Captain Sim C-130

[Guest IanP]

I agree to a point - that is that I agree that the language and attitudes expressed here are far in excess of what would be acceptable at other sites and forums I visit.I object quite strongly to companies I have had many good dealings with and people I know personally being referred to using smart alec references by people, but at the same time there are certain circumstances where it is acceptable to keep hammering on a theme. For instance, if people don't let Captain Sim know that they are (and they are at present) very firmly in the community's bad books, then nothing will get done about it. Do they have to have a forum, no, but the way and reason they shut it down are a different matter.I bought and really like the CS L39, MiG21, Starfighter and YAK9. I own, but rarely use for other reasons, the B727. All of these, however, I find to be an acceptable standard and I have no complaint with them. I have flown a supposedly fully patched B707 installation and it was totally unacceptable. If I was finding as many problems as I did in a quick "play", how many would I find given longer to use it? That is Captain Sim's problem - it is not Just Flight's, as they are under a legal agreement to promote the product they have a distribution deal for. Unfortunately this means that potential buyers might get taken in by the sales pitch rather than the reality, which is why people want to inform them what it is really like. It really isn't worth getting as wound up over as some people do, though.Captain Sim's threats, responses (or more commonly lack thereof) and ONE of their products are unacceptable. Other - invariably considerably newer - products may be better in some peoples' eyes, but at least the CS versions are usable in the state they are sold/patched to.I agree with the poster you replied to, Jennifer, that the vast majority of "bashing" is unwarranted. In my opinion, any "bashing" for the sake of it is unwarranted. But if something is wrong, ignoring or threatening your customers is not the way to solve the problem, yet that is how we have got where we are.Ian P.

[Guest jennifer]

I'm beginning to think that the problem is with the 'bashers'. Clearly Captain Sim don't have a problem. The bashers on the other hand continue to hold on to their anger and continue to create tedious and predictable threads containing the same old moans and sarcasm over and over like they're on 'broken record'. I've cut down my visits to the AVSIM forums as a result. This means I click less often on sponsors and flash adverts. It means that I don't add to the AVSIM freeware collection as often as I used to.......maybe a few others do the same. For any one complaint there are always several at least who feel the same but don't put pen to paper.

[Guest panda234]

"Clearly Captain Sim don't have a problem."I think this is wrong. CS does have a problem with the 707 and they are not addressing it. I have the CS 727 and 104 too. In fact the 727 was my first payware aircraft and a favourite for a long time. Dreamfleet and Cloud 9 have now surpassed CS with their releases so I no longer use the CS aircraft, but that is not saying I didn't get my money's worth out of them. The 707, however, is another story entirely. It has never worked correctly, and rather than fix it and continue on they chose to shut down their forums and ignore the issues. That's like a slap in the face to the people that have bought the product and has created quite an uproar. To not have a forum is one thing, to shut it down because people are becoming increasingly vocal about continued issues is quite another. So now, logically, the debate has bubbled out of the pot and into the public fs forums, this one and others included. I don't see it dying down anytime soon as long as people have a product that they paid for and dosn't work properly. I wish the issue would go away too, but it's in the hands of CS. This is their doing. And it is quite easy to pick out the CS "tedious and predictable" threads and skip over them. I pick and choose which threads to read and CS related ones are on my list because of how strongly I feel about the subject. But like I say, I wish the issue would just go away and that I could fly what should be a classic FS9 addon. billg

[Guest JTEK99]

Well, one thing for certain is that Captain Sim has certainly changed its "edge-of-your-seat", "any day now(!!!)" style of marketing blurbs. And that -- at least for me -- is a positive thing. I think CapSim would be very wise in simply avoiding the "any day now" announcements. I, too, think the majority of complaining against their aircraft is overblown; they've put out some very good packages in the past and the positive reviews of them are deserved in my opinion.But what's NOT cool is their PR. They need to be careful before publicly committing to any releases, fixes, etc. in any way, shape or form. More often than not, they're forced to retract their statements in a manner that avoids apologizing for the commitment, and simply glosses over any original statements by pretending they don't exist. Not cool at all.Their fairly recent "Guess the C-130 Release Date" contest was humorous at best when it was announced that the winners who selected the correct date had been chosen, but wouldn't be notified until the actual release date. :) Kind of a paradox, don't you think? I mean, if the release date were set, why wouldn't you announce it and then notify the winners. Unfortunately, this tactic only shows that there IS no such commitment to a release date and, thus, there really are NO winners of the contest to date. I simply don't agree with this type of marketing; it's shaky, at best, and only adds to any criticism that's already out there.What CapSim should do right now is issue a release date, no matter if that release date is in a farther future than many would like. Then, if they release early, that's great; if it's not released early, at least CapSim can have the time it needs to correct any anomalies/problems. At the very least, it would show they're committed.Quite frankly, I'm half-expecting (any day now!!!) Captain Sim to simply announce: "That's it! Due to the absolutely loathsome behavior of SOME people on SOME forums, we're closing our doors forever. No C-130 release! No 707 updates!! No soup for you!!":0

