JWMuller

The TOGA?? And takeoff!

Recommended Posts

Hello Avsim Members!

In this forum I am asking you about the TOGA when taking off. My question is (and there are more), What is it?? Is it the autothrottle??

Basically, I watch videos on flight simming, like Matt Davies, Q8Pilot and many others. Most of the time, when taking off, I hear a switch flicked at takeoff and I hear them say 'and TOGA'. ?????

See the vid here: https://youtu.be/-V7CmyKmZs0?t=11m34s

I hope the link opened up. OK So my questions are:

What is it?  What is it for? Where can I find it? When do I use it? And finally, Is it the autothrottle?

Please also include pictures such as where can I find it, if it is not the autothrottle.

Thanks,

JWMuller:biggrin::biggrin:

Share this post


Link to post
Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

Well, right off the bat, there is this good explanation:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takeoff/Go-around_switch

As for it's activation, that varies from one aircraft to another, either by use of the button on the throttle quadrant, or with a shortcut programmed into the V/C (like a screw on the MCP, which PMDG is famous for).

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
39 minutes ago, Jimm said:

Well, right off the bat, there is this good explanation:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takeoff/Go-around_switch

As for it's activation, that varies from one aircraft to another, either by use of the button on the throttle quadrant, or with a shortcut programmed into the V/C (like a screw on the MCP, which PMDG is famous for).

Where is the button? If you can, please include an image.

Share this post


Link to post
Just now, JWMuller said:

Where is the button? If you can, please include an image.

I'm not around the sim, at the moment, but for the proper button, go here: https://www.google.com/search?q=throttle+quadrant&rlz=1C1CHWA_enUS600US600&espv=2&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwidgJmb99XSAhVHfhoKHSQKAt4Q_AUIBygC&biw=1854&bih=926#tbm=isch&q=TO/GA+button&*

This shows various quadrants and where to locate the button or click region. :)

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
On 14/03/2017 at 2:10 PM, Jimm said:

Well, right off the bat, there is this good explanation:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takeoff/Go-around_switch

As for it's activation, that varies from one aircraft to another, either by use of the button on the throttle quadrant, or with a shortcut programmed into the V/C (like a screw on the MCP, which PMDG is famous for).

Hmmm... Does it do a go around? Is a go around a missed aproach where you have to follow the traffic pattern again to land? Why is it called a 'go around' switch?

Thanks,

JWMuller

Share this post


Link to post
On 14/03/2017 at 2:10 PM, Jimm said:

Well, right off the bat, there is this good explanation:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takeoff/Go-around_switch

As for it's activation, that varies from one aircraft to another, either by use of the button on the throttle quadrant, or with a shortcut programmed into the V/C (like a screw on the MCP, which PMDG is famous for).

Wait, Where is the screw on the MCP? Is it on the A/P dashboard in the middle?

Share this post


Link to post
2 hours ago, JWMuller said:

Wait, Where is the screw on the MCP? Is it on the A/P dashboard in the middle?

Keep in mind that the actual TOGA switch, at least on the Boeing jets based on documentation I've looked at for the Boeing 747-400 and some videos, is somewhere on the thrust levers. Since it isn't exactly easy to reach that button in the simulator without physically looking at the thrust levers, PMDG simplified the process by making the screw the clickspot for it. You wouldn't click on the screw on an actual plane.

Share this post


Link to post
10 minutes ago, Captain Kevin said:

You wouldn't click on the screw on an actual plane.

So that's why I failed my check ride...  (just kidding :cool:)

Good explanation Kevin; just to add some aircraft have a detent on the throttle quadrant (airbus) that when reached sets TOGA.  

 

Share this post


Link to post
On 3/19/2017 at 7:32 PM, Captain Kevin said:

Keep in mind that the actual TOGA switch, at least on the Boeing jets based on documentation I've looked at for the Boeing 747-400 and some videos, is somewhere on the thrust levers. Since it isn't exactly easy to reach that button in the simulator without physically looking at the thrust levers, PMDG simplified the process by making the screw the clickspot for it. You wouldn't click on the screw on an actual plane.

Thank you, is the screw on the throttle quadrant in PMDG?

Share this post


Link to post

If you have a joystick controller with  a throttle lever, just assign the FS TOGA command to a button on your stick which is near the throttle lever, that would be very similar to what is in the real aeroplane. If you don't have a throttle with a suitable button, just use CTRL+SHIFT+G on your keyboard.

Share this post


Link to post
19 hours ago, JWMuller said:

Thank you, is the screw on the throttle quadrant in PMDG?

On the PMDG Boeing 747-400 V3 (I can't vouch for any other plane since I don't have them apart from the Boeing 747-400 V1, and even then, I've never used the TOGA switch on that plane, so I don't even know where it is), if you're sitting in the Captain's seat, there is a screw to the left of the Auto-throttle switch. If you're sitting in the First Officer's seat, there is a screw to the right of the autopilot master buttons.

