Opinions on CPU cooling

[westman 257]

32F ???? Have you dont try a mixed cooling liquid....

Dont embrass your self , Its quite clear you have very little experiance in Extreme cooling.

Best to end this , have a feeling that you dont respect my knowledge in Overclocking and cooling.

 

Cheers

[martin-w 3,235]

If you plan to use one of the giant sized and heavy air cooled fans/heat sink, make sure you keep your motherboard horizontal with the ground ... over time the heavy air coolers combined with the heat will flex the motherboard which could trigger a failure.

 

 

 

Cheers, Rob.

 

 

 

Rob, to state that you must keep your PC horizontal with the ground when using a big tower cooler is totally and utterly untrue. I do despair when I hear this sort of thing. It puts people of big tower coolers when it shouldn't!

 

The Noctua NH-D14/15/15S is equipped with the SecuFirm 2 mounting system. This is a superb spring retention system. The springs act as shock absorbers. If we take Skylake as an example... static load is slightly higher then Intel's recommended max for Skylake, but this is by design, as it improves cooling and isn't an issue after extensive Noctua testing. Dynamic load on the other hand is actually below Intel's recommended max for Skylake.

 

The only time you will find any evidence of damage to motherboards as a result of the weight of the cooler, is when very misguided individuals decide to ship their PC's half way across America with the cooler still attached. This is silly.

 

My old D14 was in no less than three builds over quite a few year, it's now in a fourth, my son's PC. Absolutely no motherboard issues, and no, absolutely no "motherboard warping". But then it wouldn't, as the motherboard is firmly screwed to the motherboard tray.   And no, it absolutely has not been lying flat!

 

The only issue recently in regard to damage to motherboards was as a result of certain Scythe coolers actually crushing the CPU socket. In normal use [and yes, PC vertical] no issues at all. However, one or two individuals found that when moving the PC, if there was a severe impact, the cooler would actually crush the socket. Scythe were very quick to correct the issue and issued a new retention system to affected owners. Worth noting, that Scythe coolers do not have a spring retention system. Also worth noting that dynamic load was way above Intel spec.

 

Also worth remembering that Noctua, [and the majority of cooler manufactures] aren't fools, Noctua engineers test their products thoroughly and deem them fit for purpose.

 

From Noctua...

 

 

 

Is the high weight dangerous for the CPU or socket?No. Noctua coolers possess an extremely reliable SecuFirm™ mounting system. Thanks to the screw connection with the backplate on the rear side of the motherboard, the exceedance of the weight recommendations by Intel and AMD common among high-end coolers is completely unobjectionable.

 

http://noctua.at/en/products/discontinued-products/nh-d14/faq

 

 

 

@Todd--the beefier backplates prevent issues right at the CPU socket a bit better, but Rob is correct that the weight of some of the very large air coolers can torque the entire board, even well away from the socket, and eventually cause issues.  Some of those air coolers weigh 3-4 lbs, and they are tall enough to have a significant moment arm as well.  On one build I actually put a hanger with a small turnbuckle from the top frame of the case to the cooling fin assembly to provide countertorque tension, as I could see the board bending under the weight.

 

Regards

 

 

Sorry... that's nonsense again! Of course it doesn't "eventually cause issues". Your comments are an amalgamation of facts taken out of context and internet pseudoscience. 

 

Your claims are...

 

Diametrically opposed to the experience of thousands of individuals that have had the D14/15/15S installed on their PC's for years! 

Diametrically opposed the extensive testing carried out by Noctua engineers.

Diametrically opposed to my own personal experience with this very cooler over not days, not weeks but years!

 

You do realise that there are numerous individuals on this very forum that have been using large tower coolers for years. Not lying flat as per Rob's somewhat bizarre suggestion, and not suffering the fictitious, catastrophic, board warping disaster you claim?

 

Do you think Noctua engineers are idiots perhaps?

