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Stearmandriver

MCE customization - my experience, and a couple questions

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Hello,

 

Firstly, let's get this out of the way for any potential MCE customers who are browsing here:  you want MCE.  I'm a relative newcomer, but I've used the FS***** competitor, and there's not even any comparison.  MCE is far more natural and intuitive to use, and I've had a blast configuring it to use the procedures and checklists my operator uses in line flying.  I find the realism eerie; it's THAT good.  

 

Now, onto the questions, for you gurus of checklist customization and Voxscript.  The background is, I'm trying to configure our procedures exactly, for someone who will be coming on board with us to use as practice.  I hesitate to call any technology based on a video game platform an actual airline procedures trainer; but the reality is that there is some practice value here - but I think only if the procedures can be perfected verbatim.  

 

So with that in mind, I have a few very nit-picky questions about a few things I can't get just quite right.  Probably only a couple percent of MCE users will ever care about these kinds of details lol, so please don't anyone take these as criticisms of the program.  The hundred things I've successfully done with it far outweigh the few that are giving me issues ;-).  And I suspect the issues are more with the Windows speech recognition engine than MCE.

 

Anyway:

 

1.  Many of our checklists (industry-wide, really) are more interactive than they used to be.  The intent is to keep both the pilot flying and pilot monitoring more actively engaged in the process, instead of letting it become a rote read/respond exercise.  So for instance, instead of the altimeter item on the approach checklist just being "(PM)Altimeters....... (PF)Set", it's "(PM)Altimeters...... (PF)29.84, out of 18,200 now."  I've just done away with the checklists that contain a lot of this, and created voxscripts called "descent check", "approach check" etc.  It gets rid of the virtual copilot actually verifying the condition of the named items, but it allows a lot more flexibility to match our procedures.  A lot of times though, just a few different options would work... so is there any way to use an "OR" statement in the checklists?  For instance, on a landing check, possible responses to the "Flaps" item would be "30, green light", "40, green light", or if single engine "15, green light".  It would be cool if that were doable, but I suspect if the ability doesn't already exist it would probably be a prohibitive amount of work to add.  Any other suggestions for these cases would be great.

 

2.  Specifically now - I'm having a tough time setting the landing checklist, given the scenario outlined above.  I figured just setting the checklist to look for a response of "green light" would suffice to keep the flow moving, but MCE does not like that.  As a matter of fact, no matter what I script as the proper response to "Flaps" on the landing checklist, the only response MCE will accept is "Set".  Ideas?  Do I need to somehow remove a default answer for "Flaps" built into a generic checklist somewhere or something?  (I'm editing the PMDG 737-800 checklist).

 

3.  A standard Boeing call is "Set Power" or "Set Takeoff Power" when TO/GA is pressed to start the takeoff roll.  In MCE, "Set Power" gets me no response, and "Set Takeoff Power" has the PM respond by setting max thrust - not what's desired.  He should just be verifying that the planned N1 has been achieved (he doesn't really need to do that in MCE) and calling "Power set".  I tried to create a Voxcript called "set takeoff power" that only contains notify=Power Set, and it works just sitting on the ground, but on an actual takeoff he still jams the throttles forward to max power.  Is there some default action at work here?  Can I remove it altogether?  (I'm comfortable editing xml and other types of code if that's an option).

 

4.  This one is a fun puzzle - I'm creating the "engine failure or shutdown" QRH procedure as a voxcript.  It works great, no problems getting the PM to actually execute all the actions, but I'm trying to get him to read (via Notify actions) the associated verbiage of the checklist.  Even though I'm breaking the Notify commands up to keep them much shorter than the 127 character limit, he often butcher or entirely skips some of the Notify verbiage.  For instance, the first item on the voxscript is Notify=Note: only attempt an engine shutdown when flight conditions permit.  He reads like three words of that, then he's on to the next item.  I'm thinking it might have something to do with him hitting a word the Windows speech recognition does not know... any way I can train it?  

 

(I have, of course, done both the Windows voice recognition training, and the training that comes built into MCE.  As a general matter of course, it understands me perfectly.  These issues are isolated instances, so I don't think they're related to general bad speech recognition.)

