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Driver170

Circling to land.

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Just kickin in with my thoughts about a CTL. It si an instrument approach, sometimes out of an ILS like Dubrovnik or a VOR APP like the Nice VOR 22L/R, followed by a final visual segment where the pilot flying!!!! must have the RWY in sight at ALL times. This is also stated on the approach plate. However there is the possibility to fly a CTL with prescribed track means you have the approach in your FMS database and you must have the appropriate approach plate. 

 

Anyway i can highly support Kyles suggestion do not make a doctors degree out of a simple thing. SOPs, as the word say, stands for Standard Operating Procedures which has been established for Standard Operating Conditions. Unfortunately the outside world and god do not support standard operating conditions at all times, so we pilots, real world like your friend Sam Breeze (737) or me (EMJ+CRJ) or all the virtual ones have to deal with dynamic conditions. There is one of those golden rules in aviation, "Fly the F***** Aircraft!!!" 


Greetz


MJ


 


My youtube blog________________________Prepar3D v2.5/v3


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Wow, after reading this I'm sure glad I never had to learn or teach this stuff in Europe. It kind of reminds me of a guy I worked with who was preparing to convert his FAA tickets to JAA; we couldn't believe how unrealistic the techniques they wanted you to use were, to figure out stuff we just DID. I can only assume that the math you guys reference is just rules of thumb for new guys, until they get the feel... I mean, are line pilots really out there doing mental math just to move the plane around the patch?

 

Traffic pattern:

1. Acquire runway visually.

2. Press two buttons twice - the autopilot disconnect and autothrottle disconnect.

3. Move the plane around the patch in a track shaped like a traffic pattern, slowing and configuring as you go.

4. Roll out on final, configured and on speed, around 1,000ft. Land.

 

The 737 is not a hard plane to fly ;-).


Andrew Crowley

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. However there is the possibility to fly a CTL with prescribed track means you have the approach in your FMS database and you must have the appropriate approach plate.

 

No approach in the FMS database for prescribed tracks over here!


Vernon Howells

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No approach in the FMS database for prescribed tracks over here!

 

Hello Vernon,

 

These CTL approaches with prescribed tracks are in the nav data bases on the entire Lufthansa fleeti dont think that you will find this kind of approach in the database of any HQ sim aircraft. Maybe you find it in the Navigraph/Lido charts. So for now you have to stick with the CTL Minima of CAT C aircraft.


Greetz


MJ


 


My youtube blog________________________Prepar3D v2.5/v3


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I'm a fairly inexperienced pilot, but it still frightens me that it's taken almost 30 posts to explain how to fly a traffic pattern.

 

A Circle to Land isn't a traffic pattern or visual circuit per se, it's initially an instrument approach.

 

A Circle to Land approach is basically designed and used when an aircraft cannot fly a straight in course from the airfield approach aid to the runway in use. It's as exactly as Mickeyj explained!

 

You'd fly typically a LOC, VOR or NDB approach to the circling minima and then break Left/Right Downwind or fly the prescribed track as stipulated on the chart for the visual segment of the approach. The Circling minima must be maintained keeping visual contact with the runway (unlike a visual circuit) until the final approach path on the reciprocal runway is being intercepted on base or final.

 

However there is the possibility to fly a CTL with prescribed track means you have the approach in your FMS database and you must have the appropriate approach plate.

 

We fly to a few destination where there are prescribed tracks, our operator hasn’t bothered to load them up in our FMC database! Quite a few of them are prohibited for 737 ops so we have to break Left or Right Downwind after CAT C Circle Minima or if the prescribed tracks are allowed we just build something on the fix page and follow it with HDG SEL!

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We fly to a few destination where there are prescribed tracks, our operator hasn’t bothered to load them up in our FMC database! Quite a few of them are prohibited for 737 ops so we have to break Left or Right Downwind after CAT C Circle Minima or if the prescribed tracks are allowed we just build something on the fix page and follow it with HDG SEL!

 

Take a look at LOWS Visual 33 prescibed tracks RW33 would you break left when over the SI NDB sam or before?


Vernon Howells

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Take a look at LOWS Visual 33 prescibed tracks RW33 would you break left when over the SI NDB sam or before?

 

If this approach is allowed to be flown with the 737 then you have to fly it that way otherwise it wouldnt be a CTL with a prescribed track.

 

 

We fly to a few destination where there are prescribed tracks, our operator hasn’t bothered to load them up in our FMC database! Quite a few of them are prohibited for 737 ops so we have to break Left or Right Downwind after CAT C Circle Minima or if the prescribed tracks are allowed we just build something on the fix page and follow it with HDG SEL!

 

Hello Sam,

 

i see we have some different SOPs on both airplanes EMJ+CRJ the prescribed track approaches are all allowed as long as we have the approach in the actual database and the appropriate approach chart on the EFB. And of course it is flown either magenta on EMJ and white on CRJ. With EMJ i was even able to fly it in VNAV down to the min Autopilot Disc Height. Our CRJs are LNAV only with VNAV Advisory so V/S mode is needed to manage the descent or the APPR is flown manually :)  


Greetz


MJ


 


My youtube blog________________________Prepar3D v2.5/v3


youtubefooter.jpg

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PAPI32, when I say "inexperienced" on these forums I mean I don't have an ATP. I'm a commercial multi instrument pilot; I know what a circling approach is. As stearmandriver has already pointed out, US operators apparently don't "standardize" their techniques as much. Every bit of training I've done on circling procedures has been to acquire the runway, then maneuver to make a normal visual approach to land. That might just mean a base entry, or having to fly a complete crosswind/downwind/base. Basically, if you could fly a visual approach in the jet, you could circle just fine. 


Joe Sherrill

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The WJA gang around my parts were pretty choked when the eye-brow Windows got removed - made those circling procedures into CYLW a breeze.

 

Yay RNP!


Patrick Houghton

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Very informative discussion. As was mentioned earlier, CTL is made more complicated by the limited visual environment in a sim. The FAA Instrument Flying Handbook notes on page 10-20

 

 

During a circling approach, the pilot should maintain visual contact with the runway of intended landing and  fly no lower than the circling minimums until positioned to make a  final descent for a landing.

 

Using EZDOC,  my view outside of the left window is limited to little more than 90 degree from the direction of flight. How does one maintain visual contact with the runway of intended landing on the downwind leg prior to turning base? This question is even more problematic for approaches flown from right downwind.

 

Many thanks.

 

John

 

PS This was much easier when flying C172s or better still Grumman AA-5Bs with their wonderful acrylic canopy.

 


John Wiesenfeld KPBI | FAA PPL/SEL/IFR in a galaxy long ago and far away | VATSIM ZNY C1/PILOT P2

 

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