[Guest Ashleigh Davidson]

"That's it! Due to the absolutely loathsome behavior of SOME people on SOME forums, we're closing our doors forever. No C-130 release! No 707 updates!! No soup for you!!" :-violinCould be a good thing overall, there will always be another to take the spare place in the pram but,it's not going to happen as they love the money too much being new capitalist's. Ash

[Guest allcott]

>I'm beginning to think that the problem is with the>'bashers'. Clearly Captain Sim don't have a problem. The>bashers on the other hand continue to hold on to their anger>and continue to create tedious and predictable threads>containing the same old moans and sarcasm over and over like>they're on 'broken record'. I've cut down my visits to the>AVSIM forums as a result. This means I click less often on>sponsors and flash adverts. It means that I don't add to the>AVSIM freeware collection as often as I used to.......maybe a>few others do the same. For any one complaint there are>always several at least who feel the same but don't put pen to>paper.I believe Neville Chamberlain used the same philosophy in 1938. It didn't work then, either. :)Consumers have a right to be informed, and a duty to inform themselves. I was not a CS basher, but I bought the 707 in good faith, realised it was just plain wrong - and got threatened, along with other simmers, for daring to criticise the glorious[/b] CS. Rejecting a complaint is one thing: Shutting your forum, and e-mailing threats to customers who have paid for the product is something entirely different - it was certainly a new experience for me at the time and I changed my approach to forums like this. Also something I would love to have written about in the past tense, had CS changed. But they haven't, as we've seen from other threads written by current beta testers. They haven't got better, they've got (they think) smarter, with their smarmy PR BS, and that makes them a dangerous company to do business with. And that is something that is ALWAYS worth bringing to the attention of would-be customers. Unless you truly believe by ignoring them things will get better? Hopelessly optimistic in my book, and hopelessly unrealistic when you're talking about this particular bunch. They've ignored the 707, and that ain't fixed yet is it?We've already achieved consensus on the way forward for CS. It's up to them whether they want to take it or not, and you sticking your hed in the sand and constantly apologising for them doesn't solve the problem. I certainly would not want to see a single post from a fellow simmer, when the mighty C130 finally sees the light of a virtual day, saying: "I wish I'd know what they were like..."Now, everyone does. Your way, the only contribution you'd make is if you offered the refunds out of your pocket. Congratulations if you've never had a problem with CS or its products, but being one of their apologists means its you that's out of step in this thread, thihs forum and this hobby. That's your choice, but please Ismet, don't drag another simmer down with you.Allcott

[Guest]

>I'm beginning to think that the problem is with the>'bashers'. Clearly Captain Sim don't have a problem. The>bashers on the other hand continue to hold on to their anger>and continue to create tedious and predictable threads>containing the same old moans and sarcasm over and over like>they're on 'broken record'. HAHAHAHHAThe same Jennifer who posted that nonsense on the PMDG forum!!! How ironic!!!This time, we all have valid reasons. You and your constant PMDG bashing, had none

[Bob Scott 7,721]

>I'm beginning to think that the problem is with the>'bashers'. Clearly Captain Sim don't have a problem. The>bashers on the other hand continue to hold on to their anger>and continue to create tedious and predictable threads>containing the same old moans and sarcasm over and over like>they're on 'broken record'. I've cut down my visits to the>AVSIM forums as a result.The same old moans and sarcasm heard for the first time by the new guys just showing up in the hobby are probably the only counterbalance to the ever-present torrent of hype on web sites and in advertising. It is for the new guys that the torch is still carried. Wish someone had done that for me before I sent Peter Tishma some of my $$ a long time ago.Jennifer...IsmetM, whatever your name really is, your previous conduct w/r/t PMDG makes you a rather unlikely critic of so-called bashing behavior. Seems that harsh words against a developer (whether warranted or not) is perfectly acceptable when it suits...YOU.No discussion of the latest CS project is complete without placing it into context...that means alongside their previous failures. In other words...1. Caveat Emptor2. Those who do not remember history are doomed to repeat it.3. There's one born every minute.:-lol :-lol :-lol RegardsBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-V L-300Santiago de Chile

[Guest aafuss]

I like and own the Captain Sim 727 Professional-amazing 727 for FS2004 and is worth buying along with the C-130. The C-130 looks stunning as well

[Guest MarkM]

>I'm beginning to think that the problem is with the>'bashers'. The bashers on the other hand continue to hold on to their anger and continue to create tedious and predictable threads>containing the same old moans and sarcasm over and over like>they're on 'broken record'. :) And there is good confirmation of these words here. The same names, the same words....>I've cut down my visits to the AVSIM forums as a result. Me too.

