That's really impressive how you guys figured out that cipher string - well done! Thanks for the investigation - haven't been online in quite a while and was waiting for SB3 to get back into it - could have been tempted to try this had the Spyware nature of it not been discovered.

Sounds like a bunch of noses are out of joint. Bottom line to me is does this software work or not? If it does why is vatsim and ivao punishing their pilots for the blatant stupidity of the squawkwin developers? You cant tell me that with the computer literate bunch we have in our community that it wouldnt be a simple thing to get rid of that spyware, if the software worked I,m sure it would,nt be long before someone figured a way to remove it. I'll bet most of us run things like adaware or spybot or trojan killers because we've come to expect these things from the internet, does it mean we never go onto it? It's sad this kind of thing has invaded our community,but has vatsim put as much effort into examing the program itself. I wonder if SB3 was,nt as far along as it is or vatsim was'nt interested in it, if they would have made as much of a fuss.

To be honest, I've not read the report. But everyone says it is good, and AVSIM is staking itself on it...good enough for me.I have read the entire thread for most part

Wow ... I'm glad you aren't on the Board of Governors. :)Why should we accept software that we have to FIX, or worse, PREVENT from taking potentially sensitive information it doesn't need, just so we can use it? Would you accept a gift from a total stranger if he said "what's in this giftwrapped box is something you'll REALLY love ... trust me! You just have to figure out how to disarm the bomb that might explode. Have fun!"Okay, extreme example, but it makes my point.

Really, I'll bet your using WinXp and correct me if I'm wrong but I could swear I removed some spyware [Alexa] from it before I even installed anything else onto it. And it's not likely that most people have only programs that contained no adware, or spyware on their computers, that they didnt have to remove. According to your line of reasoning you dont have much on your computer

I haven't and wouldn't claim to have a computer free of spyware. I *can* however claim to having never willingly installed spyware.

Plus, if VATSIM or IVAO were to approve the software as-is, that might put them into a position of having legal liability with regards to the program providing passwords (plus who the hell knows what else, I haven't heard that anybody has done a more complete scan of the program, who has an arms-length relationship with the developers.)Greg Phelan

>Really, I'll bet your using WinXp and correct me if I'm>wrong but I could swear I removed some spyware [Alexa] from>it before I even installed anything else onto it. And it's not>likely that most people have only programs that contained no>adware, or spyware on their computers, that they didnt have to>remove. According to your line of reasoning you dont have much>on your computerThe stuff that sqwkanwin does (honest mistake or not) cannot be lumped together with 'common spyware' such as Alexa (which I don't think comes with XP preinstalled!) As 'undesirable' as stuff like Alexa is, it only reports aggregated statistics; it does not identify individuals. (Even so, for stuff like Alexa, as long as people understand what they're getting into, that's fine.)Sqwackwin does something that is quite different, and possibly even illegal. It retrieves passwords and moves it somewhere else. If FS' multiplayer facility were a online bank account transaction facility instead, you can see the implications. It's really very serious (the principal, and not really the actual harm done to people in this particular instance.)

First of all I want to apologize I didnt mean to sound like a jerk. I tend to be a little unreasonable when people tell me what I can and cant do. I dont condone what the developers did and never would. You make an excellent point in your last analogy about the bank, and your absolutely right thanks! Once again my apologys to Vatsim and to R Carlson for being so short with them

>Oh I never knew that.>>Matt can you verify in the latest release that they have>indeed removed this 'feature'?Just because they found one hidden feature in the network behaviour of the software doesnt mean it couldnt do something else nasty. When you run a binary program and you dont have access to the source code, there is no way you can figure out everything it does. So how could one "verify" it is clean? There is no legitimate reason to collect your password for any purpose ever. Those who might need the information (to debug vatsim network etc) for legitimate reasons can access your account information from within vatsim anyway, they dont need your password for that. Would you want your credit card data transmitted to someone for debugging purposes? And do you know for sure squawkwin doesnt do that? :)Stay away from it, seriously.//Tuomas

Oh no offense taken at all ... I didn't think you were short with me, just a very different opinion which compelled me to respond. No worries!

Unfortunately, with so many different sites asking us to log in these days, it's very common for people to use the same password for many different sites.About a year ago I tried to log on to AOL, and was blocked. It said my acount was suspended. A quick call to AOL found that I was suspended because my sons screenname had been used to send spam. Talking to him we found out that he had signed up to a "new skateboarding magazine" webpage, and had used the same password to register there as he uses for AOL. Sometime during the night they logged on to his AOL account and sent thousands of emails from it.AOL opened it back up for us no problem, and I gave my son a quick "security 101".Richard

...and their answers are truly disappointing. Hardly seen that sort of audacity from a developer/s before (apart from the infamous few).And obvious indications on intent to mislead their users. More like high school computer whizs rather than computer science PhD holders like they claimed their team consist of...

I've allways been around, and I hope to come back some day if I can think of something to program. :-) Thinking back about the good old days, I start to feel really old, I'm already approaching my 30's :-zhelpLove to come to Denver, but I still need to overcome my fear of holidays. :-badteeth Actually I haven't been on holiday for 5 years.;( But, I'm sure I will be around sometime. :7

Sorry to hear that SBRelay and SB2 doesn't work on your computer - but this has nothing to do with the point here. Letting other people run software on your network is not a thing your do with your eyes closed - I take it you don't let anyone install programs, which you don't know anything about, on your personal computer? Well, this is just the same. So it is very approbiate for VATSIM/IVAO etc. to ask for the code (naturally in confidence). The Sunteam doesn't trust VATSIM to look at their code - why should Vatsim then trust the Sunteam? I would hate to have my online experience ruined by software, which might close down the VATSIM servers due to faults in the code. So I totally accept the Vatsim/IVAO and other organizations, which provide the network, must make sure the programs work correctly before allowing it to be run on their servers. Luckily you are not the one to give permission to run SquawkWin on the Vatsim servers, because I very strongly believe, that if anyone, who made a "nice" program to help doing your online fs experience a little better, got access to the servers, then you would in no time have no network. Not because the people making these program are "evil" guys, but simply because most programs contain errors (face it - when do you get an errorfree program from eg. Microsoft?) or small deviations from the way "your" networkprotcol are put together - this will sqrew thing up, maybe not now, but when user number 1204 logged on ...I hope Squawbox 3 will be released soon, but untill then - yoursTorben AndersenVatsim861112