Well using the buttons on the Yoke to set the trim, I find you can make fine incrimental changes, IF your sensitivities on the controls are set the way I do. A quick press on the button, makes very little change, it takes 2-4 to make a noticable change.

It isn't the amount of change-it is the settling down and maintaining a trimmed condition once trimmed. As avcomware mentioned above-it is not unusual for a stable, well trimmed real plane to fly pretty close to its' trimmed altitude for a while. A friend I fly in an arrow with doesn't get altitude hold on his autopilot, as his arrow will usually hold within 50-75 ft. up to a minute at a time in calm conditions. My Baron is a little more twitchy-but nothing like fs. I usually try to fly with little or no altitude deviation in real life-with fs it is a continual hunting up and down, constant retrimming with more ocillations-and way too sensitive.I think Brucek above was talking about real atc-not fs atc.And yes-I try to keep within 50 ft. -even +-0...almost impossible in Fs-not so hard in the real bird.http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpg

>It isn't the amount of change-it is the settling down and>maintaining a trimmed condition once trimmed. As avcomware>mentioned above-it is not unusual for a stable, well trimmed>real plane to fly pretty close to its' trimmed altitude for a>while. >>A friend I fly in an arrow with doesn't get altitude hold on>his autopilot, as his arrow will usually hold within 50-75 ft.>up to a minute at a time in calm conditions. My Baron is a>little more twitchy-but nothing like fs.>> I usually try to fly with little or no altitude deviation in>real life-with fs it is a continual hunting up and down,>constant retrimming with more ocillations-and way too>sensitive.>>I think Brucek above was talking about real atc-not fs atc.>And yes-I try to keep within 50 ft. -even +-0...almost>impossible in Fs-not so hard in the real bird.>>http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpgI did some flying up in Anchorage, Alaska, last summer. Flying up the Fjords and trying to hold a constant altitude + or minus 100 feet in the C-172 I was flying required constant trim tweaking.. Must have been something wrong with that darn 172...... I will have to send a complaint letter to Cessna. ;-)

Considering you were flying in Mountains/water there would be something wrong if that was not happening. I'll bet it didn't go into a minute or so of non ending ocillations +-100 fpm though with every trim adjustment .....Sorry-Fs isn't close to reality in this area.Imho of course.If my Baron was this hard to keep trimmed I'd be busting my altitude all the time....I constantly make minor adjustments to the trim also-but these adjustments don't lead to a series of increasing ocillations that never settle down.http://mywebpages.comcast.net/geofa/pages/rxp-pilot.jpg

fellow simmersI've uploaded another upgraded version that acceptsjoystick buttons as input with other minor adjustments.In case of interest please try version 0.9b available here:http://www.meiers.net/nils/RealTrim0-9b.zipI'd be grateful for feedback whether it works or not onyour FS2004 (possibly FS2002) setup. Pending any majorI'd gladly put that up in the file library as version 1.0.ThanksNils

<>That is not a procedure I have ever heard recommended by anyone else. Doing so would require continuous forward elevator pressure for the entire time during acceleration from climb to cruise speed.Far better to trim a little pressure off then when airspeed (and lift) increase, trim a little more.CERTAINLY, that's what the autopilot does.<>Far more foot pounds of force would be required to hold constant forward yoke pressure then to flick the trim switch or rotate the trim wheel.<<2) When leveling off after a climb: APT - Attitude, Power and then Trim.>>Right....not Attitude, Power, Forward Yolk Pressure, Trim.Regards,Jim

ME<<>>Trim does not make the stick stay in a deflected position but rather permits the deflected position to be released due to the offsetting force resulting from deflection of the trim tab.>>YAWN<>I think a more careful reading on your part would result in your understanding that you have just confrimed my statement.To repeat, I stated that "trim does not make the stick STAY IN A DEFLECTED POSTION..."When you stated that the elevator moves the stick (and vice versa) and you stated that the trim tab moves the elevator, you agreed with my position that "trim does not make the stick STAY IN A DEFLECTED POSTION..."Regards,Jim