[Guest jennifer]

Big Al wrote:-"....HAHAHAHHAThe same Jennifer who posted that nonsense on the PMDG forum!!! How ironic!!!This time, we all have valid reasons. You and your constant PMDG bashing, had none______________-Alex....."Hi Big Al. To the best of my knowledge I'm not even a member of the PMDG forum, the new one anyway. (Do correct me if I'm wrong sir, my memory isn't as good as it was at one time.) I might have made some comment in the original one but I can assure you it would have been positive. I have the B737 series and the B1900C and D and find them very fine products. edited:- for spelling

[CF104 0]

>I like and own the Captain Sim 727 Professional-amazing 727>for FS2004 and is worth buying along with the C-130. The C-130>looks stunning as wellEven with the totally screwed up flight director and FDE like a refrigerator? As a former Beta tester and tech advisor on the CS727, I'd say give that plane and its flaws a rest. Go fly a real 727, the DreamFleet 727. At least it flies like one.With your comment of "looks stunning", it appears that eye candy is all you want from a sim. If that's the case then CS is one of the best for visual models and this is your choice. If you're into the guts of the aircraft, then CS will let you down compared to PMDG, LDS, etc... If they can't provide a decent product, not only visuals, the whole package including proper support and after sales bug fixes, then comparing them to the best out there is tantamount to ignorance.I think you are missing the point in that CS has totally ignored the flaws in their 707, and the 727 for that matter. I still can't believe people praise the 707 when CS used the 727 panel, with few modifications, for the overhead.Cheers,JohnBoeing 727/737 & Lockheed C-130/L-100 Mechanic

[Guest Dakota]

It is a pretty simple decision for me. No 707 Update = No more purchases from CS, including the Herc. Their reputation speaks for it's self. A little more effort on their part to release a patch might have saved it and created some happy return customers. Too late now! Too many other high quality add-ons out there to waste time and money with their beta quality stuff.

[Guest jgreth123]

>>I like and own the Captain Sim 727 Professional-amazing>727>>for FS2004 and is worth buying along with the C-130. The>C-130>>looks stunning as well>>Even with the totally screwed up flight director and FDE like>a refrigerator? As a former Beta tester and tech advisor on>the CS727, I'd say give that plane and its flaws a rest. Go>fly a real 727, the DreamFleet 727. At least it flies like>one.>>With your comment of "looks stunning", it appears that eye>candy is all you want from a sim. If that's the case then CS>is one of the best for visual models and this is your choice.>If you're into the guts of the aircraft, then CS will let you>down compared to PMDG, LDS, etc... If they can't provide a>decent product, not only visuals, the whole package including>proper support and after sales bug fixes, then comparing them>to the best out there is tantamount to ignorance.>>I think you are missing the point in that CS has totally>ignored the flaws in their 707, and the 727 for that matter. I>still can't believe people praise the 707 when CS used the 727>panel, with few modifications, for the overhead.>>Cheers,>>John>>Boeing 727/737 & Lockheed C-130/L-100 MechanicI couldn't agree more.I flew the 727 for a bit, thought it was 'challenging' flying a 727 that flew like a 747 x 5. It got shelved pretty fast. I bought the 707 thinking maybe it was just a fluke. The initial release of the 707 was beyond pitiful. I too noticed the fact that they just copy&pasted the overhead and most of the panel. The 707 SOUNDED [ literally, just the sounds ] great. The exterior was amazing. The flight model of the 707 was pitiful. Their patch ( after taking quite a long time to do ) was a let down.Anyhow, I really love the C-130 in real life, but I won't dare buy another CS product. This is coming from someone who used to defend them from other critics. The sad part is, the 707 has been out like 9 months now and still no follow up patch to fix the bugs, look at their 727 that has had the same bugs how long now?I'm hard to please these days. Why? Because of the top addons making everyone else look bad. PMDG, ( I couldn't afford the Level-D 767, so still don't have it :( ), FSD, Ready for Pushback, Flight1, etc... They pretty much rule the market as far as I'm concerned. When it comes to scenery, that's a whole different story. I personally love bush flying, and GA. That being said, I, of course, love Georender sceneries, Holger Sandmann's landscapes, FlyTampa ( for the big ones ), etc....Anyhow. That's all I have to say really. CS just let me down one too many times. They may have decent personal Customer Service, but they obviously don't give a rat's #### about the majority because they don't patch their bug-filled planes.

[Guest mikealpha]

I bet Captainsim has a big laugh at such threads. I assume, what (sadly) counts is that they get their "flying refrigerator with uniform overhead panel" in stores worldwide. If I have correctly understood the MS survey results, 40% of the users don't even use flaps. Which probably means, the 707 or whatever CS products will find enough happy "eye-candy" customers who don't care about flight dynamics or authentic systems.sigh ... :(Mike