Arwen

Utra-wide upgrade - 2K or 4K - G-sync?

15 posts in this topic

I'm hoping you guys can help me out again with an upgrade.  I need to replace my old 24" 1080p monitor soon, and plan on getting an a 30 to 35 inch ultra-wide 1440p or higher monitor.  First of all, my GPU is a Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1080 Gaming 8GB, and my CPU is an i7-4770K (overclocked to 4.2 MHz), and my memory is 16GB DDR3 @ 2133MHz.

I've pretty much decided on a 34-35 inch 1440p monitor, as I've read that this would give me roughly the same text (and other) size as my current 1080p monitor (and I'm concerned that a 4K monitor would be too hard on my flight sims FPS). A curved screen seems like something that I might benefit from (as far as immersion), but I'm not sure if the extra cost would be worth it. A brighter, sharper image is much more important to me, as my left eye's vision is not all that good (due to glaucoma damage).

I'm also thinking that I need a faster refresh rate than my current monitor's 60Hz, as I get some screen tearing when I pan in the cockpit that I would really like to eliminate.

My biggest question is if I also need to get a monitor with g-sync, which sounds like a good feature to have, but it really limits my monitor selection (and it adds at least $200 to the price).

At first I had pretty much settled on a Dell UltraSharp U3415W, but it only has a 60Hz refresh rate, and it does not have G-sync.

Also is this a good time to buy a monitor or would I be better off waiting a bit?

ALL advice and suggestions a very much appreciated, as I really don't know what would work the best for me.  Flight sim use is my main priority (P3Dv.4, X-Plane 11, and DCS), but I also need this monitor for things like website design and other non-game/sim work.

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I'm sure you'll get a range of responses, and most if not all will be worth considering.  

My take - given your needs as you've described them, take a serious look at a 4K TV.  Your video card will be able to handle it, and FPS can actually be better in 4K because because at that resolution, you can turn AA way down - some even say you can turn it off, but for me, I still need 4x MSAA in P3D4 (no need for anything higher and no need for NVidia Inspector).  

As to refresh rate - I'll defer to friends with deeper technical knowledge, but I'm not sure that a higher refresh will solve your screen tearing problems.  What works for me is to set refresh at 30Hz, with VSync set to on in P3D4.  That, plus frames set to unlimited, effectively creates a frame-rate limit at the refresh rate (30 FPS) with very smooth performance.  Rob Ainscough has posted about this option and you might want to search out his posts (I can't recall if he addresses it in his guide, but that could be worth a look as well).

To deal with text size and other work-related needs, in Windows 10 you can increase text size (right click the desktop, select "display settings," use the sliders to adjust).  At higher (larger) settings I have no trouble reading text or web pages.

The economics are such that 4K TVs are generally less expensive than monitors, so that might be a consideration.

I tried the Dell 3415 and couldn't adjust to it (among other things, I had strange behavior with lateral panning in TrackIR - at the horizontal extremes, the IR receiver would lose line of sight with the headset).  4K has been much better for me.

I haven't yet loaded up XP11 and I'm not a DCS flyer, so I can't account for how well those work in 4K.  Maybe others will chime in.

Again, nothing I say is definitive, it's really just a list of some things to think about.

Hope it's helpful.

 

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I got my self a ultra wide and I use DSR 4X to bring it to a 5200*1800 resolution. I use MSAA 2X and have a very smooth sim. The Ultrawide works well for me. I do have to bend the head view down a bit to see the PFD and ND however its only a bit and it is completely flyable. I will say the immersion effect you get with this screen is like no other. 

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Thanks so much guys, but I'm nervous about using 4K and then Win 10 scaling, as that still doesn't work well with some of my non-sim/gaming programs.  I would MUCH rather use a 1440p monitor, where I would not have to use any scaling (and I don't have the budget or desk space for a monitor larger than 35").

Alan_A, I don't have any screen tearing with P3D v.4; mostly just with X-Plane.  But I am still wondering about the merits of a monitor with a high refresh rate (100 MHz or more) and/or the extra cost of a G-sync monitor.

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Ah, in that case the ultrawide probably makes more sense.  The advantage of 4K really comes in with big TVs (I'm at 49 inches).  At 35 inches it's less clear cut, and I agree the monitor will be easier to work with.

Unfortunately I don't know enough to advise you about refresh rate - hope someone more knowledgeable will join the thread.

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Hi,

I'm also thinking about the monitor change and this is my favorite for now: 35" BenQ XR3501 Curved.

The price is about 500 euro, so it's not so expensive.