 

Thanks much for any suggestions... none of it is really that important to me, it's just a fun puzzle.  If I really could tweak this stuff out to be dead-on accurate, that would be incredibly cool.

 

Thanks!

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Hi,Andrew...cor Blimey, I will have a go at an answer:-)

 

I don't code anything...I am too ancient, PDCS were advanced kit in my hey day...lol:-)

 

The brilliant guys at MCE will know about "or" commands. In the meantime..... off the top of my head....

 

1. You may want to select "no state check" from the checklist GUI and de select "Strict Checklist", since you only require the appropriate verbiage... Then it could go, PNF "Flaps"....PF "30 green light". PNF "Say Flaps", "40 Green light". The problem is getting the correct response from the challenge, if your on the strict checklist option. So you need a pre cursor checklist question that triggers the required response.

 

2. No State check and de select strict checklist, may work again here. From what I know, the checklist is looking for whatever you put in it as the answer. If No check State check is ticked, it won't matter what's set in the aircraft and de selecting strict checklist will allow anything. I am guessing it's not really what you want though?

 

3. PF sets take off power, "N one take off power set", PNF, Notify, "N one set for take off" or Notify "Take of power set" or Notify "EPR power set for take off"

 

4. Normally, if Verbose is selected, he FO should announce every action. I did a little engine fire flow for the 727. You can have some extra Notify speech in there, but its limited to what been recorded by our MCE first officers?:-)

 

Nice to know there is someone else who's an enthusiastic MCE user! Without MCE I would be flying DCS and damaging my high blood pressure dodging SAM's, instead of flying vicariously, making vapour trails over the surly bonds of earth.

 

 

best regards,

 

David

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Andrew,

David is the guru on this flows stuff, but not sure if you are aware of the following end tags to Checklist commands should any help with you getting close to what you need in terms as to who does what.

 

//1 Captain replies

 

//2 FO replies

 

//3 Both FO and Captain reply

 

//4 Flight Engineer replies

 

//5 Captain and Flight Engineer reply

 

//6 FO and FE reply

 

//7 Everybody replies

 

 

Stuart

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Guys,

 

Those are both really helpful suggestions, thank you! Yeah I've watched some of David's stuff and was hoping he'd chime in - and the "strict checklist" option is a really great point, I did enable that without knowing exactly what it did. I'll disable and try it out.

 

And Stuart, I only knew about one of those tags; you're right, they give me easy more options...Thanks!

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Well, disabling "strict checklist" caused the FO to babble a bit more and resulted in no obvious change in execution, so I turned that back on lol.  Worth a try though.

 

Did some custom speech training on the term "green light", and while he still asks me to confirm it after I say it, it works better now so that'll be good enough.  (For whatever reason he seems not to understand the term "twenty five" very well either; did some custom speech training on that as well but he still asks me to confirm it.  He understands all other flap calls easily, so that's weird...)

 

While we're on the topic, I found another weird thing - David, maybe you've run into this?  On the voxscript procedure for the "engine failure or shutdown QRH", he won't move the start lever to cutoff.  He'll do it on the ground, but in flight he just pauses for about 10 seconds, then resumes the procedure without ever moving the start lever.  Ideas?

 

Thanks...

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Well, disabling "strict checklist" caused the FO to babble a bit more and resulted in no obvious change in execution, so I turned that back on lol.  Worth a try though.

 

Did some custom speech training on the term "green light", and while he still asks me to confirm it after I say it, it works better now so that'll be good enough.  (For whatever reason he seems not to understand the term "twenty five" very well either; did some custom speech training on that as well but he still asks me to confirm it.  He understands all other flap calls easily, so that's weird...)

 

While we're on the topic, I found another weird thing - David, maybe you've run into this?  On the voxscript procedure for the "engine failure or shutdown QRH", he won't move the start lever to cutoff.  He'll do it on the ground, but in flight he just pauses for about 10 seconds, then resumes the procedure without ever moving the start lever.  Ideas

 

Thanks...

Andrew, I am away from my PC at the moment. In my 727 (Captain Sim) flows, first officer pulls fire handle then shuts down the engine. The fuel lever going to cut off. Worked well in the C.S. It should work in th PMDG 737 using the emergency fire drills. Alternatively, I would just try "shutdown engine #1,etc. The command is there, its just finding it? Then there is Vox Key?:-)

 

I will try and have a play around this weekend. I don't own the PMDG 737 in P3d, I have all their Sims on my old rig on FSX and I won't pay twice for them just for the P3d version which uses the same code!

