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Holdit

First new rig in a long time (proposed spec)

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After over 8 years with my old Dell XPS, it's time to move on, so I've put together this spec on Overclockers.co.uk:

 

be Quiet! Silent Base 600 Midi Tower

Motherboard: ASUS Z1790-E Intel Z170 DDR4 ATX

Processor: Intel Core i7-6700K 4.0GHz

Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB DDR4 3000MHz

Graphics Card: Zotac GeForce GTX 1050Ti Mini 4096MB GDDR5 PCI-Express

CPU Cooler: Alpenfohn Brocken EXO 120mm

128GB M.2 SSD for OS

500GB Samsung EVO SSD for FSX

Seagate 2TB 7200RPM SATA HDD for everything else

Apart from a DVD re-writer, that's about it. I'll go with on-board audio.

 

Price: €1513

 

Regarding expectations: I currently run with most sliders reduced somewhat and autogen on "Sparse".  I'd like to be able to increase that to "Normal". "Dense" or beyond would be a bonus. I'm not thinking in terms of pushing everything all the way to the right. I'm so used to poor frame rates that my real concern is a smooth flight. I'm tired of tweaking. I'd be happy with a consistent 25-30 fps, if that's achievable. Right now I can get 18-24 in the A2A C172 at EGHH with UTX Europe, freeware airport and FTX Global.

 

Decision #1: I can shave €115 off the price by opting for an i5 6600K 3.9Ghz instead. I know the i7 is a better processor, but is it €115-worth of better?

 

Decision #2: Operating system: Windows 7 or Windows 10. I'd prefer to stay with 7, unless there is a compelling reason for an upgrade, and its end-of-life (for updates) is still three years away.

 

There was a third decision to make, regarding which sim to run, but I already own but don't use FSX-SW so I think that's the one to go with. I don't fancy P3D much, for various reasons.

 

Comments on the proposed build and Decisions 1 and 2 welcomed.

 

Thanks

 

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That's completely unbalanced, the 6700k will be strangled by the poor graphics card.  You want a 1060 minimum and preferably a 1070 with that CPU

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Decision #1: I can shave €115 off the price by opting for an i5 6600K 3.9Ghz instead. I know the i7 is a better processor, but is it €115-worth of better?

It depends what you want to use it for. The i7 has a higher base clock speed and has hyperthreading which makes a significant improvement in multi-core applications. Single core performance seems roughly similar so (if overclocked to the same speed as the i7) the i5 would be just as good for FSX. As new games and applications are becoming increasingly multi-core aware, you'd be making your system more future proof with the i7.

 

Decision #2: Operating system: Windows 7 or Windows 10. I'd prefer to stay with 7, unless there is a compelling reason for an upgrade, and its end-of-life (for updates) is still three years away.

So after 3 years you'd have to change to Windows 10 anyway or run the risk of having an insecure system. There seems to be a common misconception that Windows 10 is somehow fundamentally worse than Windows 7 for FSX (or anything else if you believe the complaints). I think that there's potentially some truth to that for those who've upgraded from a previously well-used version of Windows and have also had to subsequently install the Anniversary Update. Windows 10, like all Windows upgrades before it, tries its best to cope with all of the old drivers and unusual software combinations and can sometimes fall over as a result - just as Windows 7 and 8 did in their early days. If you're going for a new build system with a clean install of the latest version of Windows 10, with all of the latest compatible drivers (and unadulterated by earlier versions of Windows), you should have few, if any problems. I was a die-hard Windows 7 fan until I built my latest system. As Windows 10 was still free I decided to try it on the basis that I could always reformat the new drive and install Windows 7 if I didn't like it. As with any new OS there was a period of readjustment but the only problems I've had have generally been down to finger trouble. It seems much snappier than Windows 7 and I can honestly say that I now prefer it. It's easy to turn of the processes that try to phone home to Microsoft and although, by default, it updates automatically, you can restrict the updates to just those which fix security issues (which you'd want anyway).

 

I agree with Charlatan that it would be a shame to put an entry level GPU into an otherwise great system - the 1050 would definitely be the weak link. If your budget really can't stretch to at least a 1060, I would suggest going for the i5 processor and putting the money you save towards a better GPU. Also, don't forget that you'll need to budget for a good quality PSU with some output to spare.

