Piracy Reports

[crvm 0]

Thought I would ask a few questions and make a few comments that have come to mind after seeing this reporting *tool*. What protection is there for people falsely reported, say, someone with a "grudge" or whatever reason "reports" someone through this system? If false reporter Joe simmer says person A has a warez copy of payware bill's super bird, will person A now have to produce a reciept on an accuser's accusation alone? How exactly does bill go about esablishing what person A has to begin with? What if person A had his wife purchase or uses another (fake name) in the community for privacy? Does person A need a lawyer before talking with bill's lawyer? What if person A does not feel he needs to "explain" anything based upon an ANONYMOUS tipstser's accusation since he is a real customer? I think this road is very bumpy indeed. While I am totally for software protection within the law, I feel that such a *tool* really asks for a "police state" mentality from reporters with everyone now playing big brother when it's not their job to monitor such things or should be. I don't recall bill looking out for my car when it's stolen even though it's everyone's insurance rates that are affected. I see many things that I certainly take a active stand against, I am security in RL but there is just something seriously flawed IMO in this approach to stopping software priates when it does not take everyone's intrests at heart only it's own while proclaiming that "piracy hurts everyone" as a incentive for a bad idea. Are there not better ways to go about protecting one's personal property than asking the comunity to be a, well lack of a better word "snitch"? What is the reported doing on a *site* that even has warez files in the first place? Can't bill hire someone to do the same thing? We all know that IRC is a warez trading hub don't we? Maybe bill should consentrate on taking down the large file sharing sites like Kazza insted of making our rights subject to everyday Joe reporters. Best Wishes,[h4]Randy J. Smith[/h4]http://www.rawbw.com/~bdoolin/shinault/Animation1.gifCaution! Not a real pilot, but do play one on TV ;-)AMD 64 3200+ | NEC LCD 1980SXi 19" | ASUS KV8 DELUXE | GFORCE 5700 ULTRA @535/1000 | Maxtor 6Y080M0 SATA 80 GIG | 512 DDR 400 | Windows Xp Pro |

[crvm 0]

Now, all you softeware developers here is a question for you, why don't you ask of yourselves what you are asking of the community, namely, working "together" to developer or implement better copy protection on your products? It's easy to see who's software is protected the best is it not? I'm sure EA sports sells 100 times more than all of you together with one product like Battlefield 1942 and because of this there are more bad guys spending lots of time and effort to make "cracks" to get around their protection UNLIKE flight simulator add-ons (maybe except flight simulator releases or other full sims on the market) but certainly these "pro crackers" are not spending time on add-on products that do not generate much interest outside OUR community right? Is not piracy protection your responsibility first? I'm sure our support can come in more meaningful ways like a few extra dollars on the final products for you to develope-implement better protection for your products. The flight simulator add-on market certainly is not a large one, we all all aware of supply and demand which of course tells us that a minority of flight simmers are abtaining software through other means (the fact that you are loosing money speaks for itself). There will always be this to deal with, the best protection starts with you... Best Wishes,[h4]Randy J. Smith[/h4]http://www.rawbw.com/~bdoolin/shinault/Animation1.gifCaution! Not a real pilot, but do play one on TV ;-)AMD 64 3200+ | NEC LCD 1980SXi 19" | ASUS KV8 DELUXE | GFORCE 5700 ULTRA @535/1000 | Maxtor 6Y080M0 SATA 80 GIG | 512 DDR 400 | Windows Xp Pro |

[Guest Paragon]

Couldn't agree more with what you have said Randy...I sincerely think this is going down a wrong road. I'm just waiting for the first wrongly public accusation on this board...it could become a huge mess.

[W2DR 1,859]

I somehow missed this one a few days ago. But you're right on the money Randy. I couldn't agree more. A philosophy of "we'll let you anonymously accuse anyone you want" is a sad statement indeed. Virtually all payware, both flightsim and otherwise, is available for free right now to anyone with an internet connection. It would be far more productive to fight the battle against A.B.Games/Warez than ask the community to become an anonymous police force.Doug

[Guest CargoMun]

I thought this whole idea died out with the East-German DDR and its STASI intelligence system ;) :-rollQuick! Rat out ur neighbor!Seriously though. If the software producers cant win the fight by their own and need help from ordinary users then its a sad state we're in and frankly its a lost cause - if not already.

[Guest danowat]

Piracy is bad period.BUT.....is this "initiative" going to alter the fact that people will pirate software?, of course not, there are far mightier organisations who are trying, and failing.Far to much time and effort is being spent on trying to stop piracy, and it will never be stopped, EVER.It has been going on since the year dot, and the ever increasing security measures are making life harder for legitimate customers, whilst the life of a pirate stays the same.Maybe now is the time to stop ploughing so much time and effort into trying to stop an impossible battle?Dan.

[Guest Edam]

It's a totally ridiculous and misguided effort for all the reasons stated above.