 

The checklists are a matter of finding what can be "understood" by AI FO. Perhaps you could use Vox Script Notify commands to do a checklist. I did a "Faux" Vox Script in the X Plane Saab, to mimic a read only checklist. Like your "descent check" script.

 

There's always a way! That's why MCE is powerful.

 

Regards

 

David.

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Hello,

 

Firstly, let's get this out of the way for any potential MCE customers who are browsing here:  you want MCE.  I'm a relative newcomer, but I've used the FS***** competitor, and there's not even any comparison.  MCE is far more natural and intuitive to use, and I've had a blast configuring it to use the procedures and checklists my operator uses in line flying.  I find the realism eerie; it's THAT good.  

 

Now, onto the questions, for you gurus of checklist customization and Voxscript.  The background is, I'm trying to configure our procedures exactly, for someone who will be coming on board with us to use as practice.  I hesitate to call any technology based on a video game platform an actual airline procedures trainer; but the reality is that there is some practice value here - but I think only if the procedures can be perfected verbatim.  

 

So with that in mind, I have a few very nit-picky questions about a few things I can't get just quite right.  Probably only a couple percent of MCE users will ever care about these kinds of details lol, so please don't anyone take these as criticisms of the program.  The hundred things I've successfully done with it far outweigh the few that are giving me issues ;-).  And I suspect the issues are more with the Windows speech recognition engine than MCE.

 

Anyway:

 

1.  Many of our checklists (industry-wide, really) are more interactive than they used to be.  The intent is to keep both the pilot flying and pilot monitoring more actively engaged in the process, instead of letting it become a rote read/respond exercise.  So for instance, instead of the altimeter item on the approach checklist just being "(PM)Altimeters....... (PF)Set", it's "(PM)Altimeters...... (PF)29.84, out of 18,200 now."  I've just done away with the checklists that contain a lot of this, and created voxscripts called "descent check", "approach check" etc.  It gets rid of the virtual copilot actually verifying the condition of the named items, but it allows a lot more flexibility to match our procedures.  A lot of times though, just a few different options would work... so is there any way to use an "OR" statement in the checklists?  For instance, on a landing check, possible responses to the "Flaps" item would be "30, green light", "40, green light", or if single engine "15, green light".  It would be cool if that were doable, but I suspect if the ability doesn't already exist it would probably be a prohibitive amount of work to add.  Any other suggestions for these cases would be great.

 

2.  Specifically now - I'm having a tough time setting the landing checklist, given the scenario outlined above.  I figured just setting the checklist to look for a response of "green light" would suffice to keep the flow moving, but MCE does not like that.  As a matter of fact, no matter what I script as the proper response to "Flaps" on the landing checklist, the only response MCE will accept is "Set".  Ideas?  Do I need to somehow remove a default answer for "Flaps" built into a generic checklist somewhere or something?  (I'm editing the PMDG 737-800 checklist).

 

3.  A standard Boeing call is "Set Power" or "Set Takeoff Power" when TO/GA is pressed to start the takeoff roll.  In MCE, "Set Power" gets me no response, and "Set Takeoff Power" has the PM respond by setting max thrust - not what's desired.  He should just be verifying that the planned N1 has been achieved (he doesn't really need to do that in MCE) and calling "Power set".  I tried to create a Voxcript called "set takeoff power" that only contains notify=Power Set, and it works just sitting on the ground, but on an actual takeoff he still jams the throttles forward to max power.  Is there some default action at work here?  Can I remove it altogether?  (I'm comfortable editing xml and other types of code if that's an option).

 

4.  This one is a fun puzzle - I'm creating the "engine failure or shutdown" QRH procedure as a voxcript.  It works great, no problems getting the PM to actually execute all the actions, but I'm trying to get him to read (via Notify actions) the associated verbiage of the checklist.  Even though I'm breaking the Notify commands up to keep them much shorter than the 127 character limit, he often butcher or entirely skips some of the Notify verbiage.  For instance, the first item on the voxscript is Notify=Note: only attempt an engine shutdown when flight conditions permit.  He reads like three words of that, then he's on to the next item.  I'm thinking it might have something to do with him hitting a word the Windows speech recognition does not know... any way I can train it?  