 

Look on the Internet and tell us how many confirmed cases of water leaks from AIO or custom loops you find. Now tell  us how many confirmed cases there are of disastrous motherboard warping from the Noctua.

 

Find me confirmed, definitive cases on google of any NH-D15 owners catastrophic board warping experiences? And I don't mean "I think it might have been the cooler". I mean confirmed cases in normal use. I mean not shipped by a crazy courier across America.

 

Show us definitive evidence please!

 

I'm a bit shocked to see this stuff being propagated by the moderators on this forum. 

 

 

Edit: In an attempt to put an end to this motherboard warping fallacy. Consider the following...

 

We actually know what kind of catastrophic scenario happens to a motherboard as a result of excessive force from the cooler. And no, it's not " motherboard warping. The Scythe cooler incident tells us exactly what happens. The bottom of the cooler base pushes into the CPU, which in turn pushes the CPU into the socket, damaging the socket. 

[martin-w 3,235]

Apologies to the OP for babbling on about this, but it concerns me greatly that when such false claims are made, that it will deter individuals from purchasing coolers like the Noctua that are perfectly fit for purpose and safe in use. Therefore I feel I have a duty to those individuals to counter such claims.

 

 

 

 On one build I actually put a hanger with a small turnbuckle from the top frame of the case to the cooling fin assembly to provide countertorque tension, as I could see the board bending under the weight.

 

Regards

 

 

 

When I first purchased the D14, must have been 6 or 7 years ago now, I too decided to fabricate a support bracket. My intention was to attach it to the D14 and my case with self tapping screws. However, as soon as I installed the cooler, it became immediately apparent that the mounting system was excellent. My support bracket was assigned to the bin.

 

Lying flat, I measured the distance from the bottom of the cooler to the bottom of my case. With case upright I measured a second time, just to see how much if any sag there was. I can't recall the exact measurement, but I recall it was something like one millimetre. That of course is at the "end of the cooler", and given that any downward travel would be in an arc, how much movement do you think there would be close to the motherboard itself? Clearly far less, a fraction of a millimetre. And that's pretty much down to the springs on the retention mechanism compressing slightly.

 

If "your PC must remain flat" and "will eventually damage your motherboard and cause a failure" had any validity at all, the internet would be plastered with it... it's not. There's nothing, zero.

 

Furthermore, if there were any kind of an issue at all, after 7 years, I'm pretty sure Noctua would heave redesigned their product... they haven't, not required.

 

Okay... I have just taken the side panel of my son's PC and looked for this "bending under the weight" you mention. Well, I've not seen it before, and looking a few minutes ago, nothing, not a sausage, no bending at all.

 

I have now just removed the side panel from my Lian Li X510 and examined closely the NH-D15S Attached to the motherboard. I find no significant movement of the cooler at all when I attempt to move it. In addition, the motherboard is completely flat. None of this board bending you mention at all.

 

And the above is from me of course, someone who actually owns both coolers, with firsthand experience!

[jabloomf1230 2,445]

If other parts of the system are trivial, why would anyone pay big $$ for highly overclocked low-latency DDR4 RAM modules, ...

 

Regards

Maybe it's the same reason that people pay good money for heat sinks on RAM chips an flashing blue LEDs on cooling fans.

[Guest]

32F ???? Have you dont try a mixed cooling liquid....

 

Don't understand this statement?  Can you clarify?  Water will freeze below 32F ... Glycol-Water will freeze around -18F (this is a more common mix but not most efficient at heat transfer), Methanol-Water -38 F, etc. etc.  Of course I'm sure you are aware the BEST Thermal Capacity comes with 100% water?

 

A reference for you: http://www.overclockers.com/data-on-coolants-and-liquids-used-in-computer-watercooling/

 

100% water is the best for heat transfer.

 

 

 

Best to end this , have a feeling that you dont respect my knowledge in Overclocking and cooling.