[TweakFS 1]

Well this one will probably get popped over to the Hangar Chat forum, but since you ask I will add my bit.I am on the piracy mailing list so I can shed some light here. I think the comparisons to some of the darker periods of our history are a little fanciful. I wonder why this initiative conjures up such ideas? The fear is irrational. The comparisons I can think of are more like some of the helplines where folks are encouraged to call in and report crimes, even anonymously. Does that mean countries that employ this are engaging in such practices as the STASI did? Are innocent folks charged with crimes when there is no proof? Hardly.The reports that have come in so far are not wild accusations, generally they point out a website or newsgroup that are giving out free copies of commercial software. Now what happens next? That's for the developer whose products are involved to work out and if he takes any action he will obviously only do so after having checked the facts himself otherwise he wouldn't have a leg to stand on.It's only ridiculous if your livelihood does not depend on it. I would compare it to having someone walk into your shop and take an item and walk out without paying for it. Would you simply say "Well we know it happens, get over it"? No, you would obviously take any reasonable measures to stop or minimize this and the frequency of it would not diminish your objection to someone cheating you out of what is rightfully yours.

[Guest CargoMun]

Well you are right in certain ways, but there is a slight difference here. To stay in the example with the shop. Of course this will then be the shopowner's responsability (software developer in this case) to stop and catch whoever stole the merchandise.It not up to the shop to put up a sign telling the customers, if you ever heard of anyone or anywhere where somebody has taken something, please let us know!I know its a far fetched comparison with the old STASI and the like - but who draws the line and when? We live in a time and age with "patriot acts" and other misguided laws to officially protect people, but end up doing the exact opposite. Do we want a society where everybody police everybody and end up in Orwellian society?This is as much a philosophical debate as it is a debate about crime.Also, to conclude the little shop example - its not that much the same since if you steal from a shop he wont have the merchandise to sell anymore whereas piracy only copies it and leaves it to be sold anyway.And this is not condoning piracy in any way or form, just to put things into a little perspective.

[Guest danowat]

Ok then, lets hope it works, then payware companies can stop using the ridicolously restrictive (to the paying customer) security measures, which obviously are'nt working in the first placeDan.

[TweakFS 1]

OK let's go back in the shop one more time. :)What if a thrid person is in your shop and witnesses someone take something while your back is turned, would you expect that person to tell you? Would that be "denunciation"?BTW even with an anonymous tip-off it is still the developers responsibility to follow it up. I just don't want people thinking this is a "police state" thing, the comnparison just doesn't fit and is too extreme.Yes you're right it is very philosophical, but when you've worked your butt off for 6 months on something it really does hurt to see it pedalled on a warez site.

[TweakFS 1]

Depends what you mean by "work". If you mean stamping out piracy altogether then obviously it will not work. But if you start with a zero-tolerance toward piracy then it will get you some way along that goal. This is not a reluctance to accept that piracy will happen, as is suggesed on another post, every developer knows that obviously, but it is a refusal to accept that it should be allowed to go on without taking some measure. Some developers don't care, others do.I understand your thought re the overdone security. My own software has very little protection and in some cases none! Striking a balance isn't easy and out of sheer frustration some have gone to the extreme, but they were pushed, sometimes their products appear withing hours of release on the warez sites - not nice.

[Guest CargoMun]

>What if a thrid person is in your shop and witnesses someone>take something while your back is turned, would you expect>that person to tell you? Would that be "denunciation"?Well thats a valid point of course :)My main gripe with this mainly is that it could lead to abuse like stated earlier above, its a dangerous road to take.Anonymous tip-offs especially tends to make me cringe my feet. You end up thinking, well whats this persons motivations if any.Reporting a warez site - well thats a honorable venture endeed, but as soon as 1 closes - 10 more pop up. I just dont see how this "battle" can be won with the means available at the moment.I guess bottom line is, I just cant make sense as to how this will help in the greater scheme of things other then a small (rightfully so) satisfaction of seeing 1 out of maybe 1000 websites closed with one's work put up.Piracy or the old term "bootlegging" has always been around ever since old 60's taperecorders and early 70's computers. How many people on this forum alone havent at one time or another played a shady copy of a C64 game.I still believe that piracy wont ever hurt a product as much as quality of it will make it a hit. This goes for wichever product, music, clothes or software.

[gosta 0]

>What if a thrid person is in your shop and witnesses someone take something while your back is turned, would you expect that person to tell you? Would that be "denunciation"?http://www.hifisim.com/images/as2betateam.jpg

[TweakFS 1]

Well your concern about abuses are certainly understandable, but let me assure you that none of the reports have read "Person X is giving out pirated registration keys". That would be meaningless anyway. They are more like "Site (or newsgroup) X is handing out pirated copies of ...". How can this be confirmed or discounted? A quick visit to the site will suffice. I know that one of the major developers is actually bringing legal action against several individuals right now (probably ring-leaders) so believe you me it does lead to something.