 

(I have, of course, done both the Windows voice recognition training, and the training that comes built into MCE.  As a general matter of course, it understands me perfectly.  These issues are isolated instances, so I don't think they're related to general bad speech recognition.)

 

Thanks much for any suggestions... none of it is really that important to me, it's just a fun puzzle.  If I really could tweak this stuff out to be dead-on accurate, that would be incredibly cool.

 

Thanks!

 

Thank you for the extensive report. It's the kind of feedback we look forward to.

 

1 - About 3 years ago or earlier, we had the FO attempt to check what Captain specified as Baro (assuming he knew the current QNH) in order to check he's got it right. Unfortunately, it resulted in more frustration as co-pilot made a point in insisting captain gets it absolutely right, with spoken value having to be within 1 MB or 0.01 inch of simulator read value. That made FO look like a nut job, arguing endlessly. So backed off on that.

With regards captain stating exact flaps position. That can be done. Certainly for PMDG 737, 777, 747 and a few others. The challenge is getting it right across the 36+ complex aircraft supported in this package. Should have a go within the next 2 weeks

 

2 - Will make FO accept green light, and even "fifteen green light", "one five green lights" ....and all detents in next update

 

3 - Always keep in mind, built-in commands have precedence over custom ones. This is why you can't script "gear up" (actually, there is a workaround if you want FO to execute a bunch of things as part of the "gear up" command, let me know if you need it). "Set power" command doesn't exist. Therefore, use it to create your own script.

 

4 - This is a limitation with recorded voice packs. Although FO packs are massive (4500+ recordings), and we've done our best to round up aviation related vocabulary, there will always be the odd word recorded FO cannot handle. Suggest you write down the sentences you intend to use, and I'll come up with suggestions for alternative similar sentences. Another option would be to assign a TTS voice to FO, and he would read anything you submit to him. But Windows default TTS voices don't sound good, so have to consider splashing out some dosh on a high quality 32 Bit voice.

 

But don't do that until it proves not doable with recorded voices. There are thousands of recorded full sentences in the voice pack, and we are considering extracting some additional words to make things even more flexible. 

 

With option "strict checklist" un-ticked, FO will argue whenever your reply doesn't match expected answer. Use it when you don't want FO to flip the switches to their checklist intended position. Expect to say "move to next item" from time to time.

 

If you need even more control, more than happy to look into it. Any 3D switch that moves is fair game (ripe for a speech command).

 

We even have commands such as "increase overhead lighting" which would allow you to create scripted commands such as "can you brighten up the overhead panel a bit" or "can you brighten up the overhead panel a lot"  (for that night flight where you struggle to see things).

 

But then, you realize very few people actually use those commands. That's why we don't bother implementing such commands for all aircraft.

 

 

Keep them coming... Issues I mean  :smile:

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Not trying to compare one addon developer to another, but I never really looked into MCE until reading this thread. Another company out there (Call it Crew...) I have used their products made for that specific aircraft.

 

This software here however seems much more fluid and way more customizable. I am very intrigued, is there any videos of this in action to get an idea of how seamless / realistic sounding it can be. 

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is there any videos of this in action to get an idea of how seamless / realistic sounding it can be. 

 

Information, videos and Demo available here: http://www.multicrewxp.com/Downloads.html

 

The key thing to keep in mind, MCE is about a fully interactive voice based crew simulation, with ability to ask co-pilot what you what, when you want, and possibly even hear what you want. Therefore, judging it on video audio alone is missing the point

 

There isn't a timer running in the background, with you sitting like a duck waiting for minute M to speak sentence S (exactly as per manual), then be rewarded with nice audio. 

 

You can command a heading, and correct it on the fly if you've got it wrong, without repeating command. It is fully multi-threaded (can read checklist, while talking to ATC, and still ask FO about latest weather or other information or flip the odd switch out of reach to you). FO can work out the flight phase you're in automatically.

