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CaptainLars

Flight plan "disagreement" between 777 and P3D

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Hi,

 

the following situation:

 

I create a flight plan with PFPX both for the 777 and for P3D. I start up my desired start situation at the gate and type the flight plan into the FMC. I load the flight plan in the P3D-menu to have the P3D-ATC.

 

Now the following happpens: I take off and the P3D flight plan "deteriorates" somehow, that means, it looses contact to the PMDG flight plan and starts to depict a zig zag line involving airports in the area of the current airplane position. I have constantly the option to "request IFR-clearence for new IFR-destination" in the ATC window. I can go to the P3D flight plan menu and reload it, deleting the waypoints so far crossed and thus setting up the ATC flight plan new. I request the clearance and everything is fine, but as soon as I cross the first waypoint along the route, I goes zig zag again.

 

This is especially annoying since when the PMDG 777 is near the ATC flight plan, the autopilot LNAV follows the P3D-ATC-route, not the 777-FMC-route.

 

This issue is not about not flying online. There are various reasons I don't fly online. Has anyone encountered a similar issue? P3D version is 3.3.5. Any ideas are appreciated.

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A few ideas.  First, if you create a flightplan in PFPX you don't need to manually enter it into the 777.  Use PFPX to export the flightplan and use COROUTE to select and load it into the 777 FMC.  Second, the default P3D navigation database is out of date and there are likely a few waypoints or routes that exist today that don't in the static P3D world. Finally, the default ATC is horrible if you have ever flown and interacted with a real ATC the simulator feature is unusable.  In my opinion.  Get something better if you need ATC.  I don't fly online either but I do have an ATC in my head when I am in the simulation world.

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Thank you very much for your thoughts. I know I can load it via Company Route, but I think I liked it to enter the route manually. Which can lead to errors, too.

 

Yes, the database is out of date. That's why I tried the update from Hervé Sors, but when I do update the fixes and everything, the controller keeps talking of visual approaches when you are trying to land at LFPG, for instance. Which is worrying, because, what if the airport goes IFR?

 

My idea about the whole issue was that it might have to do with not selecting a STAR in PFPX, but perhaps you're right and it's more about the outdated fixes. Another issue to figure out *sigh* 1. Repeating KJFK-LEBL loading Company Route and see what happens; 2. Repeating KJFK-LEBL with updated fixes and see what happens; 3....

 

Yeah I guess that the default ATC is horrible. Do you have a recommendation about what ATC program to take which is compatible with the 777?

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Which is worrying, because, what if the airport goes IFR?

 

Then the controller changes the approach type, vectors you around to get you back into a spot to start the approach, and all goes off without a hitch. While a sudden change from VFR to IFR is rare®, it does happen, and it's all part of aviation life. For what it's worth, if you're trying to get a feel for ATC, the built-in ATC is pretty poor.

 

 

 


Yeah I guess that the default ATC is horrible. Do you have a recommendation about what ATC program to take which is compatible with the 777?

 

VATSIM or IVAO. The reason controllers are still people in the real world (like the pilots still are), is that computers are pretty poor at adaptability.

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Thank you, I will consider this, but I don't think that at VATSIM or IVAO you can resume your saved flights. Do they even allow for time compression, or for an offset in time?

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Thank you, I will consider this, but I don't think that at VATSIM or IVAO you can resume your saved flights. Do they even allow for time compression, or for an offset in time?

 

You can resume flights if you coordinate it by logging on, on the ground first. Controllers may selectively allow compression, but for most Oceanic segments, they usually don't have controllers online (so it would be at your own discretion until you see a controller ahead of you).

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Isn't it difficult when the controller has weather different from that of the pilot? Or would I have to adapt to the controller's date and time when I resume a flight from, say, a week ago?

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Isn't it difficult when the controller has weather different from that of the pilot?

 

It's preferred that everyone use real world weather, but if someone is using different weather, it's not too different from having to work a Cessna into a busy field of airliners.

 

 

 


Or would I have to adapt to the controller's date and time when I resume a flight from, say, a week ago?

 

Not really. He (or she) might just say that you need to wait a few minutes until someone passes by where you'd load up.

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In IVAO, the rules say flights must be done in real time. 

 

About the weather, if you want to use older weather, go ahead. Just note that the ATC will issue "wrong" altimeters, winds etc.

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What's with this one? Is it compatible with the 777?

Basically, any ATC simulation is compatible as long as there is no conflict between navigation databases.  The ProATC website states they use Navigraph data, same as PMDG.

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So, I think I'm a whole lot closer to getting that Pro-ATC Addon. P3D-ATC just ruined my flight to Barcelona.

 

In the meantime I found out what's wrong: it's the fact that, as the 777 is "too advanced" as far as realism is concerned, you don't enter STARs before take-off. Doing so would of course be unnecessary. But that's exactly the fact that the P3D-ATC can't handle since it wants a flightplan from airport A to airport B. Although this requirement is met when you load up the plan in P3D, the PMDG-777-flightplan overwrites the P3D-flightplan when crossing a waypoint or when editing the route. And that's also the moment when the "zig-zagging" occurs - it has nothing to do with the up-to-dateness of the fixes and other data.

 

You can constantly request a "clearence for new IFR-destination" via P3D-ATC, but the clearence will only be to the initial fix for your STAR ("...request clearence to Barcelona..." - "...cleared for GRAUS airport..." where GRAUS is the fix of course). When you just enter a STAR in the FMC for the sake of it, it will clear you properly (but not always, it's yet not really predictable to me). The problem is, you don't know what runway you'll get assigned to, and unless you know this, you can't enter a runway into your FMC... and if you're lucky as I was today, ATC just doesn't let you descend to the destination airport.

 

This is so strange because it's so new. I have this problem only since a few flights. I wonder what would happen if I were able to export the flightplan from PFPX to P3D v3 properly instead of v2.

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I wonder what would happen if I were able to export the flightplan from PFPX to P3D v3 properly instead of v2.

 

There would be no change, and you are correct in that the default ATC is not advanced enough. It is really really bad, and wouldn't be included except Microsoft thought they were just building a game at one time.  Simulation is more than a game, and if you want to enjoy the simulation you need something better than default ATC.

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Yesterday I flew to Barcelona, everything went fine and I did an almost perfect landing there. How that?

 

Perhaps I should have described the "zig zag line" better: A line always consisting of four airports in the vecinity of the aircraft. Perhaps you can guess right now the cause of this: it were the alternate airports that the 777 FMC constantly searches, and which I accidentally mapped on the P3D flightplan by selecting "INCLUDE ALTNS IN PLN" in the PMDG Setup -> Options -> Simulations Menu page 7.

 

So another problem solved. That said, I'll get a more sophisticated ATC nonetheless.

 

Thank you very much for your help!

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