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Lewicide

it's out, first thoughts ?

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So pioneers, how is the proline 21 ?

Any improvements over previous Proline incarnations ?

Frames with standard and lite versions ?

Lets hear

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I'm such a sucker.  The other day, literally, I wrote "I will probably pass on this one". :laugh:

No changes to the ProLine, but none expected.  Sounds like it's been the same across all the releases since the C90GTx.  Same issues as far as autopilot/FMS quirks.  Maybe when they re-work all these airplanes for P3Dv4 there will be some positive improvements...that's probably dreaming, though.

I just did a 30 min flight and I don't see any issues that affect basic flyability.  Just a couple of the usual goofs resulting from their failure to understand how the systems are supposed to work (engine anti-ice annunciators always on when the A/I is off, display dimmer knobs on the overhead dim something else).  I didn't even bother with the "full" version, only "lite".  FPS was fine...I never had FPS issues with the Carenado ProLine birds I have (Hawker, CJ2, 350i) beyond what I expect from any complex aircraft.  I know that's not the case for everyone.  OOMs have been a problem for me though.  If you're concerned about performance, I think your previous experience/weariness still applies to this one.

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Carenado and Alabeo have both started "lite" versions of new AC

most are about VC poly counts, maybe with the lite ver the Pro Line wont be such a fps problem

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If you're on the fence because you're worried about performance, I would definitely not base your decision on the fact that there's a lite model.  Even the lite models are larger files than their releases from a year ago.

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Cheers for the review

How many others are getting the framerate or OOM issues ?

 

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On ‎6‎/‎9‎/‎2017 at 1:54 AM, Lewicide said:

So pioneers, how is the proline 21 ?

Any improvements over previous Proline incarnations ?

Frames with standard and lite versions ?

Lets hear

I have just installed the P1A in FSX Steam and P3Dv2.5.  I made one short manual flight to see what worked and didn't work.  I have Frames locked at 30 and it never dropped below 29 that I saw.  No stutters so far.  This is the fully leaded version, I will try the LITE one later.

I haven't figured out how to open and close the forward baggage doors yet. They may have not been coded.  duh.

More later.

Regards,

Ray

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2 hours ago, raymar said:

I haven't figured out how to open and close the forward baggage doors yet. They may have not been coded.  duh.

Yeah, seems like that's the case. 

BTW, I've done 5-6 full flights now, and I really dig the FDE.  I think it's a little overpowered down low...4000 ft/min at max gross, 220 KIAS, ISA +15 is optimistic.  Seems like the real number might be closer to 3000ft/min....not a big deal.  Cruise numbers at higher altitude are very close based on a cursory look.  I've heard the Premier is known for some quirks which are well-modelled here: heavy aileron forces, and sludgey brake feel (great for smooth taxiing, s*** for stopping on landing).  Oh, Carenado...those brakes gave me a little nail-biter landing on the 4900' runway at KCRQ!  It was one of my first flights and I was too lazy to look up vref, so I took a WAG and was probably 15 kts fast.  There's been the better part of a dozen runway departures with Premier I's in real life...:blink:

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Interesting.  I landed on a 5,000 runway for first landing, used 4.950 and ended up using the Emergency Brake toward the end.  Gotta learn to use that Lift Dump system as soon as the wheel are planted. And I was at the proper vref.

Regards,

Ray

 

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....speaking of the Lift Dump spoilers  ...  how do you assign a key to them,  what is their command number or LVAR or simconnect number or what.  .....anyone ?

 

aero

 

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In FSX:SE, I use the drop down menu along the top of the screen.

Options/Settings/Controls/ Buttons/ (select Joystick) then scroll down to Spoilers and set ARM and Extend/Retract as New Assignment for Joystick.

Most keyboards default to the / key for deploy and retract.

