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Guest nilsca

RealTrim

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Guest nilsca

Thanks Jim & Avcomwareall my fault - wrong compiler switches and this thingis depending on tons of MS DLLs - sorry for havingto revert to testing it on your computers :)New version uphttp://www.meiers.net/nils/RealTrim0-9d.zipThere are not more dependencies in it as far as I cansee and hopefully it'll work with the contained ini -no tweaking. ThanksNils

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Adverse Yawn's description is the correct technique for trimming.

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Acknowledged. Sounds like a useful utility. Many thanks for your valuable contribution, Nils.

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Hi, Nils.It seems to work very well, Ver0.9d, with the JS button. To clarify the "Generic", can / should be used when or if the active aircraft cannot be detected properly, best to forget the idea, seems like you got that resolved. Is there a technique that anyone found for very small adjustments, like during Cruise? I've still not been able to master that properly. It may be a function of the TrimEffectiveness step? It is my hope that MS will give us access to the Accuracy of the Trim, other than the ".air / .cfg" combo, in the next version.Thanks again. TV

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Guest nilsca

thanks for the update avcomware,glad it works now :)>Is there a technique that anyone found for very small>adjustments, like during Cruise? I've still not been able to>master that properly. I found that tiny adjustments of trim during cruisework ok with RealTrim as well but tapping MS's trimforward/backwards key seems better suited for that.The amount of trim changed for a simple tap for/backwardsis too big for lots of planes though. I might be ableto add a switch that intercepts this ... let me seewhat I can find.RegardsNils

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Guest av84fun

EDIT:Let me partially correct myself while leaving the essential intent of my post in tact. In fact, on further reflection, during the period of acceleration from climb to cruise flight, I maintain SOME minor forward pressure on the yoke but trim off MOST of it for the reasons perviously cited.But regarding the contrary advice...i.e. not to touch trim until the full acceleration has occured is, IMHO, merely making extra, unnecessary work and neglects the central purpose of the trim mechanism.To maintain trim for, say, an 80 kt. climb out, all the way to the achievement of, say, 120 kt. cruise speed...a FIFTY PERCENT INCREASE in speed with its related boost in lift and therefore, the need to maintain forward pressure...is not IMHO, the optimal solution.Regards,Jim

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Hi, Nils.Another thing that may work, I wrote an .xml that read the FSUIPC in FS8 but it became payware in FS9, was to read the VSI value at the time of the key / button activation, then adjust the attitude / trim to maintain that rate. I am not sure if that is something you want to play with, while that may not be realistic, but that would be a great way to alleviate the trim hassle. If you set the numbers, i.e. Power by the pilot, VSI rate you read, then adjust the attitude / trim to maintain that.The way the FS is designed the VSI seems to be the most sensitive instrument for Attitude / Altitude deviation information. In FS that would save a lot of time. Thanks again, don't spend too much time on the fine adjustments, it may be very difficult to read a very small change. TV

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Guest Adverse Yawn

>>But regarding the contrary advice...i.e. not to touch trim until the >>full acceleration has occured is, IMHO, merely making extra, >>unnecessary work and neglects the central purpose of the trim >>mechanism.Yes I quite agree. Of course you can add a shot or two of nose down trim to relieve the stick pressure, but it shouldn't be anymore than that and one shouldn't, in view view, attempt to trim the aircraft until one's aircraft is speed stable.

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Guest Adverse Yawn

My doctor assured me that my worst eye was 20/20 - LOL

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Guest av84fun

<>Hey! We agree on something! That pleases me.Because I was quite surprised at the differences of opinion on this topic, I posted the following to the AOPA Member forum site and have received 3 replies, so far, all of which were in agreement with my technique.To be quite frank, I was very surprised to re-read several instructional manuals that advocated the "don't trim until cruise speed has been reached" advice. Just goes to show that much in the literature needs to be taken as starting points and then refined by personal experience and preferences.So far, I am 3-0 in my favor from AOPA pilots.Jim's Post"Many instructional publications, including AOPA Flight Training suggest essentially the following procedure for triming from climb to cruise flight.1. Accelerate from climb to cruise speed while holding forward yoke pressure.2. Upon reaching cruise speed, set throttle to cruise setting.3. Trim for cruise speed.The above procedure requires the maintenance of substantial forward yoke pressure as the aircraft accelerates...rather substantially from, say, an 80 kt. climb speed to a 120 kt. cruise speed in many light aircraft.To avoid the necessity of holding so much forward yoke pressure, I have always trimmed off most...but not all...forward yoke pressure with the trim wheel or button...just as I do, and is widely recommended, in trimming from take off to climb speed.I don't understand why anyone would want to hold major forward yoke pressure i.e. no trim at all...duriing the time of acceleration from climb to cruise speed. Could someone enlighten me??THANKS"Replies<><><>