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Graphics Card: Zotac GeForce GTX 1050Ti Mini 4096MB GDDR5 PCI-Express

 

Don't go with this graphics card. Go minimum for a 1060 and when budget allows, take the 1070.

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Motherboard: ASUS Z1790-E Intel Z170 DDR4 ATX

 

 

 

Have you got that right, I've never heard of such a motherboard from Asus?

 

Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB DDR4 3000MHz

 

 

 

Okay RAM, but my suggestion would always be GSkill Ripjaw V.

 

Graphics Card: Zotac GeForce GTX 1050Ti Mini 4096MB GDDR5 PCI-Express

 

 

 

I think the other lads have given you sound advice on that one.

 

CPU Cooler: Alpenfohn Brocken EXO 120mm

 

 

 

Overclocking? Either way, yes or no, there are far better options out there. 

 

Personally I'm very happy with W10. I went for the Pro version. I like the fact that in the Pro version I can set up a Group Policy very easily. That means that all updates, security updates, drivers, won't install automatically.  All I get is a reminder that they are available. I can then peruse them and install when I fancy, if I fancy.

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Thanks to all for the responses. The message about the processor and graphics card combination seems pretty clear, so I'll have to downgrade the processor a bit in order to stay within budget. I've also changed my cooling and motherboard choices.

 

Updated spec (including the PSU this time):

 

Case: be Quiet! Silent Base 600 Midi Tower
Motherboard: GigaByte Z170-Gaming K3 Intel Z170 DDR4 ATX
Processor: Intel Core i5-6600K 3.9Ghz
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB DDR4 3000MHz (No GSkill options available)
Graphics Card: Zotac GeForce GTX 1050Ti Mini 4096MB GDDR5 PCI-Express
CPU Cooler: be Quiet! Dark Rock TF
PSU: Corsair CX-M Series 650W 80 Plus Bronze Semi Modular
Storage: 128GB M.2 SSD for OS, 500GB Samsung EVO SSD for FSX, Seagate 2TB 7200RPM SATA HDD for everything else
OS: Windows 10 Pro

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CPU Cooler: be Quiet! Dark Rock TF

 

 

 

Are you going to overclock?

 

If not, or just a moderate overclock, I would highly recommend the Noctua NH-U14S. Fantastic cooler for a single tower design. If your builder has it of course.

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Graphics Card: Zotac GeForce GTX 1050Ti Mini 4096MB GDDR5 PCI-Express

 

Again, take another look into this and try to get a 1060 at minimum. The 1050 will just not cut it....

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The be Quiet! Dark Rock TF looks like a decent cooler. See here for a good comparrison - https://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/noctua_nh_d15s_cpu_cooler_review,8.html. It's on a Haswell CPU but they generally run hotter than Skylake so your system should cope with a respectable overclock..

 

Yeah, that review doesn't make sense to be honest. They have it beating the D15 by two degrees.

 

Below you can see the situation reversed, with the D15 beating it by four degrees and quieter too.

 

http://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/7444/quiet-dark-rock-tf-top-flow-cpu-cooler-review/index6.html

 

Below the situation is worse, with the D15 beating it by a huge 15 degrees! That's with the 5930K. So doesn't seem to handle 6 core CPU's very well.

 

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/be-quiet-dark-rock-tf-cpu-cooler,review-33361-2.html

 

 

VERDICT

The Dark Rock TF brings be quiet! quality and “big air” capacity to mid-sized case users, but with less-than-ideal thermal and acoustic performance. The Dark Rock TF will likely benefit from an appropriately-placed side-panel vent when mounted inside a tight case.

 

4 degrees warmer than the D15 here too, with the 6700K. Which isn't bad for a top flow cooler.

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/beQuiet/Dark_Rock_TF/6.html

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Again, take another look into this and try to get a 1060 at minimum. The 1050 will just not cut it....

 

Well I had scaled back the processor from an i7 to an i5 in response to similar comments above, in order to stay on budget. Can you elaborate on what "will just not cut it" actually means in terms of performance and user experience? Not disagreeing with your assessment, and thanks for taking the time,  but it would be nice to have more tangible information to go on.

