anden145

@mp15 I'm sorry - but what part of "leave it alone" and "I won't discuss it" don't you understand?! No - this is not the normal way of behaving - just because the community grows! And - if it is, something should definately be done about it. Please don't be condescending - I'm not a total word not allowed. If you truly accept this kind of behavior in a forum, and think it's normal, then all the power to you. Personally I just think it's sad and disappointing, that people behave that way. Thank you, Robin. Appreciated.

Thank you SO much, for all your supportive words and encouragement. Thank you for your kindness and thank you - just thank you! I guess we all have our pet-peeves. Mine can (probably) be summized down to: 1. People or users, who state their own personal opinion as fact. 2. Users who simply cannot undertand or comprehend, that other users have different opinions or view of the world. I understand your words about, that "That how the forums are!" and "That just how social media works" etc... But to be completely honest, I simply don't think it's alright, to contantly have a feeling of being condescended whenever you post something or expresses an opinion. I absolutely agree, that there should be room for everybody - with all sorts of diverse opinions... But the demeanor and attitude in here (which, quite frankly, sometimes borders on lynch-attitude) just doesn't leave room for that feeling - on the contrary actually. Of course, things will get different, when difference of opinion meet, but that doesn't mean, or excuse, the basic principles of debate and conversation, should be thrown out the door? Com'on - it's really not that hard, to say politely: "I don't think so... because...". There nothing wrong with active politely and civil towards each other. And there's nothing wrong with supporting your reply, with some kind of reason why you disagree (or agree, for that matter); instead of just shouting/ranting "NO. YOU'RE WRONG!"... I don't mind the debate - but I do mind to argue. @mp15 I don't want to discuss it! (As I already said in the original thread). The recent episode with the two users (I won't name them) was the famous straw, that broke the camels back! The line of questioning and the way of discussion was borderline childish, if you ask me. It was constantly just a rejection of one's viewpoint, in favor of their own - without any factural evidence - simply just "NO! You're wrong! I'm right!". I really don't need to hear all the reasons YOU think, that I'm wrong. I have already heard them - and I still don't think, they apply to this specific topic. In either case, I digress. I'm simply - well to put it a little strongly - fed up with the attitude, which are being used. I know, that one should never 'threat' with leaving - one should always 'threat' to stay... but, for me personally, it has come to a point, where it's simply not worth it anymore. The clientel has changed - and the manners, behavior and respect towards one another has gone. Sadly. When you constantly are feeling, that you're annoying someone, rather than contributing and driving the debate - then you come to wonder, whether or not it's really worth continuing... I'm sorry to all - but this is a long time coming. @Alan_A Thank you, for your words. I can understand, that you're of the same impression that I am - roughly... See you on the other side. @DaveCT2003 Thanks for the longer post and - of course, thanks a lot for the talks we've had in the past. You (or the people, you mention in your post) is in no way the source of this! There's a lot of extremely friendly and helpful people in here - but there's also some 'bad apples'... but alas - it's the few, who ruin it for the many. Thanks again - and for the supportive comments. I'll continue to monitor this topic and reply, if there's anything I think/need to reply to... Again - thank you. P.s - my avatar, is a Porg from Star Wars. 🙂