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Re: "the don't trim till cruise speed has been reached."My first instructor 17 years ago drummed into me to trim immediately any time a pitch change is made. His logic was that if you became incapcitated for some reason the plane would at least fly itself reasonably well at that setting.He should know-one of his relatives took off-had a heart attack and died-the plane flew itself happily for a couple hours and put itself down nicely in a field without hurting anyone-and a relatively good self landing.Just food for thought.....Also-on a bigger plane (like my Baron)-the control pressure can be quite a bit heavy-I am not sure I'd want to hold forward control pressure (fighting) until after setting the throttles in my Baron-I'm just a little guy with limited strength! :-)So I guess I am the 4rth aopa vote!http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpg

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Guest av84fun

<>It's now 5-0 for my way (our way)on the forum so you would actually be one of 6.I'm going to encourage AOPA Flight Training to rethink its recommendations on that subject...as should others who may have been taught..."the hard way.":-)Jim

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Guest av84fun

OK, it's 9-0 my way, over on the AOPA forum...plus Geofa who posted here is 10 plus me is 11-0.So, I am going to rest my case by copying one of the typical responses because it happens to have been authored by one of THE most respected contributors to that forum who's name I don't feel it is appropriate to mention here but who's credentials include:ATP-ASMEL, CFI-ASME-IABut the thread is available to the public...so here is the link for verification purposes http://forums.aopa.org/showthread.php?t=7510Here is his response:"I start trimming as soon as I start pushing the nose over. I see no reason why you can't do two things at once. I fine tune the trim as it accelerates, and one last time after the power is set for cruise. I probably trim more than three other pilots on this board put together, and it makes flying a lot easier."His is EXACTLY my technique which was tought to me by a truly legendary flight instructor and which has never been criticized by any of the dozens of instructors and examiners with whom I have flow over the decades. Not once...not ever.So, for those who, rather pompously IMHO, suggested that "every other flight instructor on the planet" would teach another method, and/or that their way "is correct" (to the exlusion of any other) I would suggest A) that you have been shown to be quite wrong....B)to not be a slave to ANY recommendation but rather be willing to continue learning, which in aviation, is a never ending process...or should be.So, to end my contribution to this thread, let me repeat the way that I do it...the way that works FOR ME. Try it maybe?1. Trim for climb out speed.2. Round out to cruise altitude by applying forward yoke pressure.3. As airspeed builds from cruise, apply a TOUCH (whatever that might be on your rig) of nose down trim so that MOST of the forward pressure can be relaxed while altitude is maintained.4. As airspeed continues to build, reapplying forward yoke pressure will be required to prevent further climb, at which point you input another TOUCH of trim.5. Continue the process until target cruise speed and altitude have been SLIGHTLY exceed at which point, reduce power and adjust prop/mixture as required.6. Settle back down to target cruise speed and altitude and adjust trim, as required.NOTE RE: Altitude. I am not in the camp that believes there is a "step". Some say it exists, others of equal credentials think it does not. I don't exceed target altitude slightly because I'm trying to "get on the step" but rather because ITRW pilots rarely round out EXACTLY to the foot at cruise altitude and I would rather err on the side of being slightly high and correct downward than slightly low and have to correct upward...for obvious reasons.Hope some find this useful. It works the same in the sim as ITRW.Regards,JimPS: RE: AOPA. That organization has amassed an utterly fantastic and unbelievable body of information concerning all things flying much of which, including plate downloads can be accessed for free.RW pilots and simmers alike would hugely benefit by becoming more familiar with its site.For a little more than the price of a single add-on you can join and get access to the entire ENORMOUS array of member benefits including fabulous weather and flight planning tools plus you get AOPA Pilot magazine which ALONE is worth the membership price.Just felt that having quoted their forums (which are publically viewable) I should give them the above plug.Jim

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Loaded on my rig this time, and works as advertised now. I still use the control key so that i'll be doing some of that infamouse "Pilot Input". Haven't even tried it on default planes yet.Thanks a lot. JimC.


Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-10700F CPU @ 2.90GHz (8 cores) Hyper on, Evga RTX 3060 12 Gig, 32 GB ram, Windows 11, P3D v6, and MSFS 2020 and a couple of SSD's

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