Objective review? You be the judge.

[RobbieHe 0]

From what I understand, the Just Flight 707 Professional is the same piece of software as the Capt Sim 707 that there were so many gripes about from people who bought it. Yet, when I read the review of it from Flightsim.com, they speak of it as if it were a classic piece of flight simulation software of the highest caliber. It obviously can't be both. Either the 707 is an excellent flight simulation product and many people who purchased it and have a problem with it don't know what they are talking about, or Flight1 contributes so many advertising dollars Flightsim.com that what is supposed to be a review turns into simply a large, drawn out advertisement. How much of a problem, if any, is there is this business.RH

[W2DR 1,860]

Interesting review. I don't own the CS 707 but I think you're right. If, in fact, this is the CS 707 by another name something is not quite right with the review(er). I can't believe that all those who have complained so loudly about the 707 shortcomings are wrong. So, that leads me to believe that either the Just Flight offereing is not the original CS aircraft or the review is highly biased and just plain misleading. Maybe we'll get some comments from those who actually own either the CS or JF aircraft.Doug

[Guest SaVas]

Not quite sure what the griping is about, as I have had the CS 707 since its release day. I fly it in the sim fairly often and enjoy it quite a bit. Are the systems perfect? Is there something that isnt working? Not that I can tell, but then again Ive never been a pilot of a 707, but I pilot it just fine in the sim.Seems there are so many folks out there anymore that expect a simming plane to be exactly like a real aircraft, of which most have probably never flown firsthand anyway. Oh no, a switch doesnt work. Oh my the wing tip is two millimeters too short. Dang this thing is horrible, it climbs 100 ft/min more than it should. Seriously though I think I read something somewhere about the autopilot not functioning, but it works for me. then again I only use it for cruising at altitude and not for landing which I like doing by hand.I like the 707 by CS in the sim. It flies quite well, and looks great, but then thats just my opinion. Remember, a computer is like a person. Each one is in essence the same, but also very different, and what works for one person in the sim, might be buggy for another.

[Guest mikealpha]

If I find a 707 with an overhead panel just copied over from their 727 (just one engine start switch added and some unused stuff hidden by covers) ?If I find EPR values that are suspicious for the next nobel prize, if you still want them call engines ?System inaccuracies that are too much too list here ?And if I find a "Justflight Order now" ad at the bottom of the same review page, then I shall really think about a "serious" review ? Come on ... ;)For me it's the most embarrassing FS product I ever bought and I bought a lot. It's a slap in the face for a 707 enthusiast.Mike

[Guest allcott]

And let's not forget the attitude of the developer when you bring it to their attention. See Jaap's recent post.`Legendary` 707 is right.:-8Allcott

[Bob Scott 7,721]

Flightsim.com has a history of posting glowing reviews of (IMHO) not-so-glowing commercial products, with a "buy this product now and get a 3-month first-class membership to Flightsim.com" offer posted at the bottom. It's just not possible to be a credible reviewer with that sort of blatant conflict of interest going on.Every time I read one of Andy Herd's reviews now, I wonder who's getting paid for it.RegardsBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-V L-300Santiago de Chile

[Guest B52Drivr]

Bob,You are so correct!The 707 is the SAME 707 we learned to love and hate from CS. It's a pretty thing, but pretty is, as pretty does,and I think we all have figured out that it doesn't really fly like a 707 -- a shame.Not to take anything away from CS as they do have a habit of making very eye worthy models, but the 707 as the 727 really sucked in their 'diving approaches' and other functions. As for the new 130, well, so far, with the new release I haven't wanted to delete it . . . not just yet, as it doesn't seem too bad to fly and the graphics are really stunning.I have to speak with a few old Herc drivers and ask a few questions before I make up my mind on this one, however CS may have just got a new FDE man and this could be a very workable aircraft. Time will tell.For those who have the 707 and 727 and fly it and are happy, great -- but for those of us who have flown the real thing, it just doesn't even come close. And to quash the old argument of 'well, its a sim, and nothing is going to fly right in a sim' . . . thats not true, take the DF 727, it's about as right as rain and flies just as this old guy remembers them to fly.Best to all,Clayhttp://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/F...ers/Dopke01.jpgClayton T. Dopke (Clay)Major, USAF (retired)"Drac"

[Mike T 208]

"...Sure, glass cockpit sims are all the rage now, but any fool can fly along a magenta line, particularly when the flight management computer is doing all the work. Developers have an understandable tendency to concentrate on stuff that they know will sell, but what beats me is why simmers don't show a little more imagination when they buy..."WHOA!!!! Someone should teach young Andrew a thing or two about reviews. The first thing is DON'T INSULT YOUR READERSHIP!!!! I am one of those fools who "can fly along a magenta line" so I guess I should show a "little more imagination"!? So much for the respect for diversity of choice huh?Yep, a glowing review of a HIGHLY controversial product punctuated by a "buy here" sign and an insult to those who don't share his passion for old planes. Young Andy has garnered all the credibility of Michael Jackson asking a judge to allow him to attend the next Boy Scout Jamboree!The fact is that all of the sites have to run a fine line between objective reviews and paying the bills. There is always an aire of impropriety. However, objectively speaking that reivew is nothing but an infomerical.Regards,Mike T.