 

Milan Zikmund

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8 hours ago, Zikous82 said:

Hi,

I'm also thinking about the monitor change and this is my favorite for now: 35" BenQ XR3501 Curved.

The price is about 500 euro, so it's not so expensive.

 

Milan Zikmund

I really like the BenQ monitors, but they don't seem to make a 1440p 34/35" ultra-wide (I think they may have a 27" 1440p).  And I feel that a 1080p in such a large monitor might not be as sharp as what I'm looking for.

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So, is anyone using a monitor with G-sync?  Do you guys feel like it is worth paying extra for it?

I'm now finding myself torn between buying a large (32-35") ultra wide 21:9 curved screen and a 29-30" 16:9 flat screen. The thing is that I've never used an ultra wide and I'm wondering if a more vertical space would be a better for a flight sim (less vertical panning).

Also, if I did buy a 4K ,monitor, does anyone know how well it would work to use a lower resolution setting if i need to increase FPS?  Does anyone have any experience with going from a 1080p to a 4K monitor with P3D and/or X-Plane?  IF so, how much was the FPS hit? 

Sorry for all the questions, but I'm having a tough time with knowing what to get.

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On 17 July 2017 at 7:58 PM, Arwen said:

I'm also thinking that I need a faster refresh rate than my current monitor's 60Hz, as I get some screen tearing when I pan in the cockpit that I would really like to eliminate.

Unless you can get consistently very high FPS, there's little reason to get a monitor with a high refresh rate (100+). The screen tearing should be easy to fix by using  vsync. Although it supposedly works best at high FPS, I found that using fast vsync worked particularly well with my 60Hz monitor to eliminate tearing when panning with minimal effect on performance. 

1 hour ago, Arwen said:

So, is anyone using a monitor with G-sync?  Do you guys feel like it is worth paying extra for it?

The problem with g-sync and flight sims (perhaps not so much with DCS as you can generally maintain high FPS) is that it doesn't work below 30 FPS (it just repeats frames, which can result in more tearing) - see http://www.anandtech.com/show/7582/nvidia-gsync-review/2 for an explanation.

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1 hour ago, Arwen said:

The thing is that I've never used an ultra wide and I'm wondering if a more vertical space would be a better for a flight sim (less vertical panning).

A decade ago I was simming on a single 19" Dell 1280 x 1024 monitor. I wanted more peripheral vision so I wouldn't have to be panning around so much, especially when in the pattern. I found 2 more identical used monitors and setup a triple monitor system. This was a fantastic improvement despite the annoyance of the bezels. After awhile I wanted more vertical view as I was having to pan up and down in the complex aircraft to see the FMC. I got a 4k TV this past spring and now I can see out the windscreen, just about the whole panel, and the FMC without having to pan. It certainly has made flying a lot easier and more enjoyable for me.  My 4k TV is 55". I don't know if you would be able to read the gauges with a 29"-30" 4k monitor/tv. Someone else who has one will have to respond here. For me the main reasons for going to a large 4k TV was for the expanded field of view and to get rid of the bezels of the triple monitor setup. If you mainly fly GA and don't need to look down at an FMC then the lower field of view of a wide screen monitor may be sufficient.

The higher resolution does have a framerate impact but it is not 1:1. I tested this but am not at home to look up the numbers. I recall the drop was something like 40 down to 30 FPS from the single 19" monitor to the 4k TV. I have a 3770k at 4.5ghz with a 780gtx and still can still maintain 30 FPS on the 4k with sufficient graphics quality. This is with P3Dv3, I have not had time to get P3Dv4 installed yet. The bottom line is everything is a trade off in this hobby and for me the increased visuals of the 4k TV far outweighed the drop in FPS. I have read on these forums that you can enable DSR on your Nvidia control panel and it will simulate running at a higher resolution. You might want to look into this to see the effect the increased resolution has on your system. I have not tried it.

I seen a little written but not much regarding g-sync monitors on these forums. Doesn't appear to be that important for flight simming. More folks are just getting TV/monitors that can run at 30 hz and syncing their framerates to that.

Hope that helps,

Ted

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18 minutes ago, vortex681 said:

Unless you can get consistently very high FPS, there's little reason to get a monitor with a high refresh rate (100+). The screen tearing should be easy to fix by using  vsync. Although it supposedly works best at high FPS, I found that using fast vsync worked particularly well with my 60Hz monitor to eliminate tearing when panning with minimal effect on performance. 

The problem with g-sync and flight sims (perhaps not so much with DCS as you can generally maintain high FPS) is that it doesn't work below 30 FPS (it just repeats frames, which can result in more tearing) - see http://www.anandtech.com/show/7582/nvidia-gsync-review/2 for an explanation.