Regards,

Ray593f036045e6d_spoilerssetting.JPG.553c14f8b994192297eebd576d3d78a9.JPG

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Lift Dump lever: L:ASD_390_LEVER_LIFT_DUMP

Spoiler: L:ASD_SWITCH_EMB505_SPOILER (not a typo.  I noticed that the default spoiler key doesn't work with the Premier)

You could write a macro so that you can assign a key to these in FSUIPC...also there's LINDA.

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The lift dump is critical in the real Premiere. With no T/Rs, stopping is by brakes only, and without the lift dump, it could easily add 1000 feet to your stopping distance. 

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Jep, that is the main reason they went to the manual switch for deployment of the Lift Dump.  If the pilot bounced a little on landing or flared a little too much and the squat switch did not make solid contact or lost contact the Lift Dump would not deploy when he needed it the most.  Now the pilot can deploy it anytime he is firmly on the ground. 

Dozens of cases where a P1A needed at extra 5,000 feet of runway.

 

Regards,

Ray

 

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1 hour ago, ukplane1 said:

How does this compare with the cj2?

It is still early, but, right now it is superior in many ways.  Although the P1A is faster it has an upper limit of FL410 where the CJ2 goes to FL450.  The 410 could get in close to airliner traffic in the rw but not a problem in FSX/P3D.

The cabin is larger and nicer in the P1A but that shouldn't matter much in FSX/P3D/

The VC is much better in the new P1A, better and sharper everything.  Flight Guidance Panel for the AP and NAV gives it an airliner or airbus look and feel.  CJ2 was old, old school for the AP, HDG and CRS knobs.

The PFD and MFD are almost the same for both models.  Much better switch and systems layout in the P1A as it was a new design vs the CJ2 was a hand me down for 3 generations.  Sharp nose vs blunt nose, swept wing vs straight wing.

P1A is real fast, approaching Learjet speeds.  Better looking and more functional yokes.

Both have the PL21 but P1A has a cluster of 70 annuc where you can almost read them. More centered and set lower in the panel than the up high and away like in the CJ2.

Both have great handling and visibility from the cockpit.

New crew images with this one, better or improved sounds,  more switch clicks, etc.

Pretty much the same limited FMS but Carenado says the VNAV and FLC is improved.  If so, this should also improve the FMS. We shall dig more into that in the flying for the review.

I like it a lot.  First really modern corporate jet other than the Flight1 Mustang 5 or 6 years ago.  This one is based on a 2006 Premier 1A.

This one has a little better, little more documentation but is still not totally complete.  Plenty of youtube real world flights to watch and learn.  Also has a LITE version for legacy PCs.  5 nice liveries.  User repaints already available in the library.

It might have some warts, but they are not out front and easy to see.  I like it a lot. My initial thoughts is this may have the best FDE and VC of all Carenados to date. I could be wrong, but I will have to be proved wrong.  I like the Phenom 300 but was never wild about the incomplete and weak G1000 panels. 

The CJ2 is a great old bird, but it looks like a an old bird and Carenado used one of the earliest models just prior to better integration and shartper radios and GPS.  If it was a CJ2+ it would be more competitive.

Gotta love that Gulfstream looking entry door, like the Phenom 300.  P1A wins hand down on the ramp appeal vs the CJ2. Pointy nose, swept wings, tall T-tail - looks like a small fighter.

Regards,

Ray

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7 hours ago, raymar said:

The switch on the VC console works fine.

Riiiight...but...some users don't want to have to pan around like crazy to manipulate basic controls.

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Correct.  I like using the protected red button on the Saitek flightstick for Lift Dump. Button 2, I think. I use it for reverse thrusters on my Lear 45XR.

Regards,

Ray

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15 hours ago, raymar said:

Jep, that is the main reason they went to the manual switch for deployment of the Lift Dump.  If the pilot bounced a little on landing or flared a little too much and the squat switch did not make solid contact or lost contact the Lift Dump would not deploy when he needed it the most.  Now the pilot can deploy it anytime he is firmly on the ground. 

Dozens of cases where a P1A needed at extra 5,000 feet of runway.