 

This seems to be your modus operandi, I'm not sure why?  If someone disagrees with you, you immediately take offense and then get offensive ... I have plenty of respect for your knowledge, it's your "presentation" that invites conflict.  Put your emotions aside, and present your case without the additional verbal diarrhea.

 

 

Rob, to state that you must keep your PC horizontal with the ground when using a big tower cooler is totally and utterly untrue. I do despair when I hear this sort of thing. It puts people of big tower coolers when it shouldn't!

 

You shouldn't despair when someone presents information you disagree with, you simply disagree and present your case.  I have identified several friends computers over the past 3 decades where huge heat sinks have indeed warped and caused premature failure of motherboards and/or reduce cooling efficiency over time.  

 

I've presented you with the physics/math involved ... you can do the calculations yourself and you'll find that those "springs" they use in those kits are all but useless based on the torque values from a vertical mount.  But yes, people do move their computers with heat sinks attached, it's very common ... but think about what you just said, why would you suggest moving a computer with a huge heat sink "could" present problems?  (it's the same physics with the addition of moment)

 

Cheers, Rob.

[TheFamilyMan 280]

About the "super tower" coolers causing mobo damage. I too was worried somewhat when I installed one, a thermalright silver arrow SB-E, on my latest build 3.5 years ago. No problems yet, though I've been super careful whenever I've moved my computer. IMO if such problems were really something that is going to happen (other than mishandling the computer), it'd be all over the place on the web by now, for these coolers have been commonplace for many years (unless there a been a serious conspiracy to remove all such postings ). I'm not saying it never happens, heck...everything eventually happens somewhere. BTW, this cooler is excellent; even when its fans are at 100%, which they rarely are, it is still super quiet. Much more so than my old computer with its Hyper 212 plus. As for cooling power, it laughs at that 212, keeping my stock lidded 4770k 4.5 OC usually well below 65c in FSX.

[Bob Scott 7,721]

 

 

Sorry... that's nonsense again! Of course it doesn't "eventually cause issues". Your comments are an amalgamation of facts taken out of context and internet pseudoscience.

 

Martin, please don't presume to tell me that what I saw isn't what I saw...I did actually have a mobo visibly bending under the weight of an oversized CPU cooler.  Did it cause problems?  No, as I mentioned, I added support to the top end of the cooler to counterbalance the torque.  Would it have caused problems?  Possibly, possibly not.  It didn't because I observed something I saw as problematic and engineered mitigation, rather than wait around to see if it might ruin my computer.

 

The FAQ quoted above illustrates that these large coolers intentionally exceed the intel design specs for weight.  It's no accident that intel has issued a design spec regarding CPU cooler weight...seems clear their engineers indeed have formally anticipated the possibility of an oversize/overweight cooling unit overstressing the board and/or socket.  Is it your position that the reasoned engineering that went into an intel design specification is "pseudoscience?"

Anyway, based on my own personal experience, I still recommend that anyone using one of these oversized cooling units keep an eye on things.  That's all...just be careful.  Nobody should object to that.

 

Regards

[twharrell 38]

I think there is reasonable caution to take with anything that costs $1500-2000, especially when it depends on a large cooling block or pump circulating liquid. I suppose both can send a lot of money down the drain quickly if proper precautions aren't taken.

 

I sincerely appreciate everyone's opinions. Please don't let this discussion get out of hand and turn personal. Everyone has to choose what is best for himself (or herself) with the info they have. I'm thankful we have a lot of experienced and intelligent people on these forums who are willing to help out their fellow simmers. Let's not forget this is a hobby meant to be enjoyed.

 

I've certainly learned a lot in this thread, so thanks to everyone!

[martin-w 3,235]

Rob Ainscough, on 13 Dec 2016 - 4:52 PM, said:

You shouldn't despair when someone presents information you disagree with, you simply disagree and present your case. I have identified several friends computers over the past 3 decades where huge heat sinks have indeed warped and caused premature failure of motherboards and/or reduce cooling efficiency over time.