 

 

And the icing on the cake, MCE and the speech engine it hosts inside "mce.exe" run outside the simulator process. That means, no instructions such as reduce your scenery sliders to accommodate the speech engine running inside the sim eating your precious VAS. Never mind potential instability issues should you speak something unexpected (wonder why those "Must speak this exact sentence").

 

With MCE safe design, only absolute minimum code runs inside the sim in order to provide it with situation awareness. Should MCE or the speech engine suffer a fit, your flight, the most important thing will hardly, if ever be compromised.

 

There is also a much cheaper Lite Edition, but it's limited to default FSX & FS9 aircraft. And here is what you can do with it.

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=673377470

 

This is about speech recognition put to good use.

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Thank you for the extensive report. It's the kind of feedback we look forward to.

 

1 - About 3 years ago or earlier, we had the FO attempt to check what Captain specified as Baro (assuming he knew the current QNH) in order to check he's got it right. Unfortunately, it resulted in more frustration as co-pilot made a point in insisting captain gets it absolutely right, with spoken value having to be within 1 MB or 0.01 inch of simulator read value. That made FO look like a nut job, arguing endlessly. So backed off on that.

With regards captain stating exact flaps position. That can be done. Certainly for PMDG 737, 777, 747 and a few others. The challenge is getting it right across the 36+ complex aircraft supported in this package. Should have a go within the next 2 weeks

 

2 - Will make FO accept green light, and even "fifteen green light", "one five green lights" ....and all detents in next update

 

3 - Always keep in mind, built-in commands have precedence over custom ones. This is why you can't script "gear up" (actually, there is a workaround if you want FO to execute a bunch of things as part of the "gear up" command, let me know if you need it). "Set power" command doesn't exist. Therefore, use it to create your own script.

 

4 - This is a limitation with recorded voice packs. Although FO packs are massive (4500+ recordings), and we've done our best to round up aviation related vocabulary, there will always be the odd word recorded FO cannot handle. Suggest you write down the sentences you intend to use, and I'll come up with suggestions for alternative similar sentences. Another option would be to assign a TTS voice to FO, and he would read anything you submit to him. But Windows default TTS voices don't sound good, so have to consider splashing out some dosh on a high quality 32 Bit voice.

 

But don't do that until it proves not doable with recorded voices. There are thousands of recorded full sentences in the voice pack, and we are considering extracting some additional words to make things even more flexible.

 

With option "strict checklist" un-ticked, FO will argue whenever your reply doesn't match expected answer. Use it when you don't want FO to flip the switches to their checklist intended position. Expect to say "move to next item" from time to time.

 

If you need even more control, more than happy to look into it. Any 3D switch that moves is fair game (ripe for a speech command).

 

We even have commands such as "increase overhead lighting" which would allow you to create scripted commands such as "can you brighten up the overhead panel a bit" or "can you brighten up the overhead panel a lot" (for that night flight where you struggle to see things).

 

But then, you realize very few people actually use those commands. That's why we don't bother implementing such commands for all aircraft.

 

 

Keep them coming... Issues I mean

 

 

 

 

And that's why I prefer MCE! :wink: 

 

Oh and lets not forget we don't pay one penny more for every new aircraft that's added to the list of already supported aircraft......One purchase and that's it....plus one to one support...Plus MCE does X Plane... :dance:

 

 

Now Andrew, my Engine Fire flow for the 727 goes like this;

 

 Same procedures for engines #2 and #3......

Command  "Engine one fire procedure"

 

Vox Script flow;

 

Sound=Engine .wav ( one of my custom .wav files playing a sound script)

Pause=3

Sound=fire.wav another custom sound file)

Pause=3

engine one idle

Pause=1

cut off fuel lever engine one

Pause=1

fuel shutoff engine one off

Pause=1

fire switch engine one pull

left tank left fuel pump set off

left tank right fuel pump set off

manifold tank one set off

left aircon pack off

engine one bleed air off

start APU

pause=10

APU generator on the bus

APU bleed air on

NOTIFY=engine one shutdown captain

 

end of Vox Script flow

 

 

So in those days we had to have all these items, some managed by the Flight Engineer (MCE delegates these tasks correctly) and some managed by the First Officer (MCE delegates these accurately) done in the flow. Whilst the captain flies the aircraft.