Hi all, After watching these - lets call them debates, in various threads, for awhile now, and I've been thinking of whether or not I should say something... Since my previous posts in here, have been met with anger and condescention, I've had my reasons just to stay clear... But I'll stick my neck out, in the expectation of being decapitated... To be honest... .. I wonder when AVSIM has gotten to the point of being a group of bitter, sour, grumpy psychophants. Who only sees things in the most negative light, are constantly critical to the point of it being ridiculous, IMO. Now, I don't mind people expressing their opinion and having a debate. But sometimes the prase 'If you can't say anything positive, don't say anything at all' counts. I mean - where did the constructive critisism go? AVSIM was actually on of the few forums on the web, where the dialog and debate was interesting and well-founded... I've been here for nearly 13 years - and lately... well - I think, that 'rules of engagement' with each other, has become more direct - and more hostile. It saddens me, to be honest. Where did the decency go? It feels like it's just more of the same rant, shouting of how bad/terrible/wrong something looks in some preview. Or some poor developer who has or hasn't released an update. Bereting other users, for having an opinion, which differs from the 'mainstream'. 😞 This was one of the few forums, that didn't have the extremism and hostile, lynching, evil and sometimes cruel posts, which haunts Facebook and Reddit (to name a few)... It doesn't feel that way, anymore. I'm not really sure why this has happened or how; But the general tone on the internet (at least on social media) is becoming more hostile, more close minded and more user-centric and egotistic. There's no respect towards other opinions anymore - and even worse there's a lack of respect towards other users. After a long time thinking - I have come to the conclusion, that I will be taking a break - at least from posting - in here for awhile. Now, before you start cheering to loudly - I will (probably) return at some point. However, it's a hard decision to make, but it has come to a point for me, that it's simply not worth the time and effort, contantly having to defend or engage in combatitative discussions who simply cannot fathom or concept the idea of a viewpoint, which differs from their own. It has become polarized. It's really, really sad, that (some) users in here contantly are getting in your face, expressing a hostile and condescending tone towards you, that you, when you post something on a thread, you get the feeling, that you're no longer contributing to the debate - you annoying the users and sabotating the debate. When that occurs, the feeling of 'being punched in the stomach' (to use a figure of speech) gets worse and worse... Now, I'm not saying this, because I have soft skin. I think (quite honestly) that I've taken my share of beating in here - but at some point, it comes to a point, where you simply just don't care anymore - about anything... To be honest - this demeanor and attitude in here, is like a disease. And the way I see it - it's spreading... It is my only hope, that AVSIM can combat it! Anyway... I'm done unburdning myself. To all you wonderful people - have a nice evening. I'm done; and I'm out! Goodbye, Anders

+1

What are you talking about??? Listen - lets just leave it at this. Please.

Could you please stop with the confrontational attitude? Wow, you act like I have insulted someone... *SIGH* Why does everything on AVSIM need a hostile underlying attitude and condecending demeanor? Whatever happened to common decency and manners towards each other?

-DELETED-

Wow!!! This forum, just keeps getting better and better! ... Whew... But fair enough! I just think, that it's highly unlikely - and a bit presumptious of people - to expect unlimited updated navigation data, AIRAC data and live AI traffic for free... But who knows.

No I'm not! I merely wondered if there would be a required subscription. You, on the other hand, hands down disregarded it - hence you make the conclusion (without any form of evidence), that everything included and shown in the Feature Videos will be a one-time payment. This might be the case - but don't just categorically reject, that it could be a different scenario.

How do you know this? It has been stated, that there will be no subscription for the data-part and online part of MSFS, yes. But honestly I highly doubt that continously updated navigational data, airac data and live ATC is completely free of charge! This is something we usually are charged a fee for, and I think it's reasonable to expect, that this will be the case here as well. Please refrain from jumping to conclusions... 🙂

Yearh... It seems (to me) like mostly the default FSX ATC - with some (relatively) minor improvements... But ATC is probably also the most complex part, so personally I wasn't expecting much in this area... The rest of the sim and implementation of flight-planning, AIRAC updates and live AI traffic (even though, it most likely involves a subscription). I hope I'm misunderstanding you here - but are you threathing him with violence?

Indeed. It's the way things are going for quite a lot of services... I don't mind either.

Can't see it 🙂

Agreed! Was wondering, though as they didn't mention it. But come to think about it, it is really quite obvious, that these parts has to be subscription based...

I can understand, that MSFS will be published, with a given navigational dataset (most likely the current one). But I wonder if all this; continously updated navigation data and live AI traffic, will be in included, or if it will require some sort of subscription model? It's suddenly quite a lot of stuff, we usually pay a fee for.