 

I've presented you with the physics/math involved ... you can do the calculations yourself and you'll find that those "springs" they use in those kits are all but useless based on the torque values from a vertical mount. But yes, people do move their computers with heat sinks attached, it's very common ... but think about what you just said, why would you suggest moving a computer with a huge heat sink "could" present problems? (it's the same physics with the addition of moment)

 

Cheers, Rob.

 

 

Bold or caps below is not intended as shouting, merely to emphasize important points.  :smile: 

 

You shouldn't despair when someone presents information you disagree with, you simply disagree and present your case.

 

 

No Rob... I have no issue at all with others disagreeing with me, I encourage it, it's how we all learn. What does make me despair though, is when some people post information that has been previously proven to be fallacious. This, "the D15 will warp your board and cause failure" has been posted before, in fact on this forum a number of times. It's often posted definitively, and that's how you and Bob have posted it, as fact, as proven, as unequivocal. Nothing could be further from the truth! Thousands of individuals have D14's, D15's, and D15S coolers attached to their motherboards. Myself for many years. There isn't one proven example of any Noctua cooler warping a board and causing failure. There must be one somewhere, even as a shear fluke! Did they happen in another dimension or something? Where are all the reports, are they in one of the bubble universes proposed by M-Theory?  

 

​You have no proof, just opinion. Everyone is entitled to hold an opinion of course, but nobody is entitled to hold their own facts! And what we must try to do is refrain from posting opinions that aren't supported by evidence. 

 

The problem is, when you and Bob post opinions like this, it deters people from purchasing the cooler. And that's very wrong. If we are going to deter others, intentionally or unintentionally, from making a purchase, we must have solid evidence to back it up.

 

I've presented you with the physics/math involved ... you can do the calculations yourself and you'll find that those "springs" they use in those kits are all but useless based on the torque values from a vertical mount.

 

Rob that's nonsense, and I'm sorry to say and a bit arrogant too. Do you think you know better than the engineers at Noctua that deigned and tested this cooler?

 

Calculations you say. Physics you say... Great isn't it physics? I love it myself, one of the reasons I've been studying physics and writing science fiction for greater than 15 years. But despite Physics being pretty awesome, it's not so awesome when it's wrongly applied. Which is precisely what you've done.

 

But yes, people do move their computers with heat sinks attached, it's very common ... but think about what you just said, why would you suggest moving a computer with a huge heat sink "could" present problems? (it's the same physics with the addition of moment)

 

Because with reasonable care, the reasonable care any sane individual uses when moving a PC, it's perfectly safe! If it wasn't... then PC's would be dropping like fly's and we would have an abundance of evidence on Google..........

 

I own a system with the D14 and the D15S!

 

​Do you believe I never clean them, never move them? Both PC's are cleaned on a very regular basis, when I do they are carried downstairs to my kitchen and serviced on my kitchen table. Yes Rob... they are frequently moved. And that's been the case for approximately 7 years! Guess what? No damage, no warping, no catastrophic failures! 

But of course I take care when I move them, I don't throw them around, that would be utterly stupid. Read my previous posts... I made it clear that the only issues ever reported of damage caused by the Noctua is as a result of systems being shipped large distances with cooler attached.  But in normal use moving a system to clean, the occasional bump or knock... no issues whatsoever. As I said... this comes from experience with these coolers for 7 years!

 

I think we can be quite sure, that nobody on this forum that owns a Noctua cooler, or intends to purchase a Noctua cooler... will be lying them flat on the floor because they are scared of damage. Why... because it's a ludicrous suggestion that simply serves to deter forum members from making a sound purchase unnecessarily.

