G-YMML1

PMDG and ntdll CTD in very specific circumstances

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Hello,
 

I moved this topic from P3D General Area as it appears that PMDG should be noticed as well...I also filing the support ticket.
 



I have recently purchased Aerosoft Balearic Islands pack - BIP (LEPA/LIBH/LMH) from Aerosoft that was adopted as a straight port for P3Dv4.0. The installers put sceneries' entries into scenery.cfg file correctly, then I ran FTX Vector to check an elevation for each airport. Apparently, every time I load P3D with either PMDG plane in any location with Balearic airports active I have IMMEDIATE ntdll.crash and then I received a message that your video driver has been successfully recovered. However, when I try the same scenario with F22 plane, I have no this problem at all. When I de-activate BIP from scenery.cfg I'm able to fly PMDG birds again. I did several other tests and found out that Terrain folder for ANY of three airports is a culprit of ntdll. crash, but without the terrain's slices, all the sceneries look quite naked and ugly,

I reported this problem to Aerosoft and Mathis said that he has never heard about this. Please see the topic.http://forum.aerosoft.com/index.php?/topic/125200-ngx-and-ibiza-ctd-p3d-v4/

Need your help with trouble-shooting as we clearly see cause-and-effect relationship here:  PMDG + Aerosoft BIP = ntdll CTD, but ANY default plane + Aerosoft BIP  = ok. Also, I have made several flights in P3Dv4 with NGX with FTX full sandwich, custom-made AI, FT/T2G/FSDT airports and literally had ZERO issues until the day I bought BIP,

I have i7-6700k, 980Ti, 16GB RAM, W7-64, 2TB Samsung SSD. I also run Error-Content twice and it found nothing.

Your help would be much appreciated.

 

DmitriyToropov

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1 minute ago, G-YMML1 said:

Hello,
 

I moved this topic from P3D General Area as it appears that PMDG should be noticed as well...I also filing the support ticket.
 



I have recently purchased Aerosoft Balearic Islands pack - BIP (LEPA/LIBH/LMH) from Aerosoft that was adopted as a straight port for P3Dv4.0. The installers put sceneries' entries into scenery.cfg file correctly, then I ran FTX Vector to check an elevation for each airport. Apparently, every time I load P3D with either PMDG plane in any location with Balearic airports active I have IMMEDIATE ntdll.crash and then I received a message that your video driver has been successfully recovered. However, when I try the same scenario with F22 plane, I have no this problem at all. When I de-activate BIP from scenery.cfg I'm able to fly PMDG birds again. I did several other tests and found out that Terrain folder for ANY of three airports is a culprit of ntdll. crash, but without the terrain's slices, all the sceneries look quite naked and ugly,

I reported this problem to Aerosoft and Mathis said that he has never heard about this. Please see the topic.http://forum.aerosoft.com/index.php?/topic/125200-ngx-and-ibiza-ctd-p3d-v4/

Need your help with trouble-shooting as we clearly see cause-and-effect relationship here:  PMDG + Aerosoft BIP = ntdll CTD, but ANY default plane + Aerosoft BIP  = ok. Also, I have made several flights in P3Dv4 with NGX with FTX full sandwich, custom-made AI, FT/T2G/FSDT airports and literally had ZERO issues until the day I bought BIP,

I have i7-6700k, 980Ti, 16GB RAM, W7-64, 2TB Samsung SSD. I also run Error-Content twice and it found nothing.

Your help would be much appreciated.

 

DmitriyToropov

If your graphics drivers are being “recovered” it means they’re crashing. I would do a clean install of the latest graphics drivers. 

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Just now, PMDG777 said:

If your graphics drivers are being “recovered” it means they’re crashing. I would do a clean install of the latest graphics drivers. 