Hi, Nils.Very good idea to implement JS buttons.I get an Error: "FS unable to load... File:realtrim.dll", with the latest version 0.9b. No problem with the previous version. FS9, XP, Athlon 3200. TV

>>Because the period of oscillation is typical very long (on the order of a minute or two), pilots should not touch the trim until the plane's oscillations dampen out.>>I diagree but, of course, cannot speak for the entire aviation community...as you seem to. I can only speak of my own experience as a 1000+ hour ASEL,AMEL, COMM, INST pilot.But, I'll tell ya what. If you are right, then why do autopilots that are interfaced with the trim system CONINTUOUSLY adjust trim as airspeed builds after level off??? <>EXACTLY why it is a bad procedure...and one for which the trim system is intended to eliminate. Regards,Jim

Thanks i've prepared another buildhttp://www.meiers.net/nils/RealTrim0-9c.zipIf you don't mind testing that out - it containsa debugging file RealTrimDEBUG.ini which you couldtry if the DLL still fails to be loaded (removethe DEBUG in the filename before placing in modulesdirectory) - the section: [RealTrim] Logging=1 NoDirectInput=0with Logging=1 will force writing of RealTrim.log intothe modules folder - might be interesting to see it.With NoDirectInput=1 you could try to run this withoutthe joystick calls - just to see whether that's reallythe culprit.Thanks for your helpNilsp.s. fs9 depends on directx 9, right? So you have thaton your machine I assume

Hi, Nils.I tried 0.9c and I get the same result, the previously mentioned Error, regardless how the switches are set, and no ".log" file generated in the ..Modules folder or anywhere else on my C: or D: drives. By the way I run the FS on the D: drive in the root directory. It should make no difference, but I thought you should know. TV

Same for me, for .9c, both newer ver. will not load. Can't locate a log file.Cheers JimC.

Hi, Nils.I have Directx 9b.I would look for something that you have that we do not, a library or some file used during the build, or maybe something that was generated by the code earlier, an ".ini" file etc. Try to move all the files that are related to the realtrim into another folder and start fresh. I am sure you will get it, it's always something simple, after you find it, that is. TV

<>EXACTLY Bob. And those who, in a rather grandiose fashion, state that every flight instructor in every flight school teaches differently.Without question, some publications, including Stick & Rudder...which I revere for Mr. Langewiesche's adamant dissertations of AoA (which if read and understood, would have saved countless lives from stall/spin tragedies)does state that trim should be last in the chain of transitional inputs from climb to cruise.But he wrote the book in 1944 and its most recent revision (of which I am aware) is now over 30 years old. Even some of his most basic assumptions....such as lift...have been modified by modern aerodynamic science. (although even that argument continues to rage on.)In any event, trimming and aircraft is the ultimate "pilot discretion" input. For example, nowhere in my POH's for the C310 or 340, is the practice of trimming from climb to cruise flight even mentioned.And jamming forward pressure for the entire time that the aircraft accelerates from climb to cruise flight is fine for anyone who wants to keep their biceps in trim as well as the aircraft.But NONE of MANY, MANY pilots with whom I have flow and been instructed by and taken check rides with...and taken BFR's and IC rides with have EVER criticized my practice of using the elevator trim (wheel or button) to make life easier on myself by trimming out the need for forward pressure AS the aircraft accelerates to cruise flight.I further submit that:A. Not doing the above would require the same logic as the suggestion that one should not use trim to offset the back pressure required in a climb out...which would be silly.B. The AUTOPILOT continuously adjusts trim as the aircraft accelerates from climb to cruise flight.There IS NO one and only method.End of story. Regards,Jim

Advise me please. There are only two places I know about where this can be done, the controlers screen and the aircraft config file. The controllers sensitivity can help in that you don't shoot too far past the nearest trim setting. The aircraft config file gets overwritten by the load manager so I kind of don't bother that anymore.