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Jimmy Helton

Did icing crash my plane?

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A really interesting thing happened to me tonight in the JS41.  I decided to go for a flight in the blizzard that hit the southeast today with a route from KATL to KBNA.  Conditions in Atlanta were bad, with heavy snow at takeoff.  About five minutes into the flight everything was going normally.  I was cruising at 240 knots cleared by vatsim departure up to FL140.  At around FL110 she started to stall.  This caught me off guard because I was climbing at a very modest 1200 fpm.  The only way I could get her flying again was to descend. Things were getting worse as it went on.  Level flight was stalling her and the autopilot became useless. The only way I could keep her in the air was to keep a steady descent and she could barely maintain 130 knots at full throttle descending at 1000 fpm.  Anti-ice was on before takeoff.  Things did not go well and eventually she went down. 

 

Did icing cause this crash?  I've been in icing conditions before in the JS41, but never like this.  By the time I realized there was a big problem, it was too late to divert anywhere.


Jimmy Helton

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It is the responsibility of the pilot in command to either avoid icing conditions or make sure the aircraft is equip for icing, so the NTSB would probably call it pilot error :fool:

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A really interesting thing happened to me tonight in the JS41.  I decided to go for a flight in the blizzard that hit the southeast today with a route from KATL to KBNA.  Conditions in Atlanta were bad, with heavy snow at takeoff.  About five minutes into the flight everything was going normally.  I was cruising at 240 knots cleared by vatsim departure up to FL140.  At around FL110 she started to stall.  This caught me off guard because I was climbing at a very modest 1200 fpm.  The only way I could get her flying again was to descend. Things were getting worse as it went on.  Level flight was stalling her and the autopilot became useless. The only way I could keep her in the air was to keep a steady descent and she could barely maintain 130 knots at full throttle descending at 1000 fpm.  Anti-ice was on before takeoff.  Things did not go well and eventually she went down. 

 

Did icing cause this crash?  I've been in icing conditions before in the JS41, but never like this.  By the time I realized there was a big problem, it was too late to divert anywhere.

Does the J41 have a hot wing or boots?

David Womacks CFI,CFII,MEI

Copilot: Captain have you ever flown a 777 before?

Captain:Nope,but we got a strong tail wind and the bar in Hong Kong stays open till 5am, so lets kick the tires, light the fires and, get the hell outta here.

 

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Let me restate the question for Martin: do the changes in flight dynamics I described correlate with the JS41 flight model responding to icing conditions?


Jimmy Helton

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To OP with boots you have to cycle them on and off leaving the boots on will do nothing as the ice will just stick to the inflated boot


David Womacks CFI,CFII,MEI

Copilot: Captain have you ever flown a 777 before?

Captain:Nope,but we got a strong tail wind and the bar in Hong Kong stays open till 5am, so lets kick the tires, light the fires and, get the hell outta here.

 

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Sounds like icing.  


Nick Hatchel

"Sometimes, flying feels too godlike to be attained by man. Sometimes, the world from above seems too beautiful, too wonderful, too distant for human eyes to see …"
Charles A. Lindbergh, 1953

System: Custom Watercooled--Intel i7-8700k OC: 5.0 Ghz--Gigabyte Z370 Gaming 7--EVGA GTX 1080ti Founders Edition--16GB TridentZ RGB DDR4--240GB SSD--460GB SSD--1TB WD Blue HDD--Windows 10--55" Sony XBR55900E TV--GoFlight VantEdge Yoke--MFG Crosswind Pedals--FSXThrottle Quattro Throttle Quadrant--Thrustmaster Warthog HOTAS--TrackIR 5--VRInsight MCPii Boeing

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That's amazing.  If indeed it was icing, then I'm completely blown away by the realism of the JS41!!!!  I also did not realize they were boots, so that does make perfect sense.  What an amazing flight model they coded!


Jimmy Helton

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Like David said, you should cycle the boots. Haven't flown the JS41 in a while because I've moved to P3D, but that's what I used to do.

Speaking of icing, I think it's time for me to torture the Q400. We have about a foot of snow here in NYC with heavy gusts and tons of slick surfaces.  :Devil:


Philip LaBianca

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"I think, therefore I am."

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I did a similar flight out of KATL , only to KAVL . It was pretty bad . Had to cycle the boots constantly .


Guy C . Based KAVL

i7 4790K@ 4.7 / Asus Z87 / 16GB Kingston DDR3 / NVidia GTX960 / CH yoke and pedals / Homebuilt head tracker with Freetrack

FSX SP2 / ASN Next / FSUIPC4 / A2A Accu feel / EditvoicePack / GEX / WOAI / Soon to try Vatsim

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I'm new to the JS41.  I've been on the NGX for a long while, but I wanted a different kind of experience.  Finally got the engines figured out, but it was my first time in heavy icing.  I seriously considered the Q400, but decided to stick with PMDG.


Jimmy Helton

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I'm new to the JS41.  I've been on the NGX for a long while, but I wanted a different kind of experience.  Finally got the engines figured out, but it was my first time in heavy icing.  I seriously considered the Q400, but decided to stick with PMDG.

 i don't have the Q400 , but would like to fly it .

This PMDG aircraft has it's quirks , but overall I really dig the way it flies and having to manage the systems .

Like David said, you should cycle the boots. Haven't flown the JS41 in a while because I've moved to P3D, but that's what I used to do.

Speaking of icing, I think it's time for me to torture the Q400. We have about a foot of snow here in NYC with heavy gusts and tons of slick surfaces.  :Devil:

....braking reported 'poor' by an RJ ... XD Excellent


Guy C . Based KAVL

i7 4790K@ 4.7 / Asus Z87 / 16GB Kingston DDR3 / NVidia GTX960 / CH yoke and pedals / Homebuilt head tracker with Freetrack

FSX SP2 / ASN Next / FSUIPC4 / A2A Accu feel / EditvoicePack / GEX / WOAI / Soon to try Vatsim

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The thing about the Q400 is I would not be happy with less than the professional version, and that sets me back $100...........$100 I'm saving for the PMDG 747 v.2!  I more or less get the full prop experience in the JS41.  However, running the feedback bus outside of fsx to get 40+ framerates on the Q400 almost makes me bite the bullet.


Jimmy Helton

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Important to note JS41's de-ice boots only operate ONCE when the cycle button is pressed, it's not a continuous timer like other aircraft types. You may need to trigger them every few minutes in severe icing.


ckyliu, proud supporter of ViaIntercity.com. Find my spec and settings in "About me" on my profile.

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