I've been doing a bunch of KEGE -> KDEN flights lately and noticed that in some cases, RC wants me to be at an altitude that would most certainly kill me and everyone on board due to terrain. I've had to slow my descent (and sometimes bust the 30nm restrictions) to avoid mountains. Does RC take any of this into account when giving descent instructions?

Only if you select NOTAMS for the relevant airport. Select Controller Info and tick the NOTAMS option for the relevant airport.

 

You will receive descent instructions with "if able" added.

NOTAMS does not make the RC crossing restrictions at 11,000 or 12,000 at 40 nm out flexible. Everything else is.

 

Were you following the POWDER EIGHT STAR? You're at about 14000 until 40 nm out as I interpret it. You then have to rapidly drop.

 

RC uses a weighted average of the MSA altitudes in the quadrants surrounding the airport. The average final approach interecept is calculated from these. This value is not direction dependent.

 

I don't use the FS maps. I have advised some people to use the Plan-G application freeware. You can load your flightplan into it. I do not recall if Plan-G self registers with FSUIPC. Among the data points pulled from your FSX or FS9 scenery it if you use a third party reccommended data source may show you peak terrain elevation points. You can lock your aircraft symbol on the topo map to your aircraft position to give you some guidance.

 

http://www.tasoftware.co.uk/

 

I get current terminal approach data from the FAA charts at flightaware.com (free). These ILS or RADAR/GPS IAPs, DPs, and STARs are quite handy. If you have a display space available you can download all of the charts in one .pdf or just bring up the appoach IAP in that extra view once RC assigns the runway. The other option is the payware EFB application (which I don't have). A third option is to have a payware pop-up terrain gauge.

 

It appears that most approaches from the west fly you east of the airport and you descend in that pattern.

 

Here's a quick route (I used a high cruise a B737 which you probably would not use) planned in part using auto-route:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/i375mf874akpn6x/FSB%20KEGE%20KDEN.jpg?dl=0

 

It's jagged to keep you altitude safe.

Here's the KEGE-KDEN from my previous reply the flight path as shown on Plan-G:

 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/3d8tlqa7opt227p/PlanG%20KEGE-KDEN.jpg?dl=0

 

Note how the DP and STAR follows the lower obstruction routes.

I typically fly the RPA4929 scheduled flight route: GYPSM5 RLG TOMSN6 which diverts north over the lower part of the range before coming back down on the other side.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/saujko9j4k5z03h/KEGE-KDEN%20via%20TOMSN%20w%20Range%20Rings.jpg?dl=0

 

I put range rings at 20 nm out and 40 nm out from the center of KDEN. Vectoring would start at about 35 nm out. On the RC Controller Page in the MSA box about 1,000 feet higher than the current entry. This will raise the glide slope intercept altutude. I don't know if that wiill stick with the permanent data. It is in the yellow map area and your descent should be above those green obstacle heights. Pretty close to the 12,000 foot crossing restriction. I set the cruise at 23,000 feet per the latest filed plan of that Republic plan on Friday. Saturday was cancelled.

 

See how that works.

I'll give that a try and report back. I did another flight with NOTAMS enabled for both fields and was at least able to get ATC from barking at me if I missed altitude restrictions. ('When able' is my friend!)

Ron:  I have viewed this post and am experiencing the following:  On a sim of an actual A320 UAL 525 KSFO-KLAX flight with SID SSTIK1 and STAR SADDE6, just prior to DERBB, I receive several RC ATC descent instructions and follow each to include the last of them: "Pilot's Discretion D&M 12000 and need you level within 30 miles or less", having set the descent rate to arrive at FIM (30 miles) level.  I checked the UAL 525'S actual latest descent by location and matched them to RC's instruction, which is not too far off.   After landing, I receive the critique of having busted the altitude restriction.  Is this a similar NOTAMS feature mentioned in el-kab0ng's post?  John

NOTAMS does not relax the mandatory crossing restriction about 40 nm from the RC calculated airport center of 12,000 or 11,000 feet (or FL 120 or FL 100 if above the local transition altitude). Which one you get depends on your approach path relative to  the traffic pattern.

 

If you miss this crossing restriction you will be vectored around until you get to the correct altitude bedfore heading in.

 

FIM looks to be about 19 nm radial distance out from LAX. RC expects you to be down to 12,000 or 11,000 level at around REYES.

 

What I do on a Smith's (Boeing) CDU for the FMC is to put a 40 nm range ring around the destination airport. Use the destination ICAO identification as the FIX with a range entry of /40 and EXE the change. If you have decent arcs displayed be sure they terminate before the range ring. I also use a range ring of 30 nm to define the lower speed traffic area.

 

On a Boeing I use speed and V/S to insure I will meet the restrictions.

Frooglesim has quite a few good tutorials on how to do what you just described for those of us who are more inclined to learn through see/do.

Ron:  Thanks for the reply, but prior to it I did set NOTAMS for KLAX.  As FSX's Flight Planner has no altitude info and I have no actual chart for KLAX, other than the ILS and STAR info, I also d/l'ed and installed Plan-G as you suggested above and ringed KLAX with 10 nm rings.

 

From Plan-G, I noted the MEA's and set the A320's CDU FMC to reach FIM (about 35nm out - REYES is about 50 nm out) at FL120 @ 250K and from Plan-G set SADDE at 7,000, BAYST at 6,000, SMO at 5,000 and JAVSI at 4,000 (using the 30 nm rings and the route descent arrival arrows of the A320's Nav Display and the related V/S) which then conformed to RC's ATC descent instruction.   Requested and received a full IAP to RWY 25R and descent to 3,200 to intercept FALLT and SHELL for the ILS.  No Alt Restriction problem.

 

For the return route I ringed KSFO combined with Plan-G for the MEA's and set the CDU FMC accordingly.  These altitudes follow closely the actual UAL 525 position report as checked on FlightAware.  Thanks again. John

Just to be clear, NOTAMS does not relax the crossing restrictions at about 40 nm out, just before approach takes over. Those are hard coded in RC. IAP can be used after approach assigns the runway at your acknowledgement.

 

The 40 nm crossing restrictions fixed at 11,000 or 12,000 feet (level at) represent the hand-off altitudes from center to approach control and are fixed.

 

That's all I was trying to point out.

Ron:  I got you loud and clear.  I had just set NOTAMS on a trial run, prior to seeing your reply.  It seems that about 35 nm out at FIM at 12,000 worked and that is where UAL 525 was 3 days ago.

 

 I haven't tried the full KSFO approach yet with today's UAL 444, but received descent to FL270 24 nm prior to start of STAR SERFR1 when supper called.

 

In the FMC, I set NRRLI to FL200, WWAVS to 15,000 and EPICK to 12,000, which should be the crossing restriction about 43 nm out.  I got these settings from the STAR info.  I'll be able to adjust these as RC's ATC instructs.  I'll check it out after breakfast.  John

Ron:  Regarding the above, just prior to EPIC received RC ATC "Pilot Discretion descend to 11,000", set 11,000, but held close to 12,000 until crossing the hills.  Requested and received a full IAP to RWY 25L and descent to 3,500 to intercept HEMAN, after crossing MENLO at 4,000 according to STAR.  On landing, no Alt Restriction problems and "Excellent".  Got it solved. 

Having the A320's descent planning arrows in the Nav Display sure helps in setting rate of descent to waypoints.  Thanks again.  John