Share this post


Link to post
On 19/03/2017 at 1:36 PM, JWMuller said:

Hmmm... Does it do a go around? Is a go around a missed aproach where you have to follow the traffic pattern again to land? Why is it called a 'go around' switch?

Thanks,

JWMuller

The switch does not actually make the aircraft perform a go around, although it does help you to perform one. There is a caveat to this however, on most Airbus aeroplanes, engaging TOGA actually does make the aircraft go into a climb manoeuvre.

On pretty much every airliner, if you are on an approach to land, your autopilot/nav radios will be set up in 'approach mode', with the radios tuned to the ILS frequency. Because of that, if you simply shoved the throttles forward to abandon your landing, you would certainly speed up, but you would also keep on descending on the ILS glideslope. So if instead of simply ramming the throttle forward, if you engaged TOGA, doing so will disengage any autopilot settings which are making the aeroplane perform a descent, as well as increasing the throttle. That's the 'GA' bit of TOGA.

The 'TO' bit of TOGA is, is for take-offs and works like this: When you put all the correct info into the flight management computer (FMC) of an airliner, such as runway length, runway heading, runway incline, surface conditions, wind speed and direction, weight of your aeroplane, cost index, thrust reduction setting - which is referred to as a 'reduced thrust take off' on a Boeing, but is called a 'flex temp take off' (flexible temperature) on an Airbus (and some Fokker airliners) - the aircraft will calculate the V-speeds necessary for a take-off, and will display them on your Primary Flight Display; it does that so you know when to rotate the nose up for a climb out off the runway and (should an emergency occur whilst on your take off roll) also lets know if you have enough runway left to brake to a halt. But if you want the autothrottle to assist with the take off, instead of simply shoving the throttles forward when you are on the runway, you instead advance them to about 60 percent (so that they can run up and stabilise properly), and then you engage TOGA. Doing that will make the throttles advance only to the point necessary to develop the correct thrust setting to allow the aeroplane to take off safely within the available runway length, which it knows because you put all that info into the FMC. Because TOGA doesn't take the throttles to maximum power, fuel economy is improved and there is less wear on the engines because they operate at a reduced temperature.

Even though there is only one TOGA switch, the aeroplane knows whether you want it in a TO, or in a GA mode, because there are weight sensors on the aeroplane's undercarriage which tell it whether it is on the ground or not, so if they are tripped owing to there being weight on the wheels, it knows you want a take off, and if they aren't and there is no weight on the wheels, it knows you want a go around.

Using TOGA to perform a take off also reduces noise levels, which was particularly important back when airliners all had low-bypass turbojets (these are the narrow-diameter engines you see on aircraft such as the early Boeing 737-100s and 200s, DC-8s, Boeing 707s etc), which are incredibly noisy owing to them putting a high speed jet blast out of the back. More modern high bypass turbofans put less blast out of the rear jet pipe and have lobe mixers which also reduce noise levels (these are the much wider-diameter engines you see on later 737s, A320s etc). But high-bypass turbofans can still be fairly noisy at high thrust settings, and airlines can be fined if they make too much noise at an airport.

The reduced thrust take off technique dates back to 1967, when the calculations for it had to be worked out manually, since there were no FMCs on airliners in those days. It was the budget airline, Laker Airways which first started using the reduced thrust procedure on their brand new BAC 1-11 jet airliners in order to save money on how much fuel they used for take offs and climbing up to cruise altitude. The BAC 1-11 had incredibly noisy Rolls Royce Tay turbojet engines, so the technique also made Laker's take offs a bit quieter than every other airline, as an additional cost saving benefit, they got less fines for making too much noise than other airlines. Rolls Royce made it known that when Laker's Tay engines came in for servicing, they were in far better condition than any other engines they saw from other airlines, which also reduced the cost of servicing them and meant they had to be serviced less often. When other airlines learned of this, and how much money it could save them, they all started adopting the technique. As a result, airline manufacturers added the capability for the newly developed FMCs to be able to calculate those settings for reduced thrust take offs and started putting TOGA switches on the throttles of their newly developed airliners.

And to answer the other bit of your question, it is called a 'go around' because years ago, aeroplanes would fly a box-shaped circuit over the airfield before coming in to land. If they had to abort the landing, they would throttle up and then 'go around' for another circuit in order to try again. The name for the procedure stuck, even though these days when you perform a go around, you will tend to fly straight ahead and then either be directed by ATC where to go next, or you will follow a 'missed approach procedure' on a chart, which normally takes you to a holding point where you circle around in a racetrack oval pattern, and await a new clearance to land from ATC.