Thanks you so much!  Knowing that I don't necessarily need G-sync is extremely helpful, as there are currently very few larger monitors that have it, and when a monitor does have G-sync, it ends up being one of the more expensive monitors.

My frame rates do approach my current 60 refresh rate, when I'm not in an urban area; and I do also play games, where the frame rates are quite a bit higher (but with my current monitor, I'm limited to 60).  But I'll likely get a drop of FPS once I move up to a monitor with 2 to 4 times my current pixel count. I'm really only looking for a refresh rate of 75-100 mhz.

I've tried vsync without seeing much improvement (again, the tearing happens mostly only with X-Plane, when panning in the cockpit view).  I don't know how to enable fast vsync with X-Plane.

 

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1 minute ago, Arwen said:

I don't know how to enable fast vsync with X-Plane.

I'm not an X-Plane expert but you should be able to enable it in the NVIDIA Control panel. I'd avoid setting it globally, just set it specifically for X-Plane.

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4 hours ago, Ted Striker said:

A decade ago I was simming on a single 19" Dell 1280 x 1024 monitor. I wanted more peripheral vision so I wouldn't have to be panning around so much, especially when in the pattern. I found 2 more identical used monitors and setup a triple monitor system. This was a fantastic improvement despite the annoyance of the bezels. After awhile I wanted more vertical view as I was having to pan up and down in the complex aircraft to see the FMC. I got a 4k TV this past spring and now I can see out the windscreen, just about the whole panel, and the FMC without having to pan. It certainly has made flying a lot easier and more enjoyable for me.  My 4k TV is 55". I don't know if you would be able to read the gauges with a 29"-30" 4k monitor/tv. Someone else who has one will have to respond here. For me the main reasons for going to a large 4k TV was for the expanded field of view and to get rid of the bezels of the triple monitor setup. If you mainly fly GA and don't need to look down at an FMC then the lower field of view of a wide screen monitor may be sufficient.

The higher resolution does have a framerate impact but it is not 1:1. I tested this but am not at home to look up the numbers. I recall the drop was something like 40 down to 30 FPS from the single 19" monitor to the 4k TV. I have a 3770k at 4.5ghz with a 780gtx and still can still maintain 30 FPS on the 4k with sufficient graphics quality. This is with P3Dv3, I have not had time to get P3Dv4 installed yet. The bottom line is everything is a trade off in this hobby and for me the increased visuals of the 4k TV far outweighed the drop in FPS. I have read on these forums that you can enable DSR on your Nvidia control panel and it will simulate running at a higher resolution. You might want to look into this to see the effect the increased resolution has on your system. I have not tried it.

I seen a little written but not much regarding g-sync monitors on these forums. Doesn't appear to be that important for flight simming. More folks are just getting TV/monitors that can run at 30 hz and syncing their framerates to that.

Hope that helps,

Ted

Thanks so much Ted!  That does help a bunch.

I do now have a pretty large desk (new this Spring), but I do use my PC for work related applications.  So the largest Monitor that I feel would comfortably work for me would be one that is 32 inches or so in width.  I'm tall, so my current 24-inch monitor sits on a 6" riser.  If I end up with a larger 16:9 monitor, I would likely remove the riser; which should in theory, give me a cockpit view that is closer to what you would have in a real cockpit. Ideally, I would love to have my cockpit view match the real-life scale/view. (With my current monitor I have to move the view back quite a bit in order to see enough of my cockpit, but that results in a smaller scale for my gauges.  My guess is that a monitor that is at least 50% wider to give me a view that is close to what I need. My current screen has a 20.5: wide screen, so I need one that is at least 31" wide.

I do fly most GA aircraft in P3D4 and X=Plane 11, but I own and fly all of the DCS helicopters, which have a LOT more switches and instruments and now require way too much scrolling around to view.

I'll have to decide if I really need/want G-sync, but based on today's posts in this thread, I'm now feeling that it is just an expensive option that I probably would benefit much from.

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2 hours ago, vortex681 said:

I'm not an X-Plane expert but you should be able to enable it in the NVIDIA Control panel. I'd avoid setting it globally, just set it specifically for X-Plane.

I just tried that and it works!  This is so much better now!  Thank you so much!!!

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14 hours ago, Arwen said:

I just tried that and it works!  This is so much better now!  Thank you so much!!!

You're welcome. Incidentally, last year I changed to a 32", 2560x1440 monitor and couldn't be happier. Text size in games is good which I found was a bit of a problem for me at the higher resolutions at these screen sizes.

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