Bob,>Sorry, still don't see how that is realistic. You are>stating, if I am reading this correctly, that you hold the>yoke in a certain position and you have an auto trim function>that then moves the trim wheel by itself without any other>input from the pilot. How is that more realistic whenyou are>not "controlling anything"? actually the sim-pilot has to move the stick from the deflected position back to neutral - only for that bitof movement RealTrim will apply the change to the trim-wheel.the pilot HAS to give his input - movement of stick - whichis applied to the trim-wheel :) the stick de facto becomesthe trim wheel as long as it takes to perform that smooth movement back to neutralend-result: trimmed plane (elevator deflection was compensatedfor by trim), stick neutral (no more pressure felt on the stick)this is realistic in terms of that it needs one movement ofthe pilot to trim his plane - in real-life that's the wheel,with RealTrim it's the stick. Without RealTrim the sim-pilot has make two movements - the stick to neutral AND the wheel to match thatCheersNils

So you are saying..that if I use the Yoke (fron center to push down of yoke) to push the nose down. The aircraft will remain nose down even though the stick has moved back to its center positions after I take my hand off the yoke?Manny

Hi Manny>So you are saying..that if I use the Yoke (fron center to>push down of yoke) to push the nose down. The aircraft will>remain nose down even though the stick has moved back to its>center positions after I take my hand off the yoke?yes - you push the stick forward like in a real-plane to get a forward pitch - you move the stick back to neutral holding the trim key - you take your hands off the yoke - the plane hasn't changed its forward position one bitnote: once the airspeed changes you'll have to retrim again like in a real plane - RealTrim is not a "pitch auto-hold" but a converter of yoke into trim-wheel movement while you move the joystick smoothly into neutral and hold the trim-key. hope that clarifies it :)CheersNils

>>The sim-pilot with a joystick that always wants back to>neutral can't trim out that force - one applies trim but>the joystick still wants to go back!Thanks God for the MS SW Force Feedback Joy Stick and of course FSForce software by Dirks. I don`t have that problem:-) Regards,Jorge Niny

I tried it on my laptop with a joystick.. Hmmm... this takes getting used to I guess.Manny

>actually the sim-pilot has to move the stick from the >deflected position back to neutral - only for that bit>of movement RealTrim will apply the change to the trim-wheel.>I use a hatswitch on my Saitek X-45 joystick in the same way Bob uses the yoke buttons to trim out the "forces". Of course the "force" is nothing more than the joystick spring combined with what you see on the screen. The fact, that the stick is actually returning to a neutral spring position, is very suttle and un-noticed, yet the effect is very life like. Basically, a joystick with electric trim.The only difference between my setup, use, and "feel" of a real airplane, is that MSFS is usually a bit more sensitive when trying to get the sweet spot of not climbig or descending a bit.L.Adamson

>Hi Manny>>>So you are saying..that if I use the Yoke (fron center to>>push down of yoke) to push the nose down. The aircraft will>>remain nose down even though the stick has moved back to its>>center positions after I take my hand off the yoke?>>yes - you push the stick forward like in a real-plane to get a>forward pitch - you move the stick back to neutral holding the>trim key - you take your hands off the yoke - the plane hasn't>changed its forward position one bit>>note: once the airspeed changes you'll have to retrim again>like in a real plane - RealTrim is not a "pitch auto-hold" but>a converter of yoke into trim-wheel movement while you move>the joystick smoothly into neutral and hold the trim-key. >>hope that clarifies it :)>>Cheers>Nils>>>>>Well I am going back to what I said a few post's back. When I flew this 29 million dollar Training simulator that the airlines feel is accurate enough to completely train their pilots to the point that they kind fly passengers , when they are checked out in the sim it was like this: The airline sim's trim control, in no way, behaved the way you are describing this new program's behavior. It behaved as I have described, you set the pitch with the yoke, you adjusted trim which allowed you to release either forward or back pressure on the yoke to maintain the same pitch attitude that you want, and when the forward or back pressure was neutral , you released the trim button...... That is the way the people that fly for a living do it, and that is the way my Ch Yoke and FS9 is set up, and that is the way I do it when I fly a real aircraft. I fail to see how this can be improved upon and I doubt if Boeing or CAE would see it either......