 

[martin-w 3,235]

About the "super tower" coolers causing mobo damage. I too was worried somewhat when I installed one, a thermalright silver arrow SB-E, on my latest build 3.5 years ago. No problems yet, though I've been super careful whenever I've moved my computer. IMO if such problems were really something that is going to happen (other than mishandling the computer), it'd be all over the place on the web by now, for these coolers have been commonplace for many years (unless there a been a serious conspiracy to remove all such postings ). I'm not saying it never happens, heck...everything eventually happens somewhere. BTW, this cooler is excellent; even when its fans are at 100%, which they rarely are, it is still super quiet. Much more so than my old computer with its Hyper 212 plus. As for cooling power, it laughs at that 212, keeping my stock lidded 4770k 4.5 OC usually well below 65c in FSX.

 

 

 

 

I've taken the liberty of highlighting in bold the important bit.

 

Precisely! Spot on! That's what we refer to as "common sense". Well said!

[martin-w 3,235]

Martin, please don't presume to tell me that what I saw isn't what I saw...I did actually have a mobo visibly bending under the weight of an oversized CPU cooler.  Did it cause problems?  No, as I mentioned, I added support to the top end of the cooler to counterbalance the torque.  Would it have caused problems?  Possibly, possibly not.  It didn't because I observed something I saw as problematic and engineered mitigation, rather than wait around to see if it might ruin my computer.

 

The FAQ quoted above illustrates that these large coolers intentionally exceed the intel design specs for weight.  It's no accident that intel has issued a design spec regarding CPU cooler weight...seems clear their engineers indeed have formally anticipated the possibility of an oversize/overweight cooling unit overstressing the board and/or socket.  Is it your position that the reasoned engineering that went into an intel design specification is "pseudoscience?"

 

Anyway, based on my own personal experience, I still recommend that anyone using one of these oversized cooling units keep an eye on things.  That's all...just be careful.  Nobody should object to that.

 

Regards

 

 

Martin, please don't presume to tell me that what I saw isn't what I saw...I did actually have a mobo visibly bending under the weight of an oversized CPU cooler. 

 

I didn't say you didn't see that. I said I haven't in 7 years. I said there's no evidence anywhere on the internet. Obviously I can't regard one persons claim as definitive and applicable to the majority. It's a sample size of one. Unless you can point me in the direction of numerous others with the same issue, it's not statistically significant. Furthermore, my concern is with coolers available now, top tier coolers, namely the D14/D15/D15S. The D15S especially, as this is the cooler I have advised others to consider. 

 

Some motherboard distortion isn't as big a deal as people think to be honest. Don't think I'd be happy if I observed such a thing though. I had a friend a few years back that bought an Asus board that was very warped. He contacted customer support who informed him that a degree of board warping was regarded as acceptable and not an issue. Can't recall exactly how much it was, but it was a lot over the entire board. 

 

 

 

 

The FAQ quoted above illustrates that these large coolers intentionally exceed the intel design specs for weight.  It's no accident that intel has issued a design spec regarding CPU cooler weight...seems clear their engineers indeed have formally anticipated the possibility of an oversize/overweight cooling unit overstressing the board and/or socket.  Is it your position that the reasoned engineering that went into an intel design specification is "pseudoscience?"

 

 

 

For weight yes. But the important factor is static load and dynamic load. Static load is somewhat higher than Intel spec. This is on purpose, deliberate, by design. I'm not going to comment on other manufactures products, as it's Noctua products I'm familiar with, but what I can tell you is that Noctua engineers tested their coolers thoroughly and deemed that static load being somewhat exceeded was without issue. They do it deliberately because it improves cooling.

 

Dynamic load on the other hand is actually quite a bit lower than Intel spec. This is the important factor of course, because dynamic load is an issue if we bang, bump or drop our PC's with cooler attached. This is when damage usually occurs.

 

As evidenced of course by the Scythe issue. The PC's were functioning fine, no issue, no board warping all good. But due to the fact that the Skylake PCB is somewhat thinner and the fact that the Scythe coolers mounting system was applying "way above" Intel's recommended dynamic load, a severe impact, [dropping the PC] caused the cooler base to push the CPU into the socket causing damage.