 

Like I said, I don't have the PMDG 737 in my P3d install, but take a look in there, I think there may be a fire procedure already in the flow. If not try some of the above commands in the Vox Script.

 

 

Here's the Movie...(its 2 years old so its in 720 and on FSX) But fun when no ones lives are at risk in a sim :smile:

 

 https://youtu.be/J1dR4OYULsM?list=PL7227316D8D4AAA3E

 

 

Cheers

 

David

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David,

 

Thanks for the example voxscript. Mine is looking very similar to that, actually. And I have to agree about the support for MCE; I am really impressed.

 

Another option would be to assign a TTS voice to FO, and he would read anything you submit to him.

TTS voices! Don't know why I didn't think of that! I probably wouldn't have bought one for the purpose, but my wife had a few on the computer from an old web dev project; they work great with MCE and totally solve my problem about exact wording.

 

I'll go ahead and finish up my script work - maybe even make an example video for a little challenge - before posting any other questions. Except... I do have one last issue for now: when I run my engine failure / shutdown procedure on the ground, the first officer obediently moves the engine start lever to cutoff. In flight, he won't. He just pauses at that step, says nothing, and eventually skips it and moves on. Obviously, my wording of the command is correct because he executes it on the ground. Why won't he do it in flight, and how can I fix this? (The procedure is called after we're cleaned up and at a safe altitude, so there shouldn't be any low altitude/airspeed inhibit logic at work.)

 

Thanks...

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Hi Andrew, glad you got all your voices working!

 

I take it you are initiating an emergency airborne fire procedure in the PMDG 737?

 

What happens if you use a verbal command "Fire switch engine #xxx pull"?

 

Or......After a verbal confirmation from the first officer that he/she agrees which engine is on fire...(via another little Vox Script)....

 

Then you pull the fire handle out yourself and then initiate your Vox Script flow?

 

I don't have a P3d NGX, but if the fire handle gets pulled that should cut fuel to that engine as well as cut electrical and generator links to that engine. The fire extinguisher being done last by the pilot initiating the flow? If the simulation is 100%, after the fire handle gets pulled, the only other action is the extinguisher? Or is it?

 

Just guessing here? Great fun eh?

 

Good luck.

 

David

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when I run my engine failure / shutdown procedure on the ground, the first officer obediently moves the engine start lever to cutoff. In flight, he won't. He just pauses at that step, says nothing, and eventually skips it and moves on

 

Will have to check, as this is something he should do with commands such as "close fuel lever one" or "close fuel lever engine two" (these also apply to any aircraft).

 

Be aware, flows are executed via a very low priority background thread, and occasionally may be a bit slow to execute depending on the system load.

 

And while the flow is on going, there is nothing preventing you giving him specific orders with direct commands should you notice he didn't perform a crucial step. 

 

You don't have to wait until he's done with the flow, then ask him something else. It is modeled to be realistic in terms of interactivity.

 

Could start checklist reading, ask him to flip the odd switch or remind you about some aircraft or weather related parameter.

 

Critical actions part of flows are considered intentional and should always execute without prompt for confirmation. 

 

If unsure whether FO has completed a specific flow, just ask him/her

 

Are you done with the flow

Have you completed the flow

Are we finished with the flow

....

....See manual for other variations or make your own

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team

 

i have always used a TTS voice for the FO ..... great flexibility etc.

 

i also write voxkey actions to be used in voxscript procedures, particularly when you want a task which is confusing for MCE's programmed commands.

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The voxkey action is a great idea, thanks, will try.

 

I'm not doing a fire procedure yet, just an engine failure / shutdown.  So I set up a V1 cut, and then fly through our V1 cut profile, get cleaned up, trimmed up, engage the autopilot, and call for the Engine Failure / Shutdown QRH.  So there's no pulling of a fire switch, just doing a normal shutdown / securing the engine via the start lever.  He'll do it on the ground, but not in flight.

 

I just realized, I think most of the times I tested it on the ground, the engine was actually running.  In flight, the engine was not running because I had programmed the V1 cut.  Is there perhaps some logic or reason that the MCE FO won't move the start lever to cutoff if he realizes the engine is already not running??

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Is there perhaps some logic or reason that the MCE FO won't move the start lever to cutoff if he realizes the engine is already not running??