 

Regards,

Ray

 

A big factor in many of the overrun incidents is the experience of the people flying them. Many of the individuals who purchased the Premiere were moving up from turboprops like the King Air, which of course has enormous stopping power due to its reversible propellers. That, plus the fact that the Premiere is certified for single pilot operations, and has pretty docile handling characteristics in the air, made it very appealing as a "first jet".

The big problem is that landing is a much more critical phase in a jet than in a turboprop, and a lot of folks were taking their P1s into airports with runway lengths perfectly suitable for a King Air, but marginal at best for the Premiere. 

Not nailing VREF on approach is a big problem - as you can't afford to land long (or fast) when you only have 4500 feet to work with. Any delay in getting the spoilers deployed after touchdown creates a serious issue getting the aircraft stopped before running out of runway.

Pilots with a lot of previous experience in jets rarely have any issues with the Premiere - it's the ones moving up from non-jet airframes who often got into trouble.

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Hi Folks,

Yeah - didn't that race car guy dump one of these on the runway at Oshkosh resulting in some serious injuries and a very dramatic entry ???

There is a popular YouTube guy "premierdriver" (something like that) who showcases this plane well - he stepped up from a Moo 2 which also seems to stop pretty readily... He seems chatty too Ray - if you have specific questions - especially since you both fly jets...

 

https://www.youtube.com/user/gregmink

 

Wish all the developers would create a list of LVAR's used so we could more easily script button controls for various functions via FSUIPC... It makes a huge difference being able to map control functions...

And those window decals are just too funny - probably like $1,500.00 a pop - right ?

Regards,

Scott

 

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11 hours ago, SolRayz said:

Literally nothing there is officially supported...

 

35 minutes ago, scottb613 said:

Hi Folks,

Yeah - didn't that race car guy dump one of these on the runway at Oshkosh resulting in some serious injuries and a very dramatic entry ???

 

Yep, Jack Roush - and it was not the first plane he had destroyed in a crash. In this one, he ended up losing an eye. He is a classic case of a pilot who was in over his head flying-skills wise. He doesn't fly himself anymore, which is probably for the best.

The fact that he survived at all is a testimony to how incredibly strong the Premiere's composite fuselage is. It broke in half at the aft pressure bulkhead, but the main cabin and cockpit remained intact, which probably would not have been the case in an all-metal aircraft.

Any former MU-2 driver would have no issues flying a Premiere.

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I purchased the Carenado 390 Premiere 1a and have yet to get it to work. The 1 - 2 FPS renders this plane UNUSABLE. What is the solution to the well known Carenado FPS issues? So far ALL the posted fixes DO NOT WORK. Every plane in my FSX run perfect except for this one. My Winows 10 rig i7 970 @ 3.4 Ghz with an nvidia GFORCE 1060 3GB VRAM.

NONE of the suggested fixes at Carenado Support work. Does anyone TRUTHFULLY have a fix for all the well know  FPS issues with Carenado planes? Thanks in advance.

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14 hours ago, dialtech said:

I purchased the Carenado 390 Premiere 1a and have yet to get it to work. The 1 - 2 FPS renders this plane UNUSABLE. What is the solution to the well known Carenado FPS issues? So far ALL the posted fixes DO NOT WORK. Every plane in my FSX run perfect except for this one. My Winows 10 rig i7 970 @ 3.4 Ghz with an nvidia GFORCE 1060 3GB VRAM.

NONE of the suggested fixes at Carenado Support work. Does anyone TRUTHFULLY have a fix for all the well know  FPS issues with Carenado planes? Thanks in advance.

This ac used to work fine in win7.Now I have win10 and I also get 1-2 fps.I think it has something to do with  navigraph database that wont load for s.  Too bad i really like this plane

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This plane looks great and I am hoping to be able to run it in the future. I am currently working with Cardenado Support on my frame rate issue. My rig is an i7 970 @3.4 GHz with nVidia GeForce 1060, no matter what settings I use with the Carenado 390 Premier 1a, my frame rate is 1 - 2. This plane is unusable.

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