 

The FAQ quoted above illustrates that these large coolers intentionally exceed the intel design specs for weight.  It's no accident that intel has issued a design spec regarding CPU cooler weight...seems clear their engineers indeed have formally anticipated the possibility of an oversize/overweight cooling unit overstressing the board and/or socket. 

 

Noctua tell you that the weight is, in their words "unobjectionable". Do you think they are lying? If so you should contact Noctua and enquire. I'm sure they'll put your mind at rest.

 

 

Is it your position that the reasoned engineering that went into an intel design specification is "pseudoscience?"

 

Nope, not at all. But then Intel weren't considering the well designed, very sturdy back plates the majority of the after market coolers posses. After market cooler manufactures have given us a design specification for their cooler mountings that mitigates any such issues. They have circumvented any such issues. And not forgetting that we know that exceeding the Intel weight spec is safe as a result of many years of use. Again... cases of the Noctua coolers and many of the other large tower coolers causing catastrophic damage is conspicuous by it's absence. From that we must conclude that the after market cooler manufactures have been successful in their endeavours. As  we say in the UK, the proof of the pudding is in the eating.

 

There was a bonkers Thermalright design a few years back that was quite frankly nuts. I recall they had attempted to improve cooling with huge pressure. Think it was Thermalright, it was a long time ago. Damage was reported at the time.

[martin-w 3,235]

Regarding the Scythe issue, as that's about the only confirmed case of motherboard damage and excessive mounting pressure...
 

Intel recommend a maximum dynamic comprehensive load of 490 Newtons. The NH-D15 scores 380 Newtons. The Scythe cooler hit 770 Newtons.

 

​No wonder Scythe had issues. That's more than double Noctua's dynamic load. 
 

[Guest]

Martin,

 

Please, life is too short to get this worked up about large heat sinks damaging CPU/Motherboards ... it happens, because you didn't initially have experience with such damage does NOT mean the "Fact" is false ... it just means YOU haven't experienced it.

 

http://techreport.com/news/29396/skylake-cpus-may-be-damaged-by-pressure-from-some-heatsinks

 

http://www.pcgamer.com/intel-skylake-cpus-are-bending-under-the-pressure-of-some-coolers/

 

http://hothardware.com/news/intel-skylake-cpus-are-warping-under-heat-sink-mounting-pressure

 

I can find plenty more instances over the years for different CPUs/motheboards/heat sink, but unfortunately I did not take pictures of my first hand experience with my friend's that had failures from heavy heat sinks ... never thought I would need to  

 

As far as engineers making mistakes, are you kidding me?  I'm an software engineer, my dad was a mechanical/electrical engineer, many of my friends are EE's and some even rocket scientists (not kidding) ... we all make mistakes, we're human.  Noctua uses human engineers also but I doubt Noctua engineers do long term multi-year testing and/or subject their systems to "normal" end user abuse ... if they did, their heat sinks would cost several $1000 US and would have extremely LONG release cycles between new designs ... all engineering is cut short at some point or else there would be no profit.  If everything were designed to perfection the first time, there would never be a need for new improved versions.

 

As far as specific experience with D15, I have none, but there again I never singled out the D15 so not sure why you suggested I did?  But I am wondering if you have some commercial interest in Noctua as you seem extremely defensive of their product line?

 

I see you "edited" out "I'm waiting..." after you discovered real world instances of heat sinks causing failures.  

 

Some hints for more effective ways of debating:

 

1.  Don't get emotional

2.  Politely disagree

3.  Present your information and avoid using words like "never", "all", "everyone", "only"

4.  It's ok to be wrong, It's ok to be right, It's ok to not know ... there is no prize for winning or losing or just ending

5.  Be able to "let it go" ... life is too short

 

Cheers, Rob.

[Dougal 165]

Don't want to 'get involved' so to speak, but I do want to voice NOT my opinion, but my experience, of just yesterday....