 

Spot on. Indeed!

 

The procedure that handles engine shutdown was checking engine status first. It will be patched in next update, hopefully by the end of this week.

 

The procedure that handles start lever switching is separate and will set the lever to desired position.

 

That means, until the patch comes out, one way you can get your flow going is to replace the command "shutdown engine one" with these 2 commands

 

engine one to idle

close fuel lever engine one

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No need to change a procedure just for me. If nothing else, using a voxkey command should work for my situation. If the current set up makes sense for the majority of users then it's all good. I know I'm trying something a little more challenging...

 

But thanks for the explanation!

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No need to change a procedure just for me. If nothing else, using a voxkey command should work for my situation. If the current set up makes sense for the majority of users then it's all good. I know I'm trying something a little more challenging...

 

But thanks for the explanation!

 

Not changing it to accommodate your specific scenario.

 

It has a flawed logic and needs to be fixed ASAP.

 

When engine is down, all jet aircraft require to put the fuel lever to OFF, irrespective of whether it was running, flamed-out or on fire. 

 

Be aware Voxkey isn't very suitable for cockpit switches handling, as it doesn't have any knowledge of current state. If you had a key combination to trigger the fuel lever for instance, you'd have to visually check its current state before activating the command or you'd get unintended results.

 

Voxkey can be useful with non-supported aircraft, or to control other add-ons that respond to key combinations. Things like starting and stopping TrackIR...

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I do have one last issue for now: when I run my engine failure / shutdown procedure on the ground, the first officer obediently moves the engine start lever to cutoff. In flight, he won't. He just pauses at that step, says nothing, and eventually skips it and moves on

 

Now fixed in the new patch. Unzip and replace files as per folder structure. 

 

 

http://www.multicrewxp.com/MCE-Patch2675.zip

 

It assumes you have already installed V2.6.7.4. Manually replace...

 

- "mce.exe" in C:\Program Files (x86)\Multi Crew Experience\ folder

- A few speech grammar files in C:\Program Files (x86)\Multi Crew Experience\CandC\ folder

- 3 dlls in \flightsim root folder\MCE dlls\ folder

 

It should also now be possible to practice your CAT III approaches.

 

Add the following section to your "mce.ini"

 

[CAT_III]

FlightCalloutHeight=

FlightCalloutText=

GroundCalloutSpeed=

GroundCalloutText=

 

I think above items are self explanatory. Type whatever is required.

 

This is a new feature and we expect it to require refinement once people start using it.

 

FO needs to be told about your intention to perform a CAT II approach.

 

Anytime after takeoff, just tell him/her

 

      we will perform a category three ils approach
      we will perform a cat three ils approach
      we will perform a category three approach
      we will perform a cat three approach
      will perform a category three ils approach
      will perform a category three approach
      it will be a category three ils approach
      it will be a category three approach
      it will be a cat three ils approach
      it will be a cat three approach
      approach will be category three ils
      approach will be cat three ils
      approach will be category three
      approach will be cat three
      
      Optionally_speak_whatever_you_want_here  (example, "on arrival", "at our destination", "etc..."

 

And of course if you can't be bothered to remember the exact wording, create your own sentence to inform him about your intention to perform a CAT III approach, and tie it to one of the existing commands above.

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Hello,

 

This also works in the Aerosoft Airbus...."It will be a Cat Three Approach", is met with a confirmation request from the FO and then "No training for a CAT three has been done"! :fool: I just knew I needed a type rating refresher. :fool:

 

Happy days!

 

Regards

David

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"No training for a CAT three has been done"!  I just knew I needed a type rating refresher.

 

:LMAO:  :LMAO:  :LMAO:

 

That's what happens when you don't provide info in "mce.ini". He doesn't have a clue what you expect from him.

 

Tell him at which radio altitude in feet he must make the custom call-out

 

FlightCalloutHeight=

FlightCalloutText=

 

If info is missing in any of the above, both are ignored.

 

Optionally tell him which ground call-out to make after landing, and at which speed.

 

GroundCalloutSpeed=

GroundCalloutText=

 

Again, if info is missing for any of the 2 items above, no call-out will happen.

