My issue with X-plane

[60North 120]

As Murmur said, the default RoG values are usually off, but they are customizable by design in PlaneMaker  A skilled designer can fix this in a few minutes.  

If done right both the short period damping and long period phugoid oscillations will be correct.

 

http://www.xplanefreeware.net/morten/MOV/pitch.mp4

 

So basically just up to the designer..

[Humpty 751]

think my stick is faulty but why is it OK in FS9 / FSX / DCS. The pitch axis shows 80% to the left in Xplane's Joystick setup. The moment I pull up it loses the axis rascal.

 

I am going to dismantle the stick again and check the potentiometers and if need be I will swap the broken Logitech which I am using as a hand yaw and throttle circuits with the one for the pitch / roll authority don't want to keep spending 20$  every time. 

 

See the pitch axis, if I caliberate in windows it will show up correctly in this , but the moment I pull the stick back it's gone.

 

[jcomm 5,939]

I can send you my old x52 Pro.

 

Stick is OK, TQ works partially....

[mmerelles 78]

think my stick is faulty but why is it OK in FS9 / FSX / DCS. The pitch axis shows 80% to the left in Xplane's Joystick setup. The moment I pull up it loses the axis rascal.

 

I am going to dismantle the stick again and check the potentiometers and if need be I will swap the broken Logitech which I am using as a hand yaw and throttlcircuits with the one for the pitch / roll authority don't want to keep spending 20$  every time. 

 

See the pitch axis, if I caliberate in windows it will show up correctly in this , but the moment I pull the stick back it's gone.

 

 

 

Did you calibrate your axis via xplane? they are "red" as if you were not!!

 

You need to clic calibrate joystick hardware and move all axis in all directions until they come green.

[Humpty 751]

Did you calibrate your axis via xplane? they are "red" as if you were not!!

 

You need to clic calibrate joystick hardware and move all axis in all directions until they come green.

Did you calibrate your axis via xplane? they are "red" as if you were not!!

 

You need to clic calibrate joystick hardware and move all axis in all directions until they come green.

yes I calibrate under xplane but it will go back to uncalibrated mode

[strider1 575]

X-Plane aircrafts tend to have an exaggerated static longitudinal stability, and an exaggerated flight controls effectiveness (including elevator).

 

This produces very sensitive elevator response and high frequency short period movements in pitch, and hence it is felt as a twitchiness or (paradoxically) instability in pitch.

 

This can be compounded by the fact that X-Plane tends to underestimate the moments of inertia around the 3 axes, if the aircraft designer does not use custom values for those.

 

In addition to setting at full right both control response curves (max non-linearity) and stability augmentation curves, the simplest thing you can do to improve things is open the aircraft in Plane-Maker and reduce the max deflection of the various flight controls.

 

Of course, the ideal solution would be a revision of the flight model making it more accurate, but I doubt we'll see it soon.

 

What kind of yolk/joysitck are you using ? I had the same problem with a over sensitive pitch when I was using that cheap plastic saitek yolk. I finally broke down and bought a PFC yolk ! It was the best money Ive ever spent on simming ! It was expensive, im not going to lie but if you are a hardcore simmer or pilot then it's defiantly worth it ! My stick and rudder skills defiantly improved in real world flying !

yes I calibrate under xplane but it will go back to uncalibrated mode

 

After calibrating make sure you "Use this position and CENTER" ??

[Murmur 3,941]

What kind of yolk/joysitck are you using ? I had the same problem with a over sensitive pitch when I was using that cheap plastic saitek yolk. I finally broke down and bought a PFC yolk ! It was the best money Ive ever spent on simming ! It was expensive, im not going to lie but if you are a hardcore simmer or pilot then it's defiantly worth it ! My stick and rudder skills defiantly improved in real world flying !

 

My claims on excessive pitch stability/control effectiveness are the result of a quantitative analysis made with a plugin I coded and then the results compared with real world aicrafts data, so it's not related to the type of joystick involved. :smile: Although as you said, using high quality flight controls can improve the feeling.

[strider1 575]

My claims on excessive pitch stability/control effectiveness are the result of a quantitative analysis made with a plugin I coded and then the results compared with real world aicrafts data, so it's not related to the type of joystick involved. :smile: Although as you said, using high quality flight controls can improve the feeling.

 

I guess you lost me at "static longitudinal stability", lol........

[Humpty 751]

Just dismantled the joystick and looks like a potentiometer issue. Got to test further.

But now my roll authority is slightly offset hehe.

[jcomm 5,939]

You need a new joystick Zulfi.

[Humpty 751]

You need a new joystick Zulfi.

 

I need a new system too .

[gboz 157]

 

 

As real pilots know, in real airplanes if you pull back the stick quickly there's a "lag" due to the sheer mass of the airplane. This is what can break the wings if you pull too quickly. Nevertheless, when you push or pull the stick, the airplane has a smooth response, like moving through fluid.
With xplane I am constantly fighting due to the lack of that "lag".

 

Very interesting.

Have you seen this post/video over at A2A:

http://a2asimulations.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=23&t=47744

where they demonstrate that the sensitivity slider in FSX/P3D doesn't

seem to have much connection to sensitivity but just introduces a delay in the control surface response.

Not having any real world experience myself, introducing a delay seemed like a pointless exercise to me

and that also seems to be the conclusion of A2A, at least with their planes.

But now, from what you say, a delay might make sense after all.

??

 

gb.

[60North 120]

introducing a delay seemed like a pointless exercise to me

and that also seems to be the conclusion of A2A, at least with their planes.

But now, from what you say, a delay might make sense after all.

??

 

gb.

 

From a GA type aircraft perspective not very much, they are very direct and light on the controls.

 

On larger aircraft however, it definitely is relevant;

 

- In real there are small delays, cables stretching, bearings slack, hydraulic actuators delays, control surface parts bending, low temperatures causing less tension in wires etc.

 

- But, maybe the biggest reason is the difference in CONTROL FORCES needed between sim hardware and real hardware.  

There is no way you will be able to deflect the yoke on a real airliner nearly as fast as they do on the sim yoke in your video.  To move the controls on airliners in real you need

forces of up to 80 lbf (rudder)!  Also remember, you most of the time while handflying only use one hand/foot on the controls (other on the throttle)

So moving a 30-40 lbf yoke to full deflection with one hand WILL take more time in real than on sim harware - not to mention joysticks which maybe just move 10%

of what the real thing does to full deflection.

 

- Another example is the 757 and 767.  They both have very similar rollrates at full deflection.  However, the 767 yoke only deflects 90 deg, but the 757 deflects 180 deg.

So... the 767 will FEEL much more sensitive to the pilot in roll than the 757..

 

So time delays are both realistic and necessary in a sim to give the most realistic feel, and it also depends on your sim hardware.

 

M

[Humpty 751]

I suggest try the default 747 and you will notice how late she responds. 

[Humpty 751]

Somehow dismantling and reassembling the stick has got it stabilized. Not doing the nose attitude anymore.