>>The sim-pilot with a joystick that .. wants back to neutral>MS SW Force Feedback Stick and .. FSForce good tip, thanks Jorge - that's the ultimate solution for those with a ff joystick :)RegardsNils

Hey Bob>If I flew a real plane that did what you are describing, I>would be wishing I had brought a parachute along :)disclaimer: "RealTrim is for FS planes only and not recommended for real planes that have actual workingtrim-tabs" :)(maybe i should put that in the fine-print for the lawyers)CheersNils

>Hey Bob>>>If I flew a real plane that did what you are describing, I>>would be wishing I had brought a parachute along :)>>disclaimer: "RealTrim is for FS planes only and not >recommended for real planes that have actual working>trim-tabs" :)>>(maybe i should put that in the fine-print for the lawyers)>>Cheers>NilsBut what we are talking about is the premise that this makes FS9 more like the real thing and in fact it does the opposite.

Bob,>But what we are talking about is the premise that this makes>FS9 more like the real thing and in fact it does the>opposite.oh, ok, i guess i missed your point - i might have been responding to a different post of yours about bringing along a parachute :)>When I flew this 29 million dollar Training simulator ...>you set the pitch with the yoke, you adjusted trim >which allowed you to release either forward or back >pressure on the yoke it sounds like you're describing a setup where the yokeactually stays in the same position when you trim awaythe back/forward pressure. If that's so (i hope one getsthat for $29 million) then yes, it behaves exactly like a real-airplane and I do the same in the real-world.>that is the way my Ch Yoke and FS9 is set upthat's what i don't understand - when you pull on the CHYoke and then trim backwards with your trim buttons,doesn't the yoke still want to return forward again? Mabyethat's where CH Yoke and joysticks differ?In the 'normal' case of a return-to-center joystick/yokeyou can't trim like in real-life. Here I have to move thestick forward and trim backwards at the same time ...that's different from real-life and the 29 mio simulator(I hope).So that's where RealTrim comes in as described above nudging something unrealistic a tad in the directionof more realistic and easier to do. Trimming in real-lifeis really very simple and accurate, right? In FS it'sa pain to hit that sweet-spot between moving the stickto center and applying enough trimming key-clicks imhoCheersNils

This is more like an attitude hold than a RealTrim to me.

nilsca, in your readme note, you stated "and move the elevator input. The trim effectiveness is shown as a number between 0.5 and 1.5. ".Is that a full stroke, either forwards or backwards? And then you press enter? I do apologize, but I've messed with this quite abit lost in Austria in My Taylor aircraft. And all this up and down looking at nothing but desert has me in a bit of a thirst.Really tho-- I'm intrigued by this. Forget the fact that its not spinning a wheel in the floor or a microswitch on the yoke. I'm in Microsoft Flight Simulator.Thanks, JimC.

<>FS trim functionality is significantly influenced by specific rigs and custom settings but I don't share your experience on my PFC rig.ITRW, I also don't share your experience of a half second trim out time...except, I suppose, in cases where extremely minor trim adjustments might be necessary like...just for example, you elect to increase or decrease MP (or RPM) slightly.But in other instances where trim is a major issue...for example when leveling off at a specific altitude after climb out, it takes a great deal longer to trim out the aircraft than a half second...at least it does for me...because as speed builds constantly upon leveling off, so too does the need for trim.The acceleration time from climb out speed to cruise speed obviously varies for lots of reasons and from one airplane to the next but I would guess than on most GA aircraft, at least 30 seconds would elapse between climb and cruise speeds and you can't just target a given trim wheel position, in advance, because you would be over-trimmed and have to hold yoke pressure until cruise speed is reached.In fact, to achieve zero need for yoke pressure, trim movement would be continuous so long as airspeed changes are continuous. (that assumes perfect precision which is not realistic, of course. ITRW, (in my experience) it is more trim a little...accelerate a little, trim a little more etc. etc.My experience is the same as the others who, say, on climb out, adopt a certain amount of back pressure and then trim until that pressure is no longer needed.Regards,Jim

<>Fully agree...but...<>I may be misunderstanding your post and apologize if so, but as written, that would not be correct IMHO.Trim does not make the stick stay in a deflected position but rather permits the deflected position to be released due to the offsetting force resulting from deflection of the trim tab.Regards,Jim