[Bob Scott 7,721]

Clay; I agree that it's time to let the CS C-130 stand or fall on its own merits. I won't be buying it right away...probably actually never because of the poor experiences I had with the 727 and the F-104. The CS team dealt with their customers like we were a bunch of Bolsheviks in a Moscow bread line. We were expected to wait forever and then take what they deemed fit to give us rather than what we desired. I hope they have gotten their act together on the C-130 FDE...their faulty FDE was my biggest gripe with the 727 and F-104. Their EPR gauges on the 727 were (are) off-scale wacky, and their F-104 would (will) go supersonic in level flight at mil power. At the point where I was still offering suggestions to them on how to fix those, it was falling on deaf ears. All I got was a CV telling me how much russian education the FDE designer supposedly had. It didn't take a USAFTPS grad to fly a few profiles that pretty much proved that the FDE didn't perform anywhere near to specs. If that was the best a russian engineering degree will do for you, well, it tells a bit of the story as to how so many of those guys ended up as "ex" soviet military. :-lolTime to wait and see what develops after the first couple waves of lemmings have taken their leap of faith and a good body of objective, informed opinion is formed. First indications are better than I expected, I'll give them that much. OTOH, they couldn't have dorked up the Herc too much worse than the 707, could they?CheersBob ScottATP IMEL Gulfstream II-III-IV-V L-300Santiago de Chile

[Guest B52Drivr]

Mike, "Michael Jackson asking a judge to allow him to attend the next Boy Scout Jamboree!"Nice one Mike -- best one I've heard all day!Clayhttp://www.dreamfleet2000.com/gfx/images/F...ers/Dopke01.jpgClayton T. Dopke (Clay)Major, USAF (retired)"Drac"

[Guest Jaguar XJ6]

Wasting your time peddling that sort of heresy (i.e. contentment) here. Most of the usual suspects seemingly have nothing better to do than gripe, starting with the base FS 2004 and working outwards from there.Best wishes,Michael

[Guest Grizzly_Air]

I never had any issues with it. Of course I admit I waited a long time before I bought it and my Dual Processor PC with 2 gigs of ram and the 6800 GT dual Video system takes away alot of issues with a lot of planes.I assume most of the bugs were either squashed or were a problem with the PCs running it or people who didn't Read the F(ine) manual. But I didn't fly it much either. I never really cared for the 707 so I can't say. http://www.captainsim.com/user/dl/c130/c130-testpilot.gif

[RobbieHe 0]

I admit, I lusted after it for awhile. I almost took the plunge a couple of times, and if all the info I had was the Flightsim.com review, I would have purchased it. RH

[Tabs 2,790]

Yup, this is really getting stupid. Real life aviation isn't about proving your bravado by flying without the best technology available for enhancing safety and reducing pilot workload. I mean can you imagine hearing something like "Well an LCD navigation display map with EGPWS terrain would have prevented this controlled flight into terrain incident, but the Captain insisted on using soley VOR1, the RMI, and paper charts because only a fool would use computers." ??? Absolutely ludicrous.>"...Sure, glass cockpit sims are all the rage now, but any>fool can fly along a magenta line, particularly when the>flight management computer is doing all the work. Developers>have an understandable tendency to concentrate on stuff that>they know will sell, but what beats me is why simmers don't>show a little more imagination when they buy...">>WHOA!!!! Someone should teach young Andrew a thing or two>about reviews. The first thing is DON'T INSULT YOUR>READERSHIP!!!! I am one of those fools who "can fly along a>magenta line" so I guess I should show a "little more>imagination"!? So much for the respect for diversity of>choice huh?>>Yep, a glowing review of a HIGHLY controversial product>punctuated by a "buy here" sign and an insult to those who>don't share his passion for old planes. >>Young Andy has garnered all the credibility of Michael Jackson>asking a judge to allow him to attend the next Boy Scout>Jamboree!>>The fact is that all of the sites have to run a fine line>between objective reviews and paying the bills. There is>always an aire of impropriety. However, objectively speaking>that reivew is nothing but an infomerical.>>Regards,>>Mike T.

[Ricardo41 5,955]

>I never had any issues with it. Of course I admit I waited a>long time before I bought it and my Dual Processor PC with 2>gigs of ram and the 6800 GT dual Video system takes away alot>of issues with a lot of planes.>>I assume most of the bugs were either squashed or were a>problem with the PCs running it or people who didn't Read the>F(ine) manual. But I didn't fly it much either. I never>really cared for the 707 so I can't say. >>>http://www.captainsim.com/user/dl/c130/c130-testpilot.gifWell, it's hard to take someone seriously, who, after extolling the virtue of the product, then goes on to admit that he "didn't fly it much either."And, please, are you seriously suggesting that a badly written, hastily put together 30 page "manual" qualifies as, well, a manual?There is no RTFM since there is no manual to read!ricardo