It's been done! A clear removal and brand new install with DDU. Apparently I'm 99% positive it has nothing to do with a driver per se. Some internal conflict between pre-P3Dv4 custom terrain and current PMDG birds is happening. Please see my next post

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The update,

I can confirm that disabling the Terrain folders of each scenery makes ntdll. CTD with PMDG goes away and it's clear cause-and-effect relationship. Now I need to figure out why it happens with PMDG only and not with the default planes.

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2nd update after I did a couple of tests.

Each of three airports (LEPA/LEIB/LEMG) has its own Terrain folder which in turn has Scenery and Texture Folder. Once I have Texture folder (consists of DDS and AGN files) removed, I have my ntdl CTD problem with NGX goes away (!!!). However, I'm loosing autogen and other nice visuals. What does NGX does not like old Terrain/Texture folders, I have no idea!!! But right now I'm able to recreate the chain of events. 

 

Actually, the same happens with T2G MCO scenery that was not adopted for P3D officially. A this point, I'm stuck since I have no knowledge in either AGN or other textures :-(

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6 minutes ago, G-YMML1 said:

2nd update after I did a couple of tests.

Each of three airports (LEPA/LEIB/LEMG) has its own Terrain folder which in turn has Scenery and Texture Folder. Once I have Texture folder (consists of DDS and AGN files) removed, I have my ntdl CTD problem with NGX goes away (!!!). However, I'm loosing autogen and other nice visuals. What does NGX does not like old Terrain/Texture folders, I have no idea!!! But right now I'm able to recreate the chain of events. 

 

Actually, the same happens with T2G MCO scenery that was not adopted for P3D officially. A this point, I'm stuck since I have no knowledge in either AGN or other textures :-(

Yeah this is Aerosoft's problem. I'm guessing it's an incompatibility between something like dynamic lights and their pre v4 textures. This is what happens when companies copy paste scenery from the old versions and just adjust the installers.

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Again,

 

It does happen with PMDG planes ONLY!!!. F22 and Sikorsy are just fine. I would blame Aerosoft if this CTD happens with both PMDG and the default planes. 

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Sounds like quite a weird issue, to be honest... I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss your system as the culprit. As Mathijs said - it's the first time he's seen this issue, and there must be a lot of people who have this configuration.

Have you tried uninstalling all sceneries and re-downloading them (using a download manager)? Just to make sure that you haven't gotten any bad files?

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Only happens since you bought one scenery add-on, and only when that scenery is loaded... yet somehow you're convinced that PMDG must be to blame.  And removing files from the scenery makes the problem go away. There's some really big holes in your logic.

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7 minutes ago, Anders Bermann said:

Hmm... why are you creating multiple topics of (apparently) the same issue?

Yes, I moved it away from the general area to the PMDG section. Sorry about this

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3 hours ago, markdf said:

Only happens since you bought one scenery add-on, and only when that scenery is loaded... yet somehow you're convinced that PMDG must be to blame.  And removing files from the scenery makes the problem go away. There's some really big holes in your logic.

You don't read what I wrote. Default planes + Aerosoft BIP = OK, PMDG planes + Aerosoft BIP = CTD, PMDG planes + no Aerosoft = OK. 

It's unclear who's more responsible for CTD, but it's either PMDG or Aerosoft. Simply logic as you mentioned. And no, I'm no blaming PMDG, just trying to find a solution for my issue

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3 minutes ago, G-YMML1 said:

You don't read what I wrote. Default planes + Aerosoft BIP = OK, PMDG planes + Aerosoft BIP = CTD, PMDG planes + no Aerosoft = OK. 

It's unclear who's more responsible for CTD, but it's either PMDG or Aerosoft. Simply logic as you mentioned. And no, I'm no blaming PMDG, just trying to find a solution for my issue

I think you need to go back to Aerosoft support. The issue is with the terrain files as per your post in the P3D forum.

FYI - PMDG require your full name signed on all forum posts.

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I read everything you wrote.

If removing files from the scenery reliably stops the CTD, then it seems fairly obvious where the error is, and since I highly doubt PMDG added any of those files to your scenery then you have your answer.