 

I may be able to stretch the budget to an i7 with 1060, and I'm still looking at that, but a 1070 is out of the question. I would imagine that, given the spec I'm coming from, 2.4GHz Q6600 with 4GB RAM and a 1GB GTX 650, I won't be complaining too much about performance...surely?  :shok:

Are you going to overclock?

 

If not, or just a moderate overclock, I would highly recommend the Noctua NH-U14S. Fantastic cooler for a single tower design. If your builder has it of course.

 

I wasn't planning to, but it would be nice if it was an option. That cooler isn't available from that builder, though. I think the next step up from the cooler I've chosen involves liquid cooling, at £1, £3 and £25 depending on choice.

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I would stick to air. The Be Quiet Dark Rock TF seems to be doing a great job on Skylake. Plenty of YouTube videos to check out.

 

Vortex681 was correct. Should handle a nice overclock and pretty quiet.

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I may be able to stretch the budget to an i7 with 1060, and I'm still looking at that, but a 1070 is out of the question. I would imagine that, given the spec I'm coming from, 2.4GHz Q6600 with 4GB RAM and a 1GB GTX 650, I won't be complaining too much about performance...surely?  :shok:

 

Go with the i7 and 1060.  Even with the 6600k that graphics card would be like buying an Aston Martin and putting a Fiat Panda engine in it

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Go with the i7 and 1060.  Even with the 6600k that graphics card would be like buying an Aston Martin and putting a Fiat Panda engine in it

 

That's that explanation is a bit more enlightening, still an explanation of what's actually going on would be so much more helpful. In such a scenario, is it that the CPU is pushing information to the graphics card faster than the graphics card can process it*? If that is the case, what would the symptoms be? Low FPS? Stuttering? Blurries? All three?

 

*Would a better analogy be paying for Gigabit broadband to you house, and then connecting your laptop to it with 56Mbps WiFi?

 

Updated build:

 

Case: be Quiet! Silent Base 600 Midi Tower
Motherboard: GigaByte Z170-Gaming K3 Intel Z170 DDR4 ATX
Processor: Intel Core i7-6700K 4.0Ghz
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16GB DDR4 3000MHz (No GSkill options available)
Graphics Card: Zotac GeForce GTX 1060Ti Mini 6144MB GDDR5 PCI-Express
CPU Cooler: be Quiet! Dark Rock TF
PSU: Corsair CX-M Series 650W 80 Plus Bronze Semi Modular
Storage: 128GB M.2 SSD for OS, 500GB Samsung EVO SSD for FSX, Seagate 2TB 7200RPM SATA HDD for everything else
OS: Windows 10 Pro

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Exactly, one poor component will bottleneck everything else and choke it to an almost standstill.  You'd be getting the exact three symptoms you describe.

 

A well balanced system will far outperform one with some top notch components let down by a few dogs.

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Wait 2-3 months for the Z270 motherboards and Kaby Lake 7700k CPUs.

 

If he doesn't have the budget for a 1070, he sure as hell isnt going to afford the latest cpu and motherboard

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If he doesn't have the budget for a 1070, he sure as hell isnt going to afford the latest cpu and motherboard

 

My reaction exactly.

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It's getting close to decision time, and now comes the biggest one...I can save over €200 by dropping back to a 6600K with GTX 1050, instead of opting for the 6700 with GTX 1060. It seems that the 6600 is a good overclocker, so would this be a worthwhile saving or a false economy?

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If this is a p3d build stuck with the 1070

 

Thanks...it's actually for FSX. I've mostly, but not completely, ruled our P3D. You reckon the processor would be OK though? 

 

(I assume you're referring to the GTX 1060)

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Oh I misread your proposed GPU.  I think for FSX the 1060 would be plenty assuming 1080P monitor.  The 6600K would be fine too.

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If downgrading the SSDs to HDDs and going with a 6600K would make room in the budget for a GTX1070, I'd do that.  The SSDs will only help with faster boot and startup times...the underwhelming reality of a substandard GPU will be staring you in the face every second the sim runs.

 

Regards

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Unfortunately, going down a notch with the CPU and graphics card brings the project back within budget. I still don't get to splash out on a 1070.


Oh I misread your proposed GPU.  I think for FSX the 1060 would be plenty assuming 1080P monitor.  The 6600K would be fine too.

 

My monitor is 1650x1050. Your own posted specs are interesting, as you have older CPU and graphics card. How is performance for you with those?

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