 

Maybe should have been named "FlightCalloutSpeech" and "GoundCalloutSpeech". Too late now.  :smile:

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That's great work! Way to go! You guys even thought of what FO would say if a dozy pilot like me forgets to add the lines to the .ini!:-)

 

Just thinking, we can now tell FO "our clean config speed will be xxx" and he acknowledges and resets the speed.

 

Is there a way you can write a routine where we can say "it will be a CAT three approach, callout height xXxX,(text), ground callout speed xxx (text)"....so the routine then adds this to the .ini.? Or perhaps in a similar way to the clean config speed setting?

 

Is there no limit to how good this add on can be? Answer, not when you have got a guy who knows how to code his program and doesn't need 3rd party devs?;) Instant support and instant upgrades!

 

Regards

 

David

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Well, here's a video of a V1 cut and air return to Juneau, using my customized checklists.  Works pretty well.  Video looks lousy, must be something I don't know about video uploads.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRLYAwDFM9c

 

Only two issues I can think of with MCE:

1.  The "bug up" command has to be spoken twice.  First time, it says it's setting clean maneuver, but it actually sets something around 230kts.  Second "bug up" command sets the speed properly.

2.  Minimums - MCE does not reference the minimums bug, it seems to always call mins at a default 200ft.  This is a problem on non-ILS approaches, and on CAT II/III as well.

 

But overall, pretty slick!

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Enjoyed that Andrew!

 

A couple of things.

 

Are those "failures" the PMDG set ones? I see you loose number one at V one?

 

Following that, would the clean maneuver speed not be single engine Vref? I have not tried it in the NGX, but if you said "our clean maneuver speed is xxx" then "bug up", would that work ok?

 

Great use of the "notify" and the //2 in the checklist.

 

I am experimenting with some .wav files. If you record some verbal instructions (or get one of your crew mates to volunteer) and then call them from a vox script with the "sound" command.....?:-)

 

I don't know about the minimums bug not referenced, that's one for Gerald.

 

Love that area, its always got interesting weather..read challenging, or plain scary?:-):-):-)

 

best regards,

 

David.

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Hi David,

 

Yep, the failure was a built in PMDG failure, the ones you can select from the PMDG menu within the FMC. That was actually the "Vr cut"; as you said, it works out to be a V1 cut. They all happen about a second early for me, so the V1 cut is too early, and the Vr cut actually becomes a V1 cut. There's also a V2 cut, if you want something a bit later. PMDG has really done a great job modeling all their failures. They aren't all perfect but they're pretty darn good... but the engine failures actually ARE perfect, unless I'm missing something.

 

Clean maneuver speed is what you want after an engine failure, it's the minimum speed that provides adequate buffet margin in the clean configuration in a 30 degree bank (with 15 degrees overshoot, so really a 45 degree bank). Single engine Vref is an approach speed; I don't know off the top of my head what a clean Vref would be, but I think it'd be a bit slower since ref is 1.3 Vso and doesn't usually provide for full maneuvering.

 

ANYway, that's for the engineers ;-). Point is, you can see clean maneuver speed on the airspeed tape, it's the little green "up". It's actually a little slower than 214 in my video, so you can see the "up" a few knots below the bug. It's nice that you can tell MCE what your bug up speed is, but since you don't really know (unless you look it up in a performance manual) prior to takeoff because you can't see it on the tape then, MCE can never really get it right. I assume this must be written in a .dll somewhere or must be available via the sdk as other software can reference it without being told; that'd really be ideal. But this is close. The only actual problem is no matter what you tell MCE your bug up speed is (and he confirms it), he still bugs like 231 the first time, so I always have to ask for bug up twice.

 

The mins bug: there may be a glitch in there somewhere, maybe just for the NGX, I haven't tried MCE with any other types. But about half the time I tell MCE what our decision height is, he tries to set it but blows right by the specified value and just keeps scrolling forever, and locks up. The other half of the time he sets it correctly, but still only makes the proper verbal call out about half of THOSE times. And there doesn't seem to be a provision to specify whether he uses the baro bug or the radio alt bug; the actual plane will make its callout based on whichever bug you leave visible.

 

But that's all small stuff. Overall, this works really well! And yeah, Juneau is a cool place... I left the weather nice for performance reasons, but descending into the channel on a snotty day will get your attention!

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