For the last 4 years, up until yesterday, my system comprised of a vertically mounted (as per normal) motherboard (Asus P8Z68) and, what is I suspect, one of the heaviest tower coolers ever to be on the market; the amazing Noctua DH14.  Have just read this thread, I've just removed my old motherboard from its box (selling on eBay), and placed it on the glass table.  It's perfectly flat - no sign of any warping or misshaping in any way.  I'm not saying it can't happen, but I do believe with a quality motherboard, and a properly designed cooler, it's most unlikely.

 

The system I had for 5 years before that, was an almost identical setup and, as far as I'm aware, the friend I sold that system to, is still running it as a secondary PC.

[martin-w 3,235]

Martin,
 
Please, life is too short to get this worked up about large heat sinks damaging CPU/Motherboards ... it happens, because you didn't initially have experience with such damage does NOT mean the "Fact" is false ... it just means YOU haven't experienced it.

 

Apologies again for bold, underlining etc. Points are being ignored or missed, so just for emphasis.
 
No Rob... Incorrect on many counts. 1. I'm not worked up. Apologies if you got that impression. Not easy to ascertain these things over the internet because we can't see each others body language, tone of voice etc. 2. It's nothing to do with "me not experiencing it", it's to do with evidence, definitive empirical evidence that up until this post, you and Bob refrained from providing. I will now look at the links you provided and give you my opinion...
 
Your first link...
 
What!       That's the Scythe incident that I've mentioned no less than three times in this very thread! Did you not read it Rob. It's even in the post directly above yours. Again.... the Scythe incident was nothing to do with the catastrophic motherboard warping as a result of cooler weight. It was caused by a combination of the thin Skylake PCB and Scythes outdated mounting system. It had no spring retention system and was exerting a massive 770 Newtons of compressive dynamic load. By the way, that's double the compressive load of Noctua coolers and the majority of other big tower coolers. Did it warp the board? no, it crushed the socket, but only after a severe impact! 
 
Your second link...  That again is the Scythe incident! See above...
 
Your third link....  Again the Scythe incident. 
 
I can find plenty more instances over the years for different CPUs/motheboards/heat sink, 
 
No Rob, you can't, you have provided three links to one incident. An incident I'd already addressed multiple times. No Rob, you can't, I know this because I have researched myself extensively. I know this because I did so again yesterday.
 
I see you "edited" out "I'm waiting..." after you discovered real world instances of heat sinks causing failures
 
Yes, because I feared it might be perceived as rude. But as you insist...
 
​You talk about maths, physics, science, well Rob... science is evidence based. And neither you or Bob have provided any evidence whatsoever. I have asked both you and Bob three times. 
 
This will now be the forth time...
 
Rob... you claim motherboard warping, resulting in catastrophic system failure is a fact with top tier, big tower coolers. Your claims mean nothing at all without evidence. Once again... please find me any incidents where the D14/15/15S has caused motherboard warping and failure of a PC.
 
As far as specific experience with D15, I have none, but there again I never singled out the D15 so not sure why you suggested I did?  But I am wondering if you have some commercial interest in Noctua as you seem extremely defensive of their product line?
 
Of course I have no commercial interest. But I have been advocating the cooler to others for some time. In addition, the OP was deciding between the D15 and an AIO cooler. You then intervened at that point and warned him that he must lie his PC flat with a big cooler. So obviously it's the D15 we are debating here.
 
However... In addition to the request above, please provide any evidence of modern top tier big tower coolers, like the Noctua, like the Phanteks, like the Cryorig, warping motherboards and causing system failure.
 
 

Some hints for more effective ways of debating:

1.  Don't get emotional
2.  Politely disagree
3.  Present your information and avoid using words like "never", "all", "everyone", "only"
4.  It's ok to be wrong, It's ok to be right, It's ok to not know ... there is no prize for winning or losing or just ending
5.  Be able to "let it go" ... life is too short

 

 

Rob, that's very patronising. Rather than that, find me evidence please. Otherwise your claims are meaningless.