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Just now, PMDG777 said:

I think you need to go back to Aerosoft support. The issue is with the terrain files as per your post in the P3D forum.

FYI - PMDG require your full name signed on all forum posts.

surely I will post on AErosoft forums as well, but as I mentioned, it's not P3D itself that does not like Aerosoft BIP, it's PMDG planes that cannot live up with it.

I think that a simple validation of my issue would be if someone would test NGX with Aerosoft Balearic Island package in V4.

DmitriyToropov

 

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You've already stated the crash happens nowhere else, you've identified the specific files causing the crash and you're somehow still managing to attribute the crash to a different add-on.

I wish you the best of luck, but you don't seem to really want to listen to what people are saying so I'm going to just politely step out of the thread.

I hope you get your problem fixed though

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13 minutes ago, G-YMML1 said:

surely I will post on AErosoft forums as well, but as I mentioned, it's not P3D itself that does not like Aerosoft BIP, it's PMDG planes that cannot live up with it.

I think that a simple validation of my issue would be if someone would test NGX with Aerosoft Balearic Island package in V4.

DmitriyToropov

 

True, but I believe the crash is caused by the scenery, not PMDG. It's more likely due to be the scenery as it's not truly v4 compatible (just a rebranded installer).

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UPDATE N3

Old T2G KMCO Scenery triggers the SAME issue with NGX and no such issues with default F22 using this scenery(!!!).

This scenery hasn't been officially adopted for V4 (it hasn't been even adopted for P3D at all, but it worked well in V2 and V3), so I have no formal complaints here, BUT if I disable the Terrain Folder that ALSO consists of *AGN files as Aerosoft BIP does, I have my problem with ntdll. crash vanished.  Total Mystery!!!

On the other hand, I have T2G LTBA and EDDM work okey in V4 with their Terrain folders active and recall that there were some comments from people who successfully run KMCO in V4.

 

But why PMDG only? Why?! Aerosoft have always right to say "it does not happen with default planes, please contact PMDG" and visa-versa.

Okey. back to work, more tests later.

Thanks to everyone for moral support at least

Dmitriy 

 

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6 minutes ago, G-YMML1 said:

But why PMDG only? Why?! Aerosoft have always right to say "it does not happen with default planes, please contact PMDG" and visa-versa.

PMDG aircraft are fully 64bit v4 compiled and compatible. These sceneries are installer changes at best only, they haven't been compiled for 64 bit.

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17 minutes ago, PMDG777 said:

PMDG aircraft are fully 64bit v4 compiled and compatible. These sceneries are installer changes at best only, they haven't been compiled for 64 bit.

 

Sceneries, unless they have *DLL files embedded, does not require "64b conversion". At all.  

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55 minutes ago, G-YMML1 said:

 

Sceneries, unless they have *DLL files embedded, does not require "64b conversion". At all.  

That's not true at all (and hence why you're seeing crashes). 

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Can you please try and see if you have CTD with other payware planes, if you have any? We can then see if it is specific to PMDG or not. (Not that I ll have a suggestion after that I am just curious :) ) 

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3 minutes ago, costamesa said:

Can you please try and see if you have CTD with other payware planes, if you have any? We can then see if it is specific to PMDG or not. (Not that I ll have a suggestion after that I am just curious :) ) 

Unfortunately, don't have other payware commercial airliners except for PMDG birds, as only PMDG's have been converted so far for P3Dv4. I can only compare default vs. PMDG.

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11 minutes ago, PMDG777 said:

That's not true at all (and hence why you're seeing crashes). 

Sceneries consist of *bgl, *dds, *bmp, *agn files. Non of them require conversion from 32b to 64b. However, custom *AGN data that feeds custom terrain POTENTIALLY might have a conflict with newer materials converted via V4 SDK. It could be just incidental that it's very difficult to catch during routine beta-testing. 

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