have added this to my list for the next update coming in about 3 or 4 weeks. 

 

 

I did a test on my Lear rudder tonight and found that reversing the tab is fine. But if i want to show the control surface animation deflecting it causes the rudder to travel beyond the limit i designed and does not look correct when you move the rudder to full max right or left. Again i am not sure how the trim tab is causing the main control surface to move since it's linked to the rudder pedals. So i could use some suggestions on what to do. Right now i can only reverse the direction of the tab. But making the main surface move when it's linked to a control linkage makes no sense to me and causes the issue i just mentioned.

[louisdecoolste 12]

An apology would be appreciated.

 

Customers are not always right, but when they are it is only polite to withdraw criticism, replace it with thanks, then carry on to resolution. 

[LAdamson 240]

 

 

I always thought they work like aileron trim tabs and this deflects the wind not the aileron itself. And my Lear has balance tabs on both sides and only 1 trim tab located only on the left side. So this tab does all the work without moving the control surface. And this is why i always thought the rudder and elevator trim tabs work the same way.
 
I never thought a small tab could actually make the larger control surface deflect against the wind and actually hold. To me the larger area would have more deflection than the trim tab surface deflection.

 

A trim tab on an aileron, will work just like the one the elevator, as long as the aileron surface is free to move. With the MU2, the small aileron tabs are mounted on the flaps, which are in fixed positions. In that case, they deflect the wind themselves.  My plane, a Van's RV had one 1*6" aileron trim tab on the right wing. It could easily deflect both ailerons, which move opposite of the tab.................just like the correct pics of an elevator tab.  As long as a control surface is free to easily  move, those little tabs, will always move the larger surface in the opposite direction. Tabs have actually been used, to move the whole aileron, instead of the aileron being connected directly to the yoke. 

[louisdecoolste 12]

As was described very early on in this sorry saga, trim tabs are force multipliers/de-multipliers and should not be regarded as control surfaces. They act upon the control surface.

 

However, the issue with FSX - and I guess with P3D and its inherited code - is that in the virtual world, trim tabs are defined as an additional control surface, adding to or taking away from the apparent control surface movement. The best explanation for all this is a long-standing summary by Dirks Software of FS Force fame, where it also relates to the tangible difference between real world trim and FSX trim

http://www.fs-force.com/help2/trim_system.htm

 

As the developer posts about this very effect in #41 the advice is to ignore the control surface movement and focus on the animation of the trim tab. After that, everything else should sort itself out. It isn't for Flysimware or any addon developer to correct the core code or the correct choices made by the sim developers to accommodate that standard controller type - the spring-loaded stick or yoke.

[Flysimware 647]

When i was talking about control surfaces i was talking about the actual elevator, rudder or aileron not the tabs. So since FSX can't move the control surface and only the tab it seems to me to not animate the tab at all. Because it will look strange if it does not move the control surface and only moves the tab. 

 

Thanks for letting me know that the aileron works the same way even if you only have 1 tab as it would move both control surfaces.

 

So the solution until FSX makes the trim tabs move the control surface is to not animate the tabs at all!

 

I do want to apologize for stating that there is nothing wrong with our trim tabs as i do have them animating backwards!