 

Share this post


Link to post
16 hours ago, Chock said:

If you have a joystick controller with  a throttle lever, just assign the FS TOGA command to a button on your stick which is near the throttle lever, that would be very similar to what is in the real aeroplane. If you don't have a throttle with a suitable button, just use CTRL+SHIFT+G on your keyboard.

Thank you!

Share this post


Link to post
8 hours ago, Captain Kevin said:

On the PMDG Boeing 747-400 V3 (I can't vouch for any other plane since I don't have them apart from the Boeing 747-400 V1, and even then, I've never used the TOGA switch on that plane, so I don't even know where it is), if you're sitting in the Captain's seat, there is a screw to the left of the Auto-throttle switch. If you're sitting in the First Officer's seat, there is a screw to the right of the autopilot master buttons.

I really appreciate your help! I'm beginning to get this! Never mind if you don't have the other PMDG's.

 

Share this post


Link to post
8 hours ago, Chock said:

The switch does not actually make the aircraft perform a go around, although it does help you to perform one. There is a caveat to this however, on most Airbus aeroplanes, engaging TOGA actually does make the aircraft go into a climb manoeuvre.

 

Thanks for the wonderful explanation. Where do I find the ILS Freq. Box? Is it below the Normal Radio box?

Because in the 737 I see Below the APU, ENG1 and ENG2 FIRE switches there is a radio frequency box. I sthe ILS one underneath it?

Thanks 

JWMuller

Share this post


Link to post

Here is where the radios for the ILS are:

737_zpszz4gaqpp.jpg

It will be easier for you to understand all of this stuff if you do for example, the PMDG Tutorial 1, which you can find on your PC's 'All Programs' menu.

The flight is from EGKK - London Gatwick in England, to EHAM - Amsterdam Schiphol, in the Netherlands. It takes about five minutes to set up the route in the FMC, and just over an hour to fly it and involves telling you everything you need to know to take off from Runway 08R, then fly the Clacton Five Papa (CLN5P) departure, then follow a series of airway waypoints to join the REDFA1A arrival for an the ILS approach to Runway 18R into Schiphol.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
15 hours ago, JWMuller said:

I really appreciate your help! I'm beginning to get this! Never mind if you don't have the other PMDG's.

It certainly helps to read the manuals, as they will tell you where the clickspots are.

Share this post


Link to post
On 3/22/2017 at 11:24 PM, Chock said:

Here is where the radios for the ILS are:

 

It will be easier for you to understand all of this stuff if you do for example, the PMDG Tutorial 1, which you can find on your PC's 'All Programs' menu.

The flight is from EGKK - London Gatwick in England, to EHAM - Amsterdam Schiphol, in the Netherlands. It takes about five minutes to set up the route in the FMC, and just over an hour to fly it and involves telling you everything you need to know to take off from Runway 08R, then fly the Clacton Five Papa (CLN5P) departure, then follow a series of airway waypoints to join the REDFA1A arrival for an the ILS approach to Runway 18R into Schiphol.

 

 

Thanks! I was always thinking if that was the ILS? Does it do VOR and NDB as well?

Share this post


Link to post
On 3/23/2017 at 3:53 AM, Captain Kevin said:

It certainly helps to read the manuals, as they will tell you where the clickspots are.

Oh yes, I think I should read the manual.

Thanks

Share this post


Link to post

Hmmm, Now Im thinking about the Airbus, the Aerosoft A320 more  specifically, Where is the TOGA button in it? Do I just press the Autothrottle and then press Speed?

Thanks,

JWMuller

Share this post


Link to post

No, Airbus have a very different operating philosophy whereby the thrust levers themselves act as mode selectors. There are detents which determine the autothrust mode (or not), and placing the thrust levers in to the appropriate detent causes the autothrust mode to change as appropriate.

Pushing the thrust levers full forward gives TOGA mode, however more commonly a reduced takeoff thrust will be used which involves using the FLX detent.

All of this is explained and outlined very clearly in the documentation supplied with the Aerosoft Airbus, of course.

Share this post


Link to post
On 3/26/2017 at 5:57 PM, skelsey said:

No, Airbus have a very different operating philosophy whereby the thrust levers themselves act as mode selectors. There are detents which determine the autothrust mode (or not), and placing the thrust levers in to the appropriate detent causes the autothrust mode to change as appropriate.

Pushing the thrust levers full forward gives TOGA mode, however more commonly a reduced takeoff thrust will be used which involves using the FLX detent.

All of this is explained and outlined very clearly in the documentation supplied with the Aerosoft Airbus, of course.

Ah thanks

Share this post


Link to post

If you can't find NAV Radio's check the blackberry looking box, NAV RAD button. :)

pcdu3.jpg

 

Share this post


Link to post
On 28/03/2017 at 0:39 PM, AoA said:

If you can't find NAV Radio's check the blackberry looking box, NAV RAD button. :)

 

 

Thanks

Share this post


Link to post

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now