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My last words on fps...

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...at least I hope for awhile.I've spent the better part of the past year tweaking, poking, prodding, optimizing, installing, upgrading and configging FS9. By my estimation, I've used over 75% of my total time getting the thing to work and less than %25 actually flying. Does this seem silly?I like to call FS9 the little $25 Christmas gift from my sister that cost me $2000.Anyway, last night, I was doing some forum topic searching on a completely different subject when I came across a fairly significant thread about setting the framerate slider to unlimited. I read and read and read all of the opinions and thoughts in post after post; some provided through logical thought and some through shear emotion. Who knew that a slider could evoke such diverse reactions?One of the best posts on the subject was where the author of the original magazine article in which this tip was published basically told another individual to try the suggestion before criticizing it. So, I marched upstairs to the cockpit, climbed in, fired up the sim, yanked the slider all the way to the right, and took off from Seattle in a freshly installed HJG 707 dressed in TWA livery.While I was still experiencing some stuttering around KSEA, the change in the actual flight experience, flying if you will, was immediate and dramatic. I nosed the 707 down into a ridiculous landing dive at a small now nameless airport landing with no difficulty whatsoever. I attribute this to both the great HJG model and the now fluid movement of FS9, certainly not my flying skill.Back at Seattle, I turned off AI traffic and flew again. The stutters virtually disappeared except around intense autogen areas and the fluidity of motion was spectacular. I've never seen textures load like that and have never enjoyed simulated flying so much.From my experience, running FS9 is a series of tradeoffs and the primary resource hogs are AI, clouds and autogen. I have a modest yet quite capable rig loaded up with terrain meshes, landclass, textures, sceneries, day and night environments, and a bunch of crap I can't even remember. However, I know that AI is always a huge resource pig and, though I hate to fly alone, I guess we all have to come to the realization that we can either fly, or watch the pretty scenery and airplane filled skies.So, the bottom line is, give the unlimited framerate slider thing a try. I know it flies in the face of everything you know, but it's worth the effort. Turn off the AI and anything else you can live without.Personally, I am so done with this tweaking stuff. I've got a 21" monitor and CH throttle quadrant on the way to further compliment my cockpit. It's time to fly.lynx

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I turned off AI traffic a few months ago, and I've never been happier. While I miss it, the fps hit was way too much for me. Getting rid of AI traffic got rid of the majority of my stutters. At first it was hard letting go of AI, but now when I fly real IFR procedures, I don't have to worry about what the other aircraft are doing.

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Lynx,Nice reading indeed.The quest for perfection has just cost me

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"The 'unlimited FPS' slider hint is wrong though. Put it back to '20'. Otherwise FS9 has been known to be searching for .BGL files on the other side of the world to where your flying. This ultimately slows your fps even more."That's interesting. Did someone discover this using Filemon? Can you point me to a thread? -John

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I read these threads with interest and thank my lucky stars- I must be one of the lucky ones. My system runs FS9 with all settings maxed out, full 100% AI traffic (FPS-friendly models from AIA, EVAI, FSP), add-on scenery, real-time weather, etc and have no issues maintaining at least 20FPS nearly all the time. The only time I see dips is when on approach to a busy airport as the machine loads aircraft; or if I am in an area with lots of puffy cumulus clouds. Even then the FPS hit is manageable, rarely dropping much below 15. System: P4 3.4GHZ, 2GB CorsairXMS DDR2 RAM, 120GB Seagate SATA HD (FS9 resides on its own partition), ATI X800Pro PCI-E 256mb. This runs a dual-monitor setup. All I've done is tweak a few settings here and there per various sources and found what works for me. The dream is not impossible.

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i have one of the fastest computers out there, but AI traffic brings it to its knees with a fully functional VC and addon scenery.It does look awesome though, but sometimes my FPS goes into single digits. it is still "smooth" enough for me to fly and enjoy. I also run 1600x1200 which is an even bigger framerate killer

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>i have one of the fastest computers out there, but AI traffic>brings it to its knees with a fully functional VC and addon>scenery.>>It does look awesome though, but sometimes my FPS goes into>single digits. it is still "smooth" enough for me to fly and>enjoy. I also run 1600x1200 which is an even bigger framerate>killerI generally run full screen at 2048 when I grab screenshots. My FPS still stays very close to 20 at all times. If I am flying on Vatsim I will run windowed mode, and usually 1152 resolution. What kind of AI traffic are you using? The ones included with Ultimate Traffic and that other package are known as serial-FPS-killers. :-)

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I consisitenly get 25-20 FPS while running FS9, FSNAv, ActiveSky6, and Ultimate Traffic in both 2D and 3D Panels with all the sliders full to the right with the exception of Clouds. I also have an SLI Mobo but don't run two cards because FS9 doesn't support SLI and is mainly processor intensive and won't take advantage of an SLI setup. Craig AMD64 3500 ASUS A8N SLI Mobo 1G RAM 200G HD 80G Hd Creative SB Audigy2 Nvidia 6600 GT PCIe

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>> I consisitenly get 25-20 FPS while running FS9, FSNAv,>ActiveSky6,> and Ultimate Traffic in both 2D and 3D Panels with all the>sliders> full to the right with the exception of Clouds.>> I also have an SLI Mobo but don't run two cards because FS9>doesn't > support SLI and is mainly processor intensive and won't take>advantage> of an SLI setup.>> Craig>> AMD64 3500> ASUS A8N SLI Mobo> 1G RAM> 200G HD> 80G Hd> Creative SB Audigy2> Nvidia 6600 GT PCIe>HI Craig, glad to see I'm not the only "lucky one" who gets good performance from FS9. :)

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Thanks Jim,I had followed that thread, but can't see where having the fps slider locked would decrease or eliminate the issue the thread describes. I've had my fps slider set to unlimited after having it locked for about the first year of using FS2004. I switched it to unlimited one day when I was flying way out in the middle of nowhere, just to see if I could really glean a difference between 20 fps and 50 fps (I most certainly did!). I never locked it again, not because I get 50 fps everywhere (I most certainly can't), but because I found as a side effect that the sim seemed to be a bit smoother, especially in spot view. For my old system, FS2002 seems to prefer a fps lock, and FS2004 doesn't. I suspect the best advice is to try it both ways, and whatever way works best, stick with it. I haven't tweaked in ages.-John

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Got to agree with John & lynx here. I've started doing something I havn't done in a long time. I've stopped tweaking and have started flying. Spend too much time for that last 1 FPS.JimCYWG

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I used UT when it first came out, learned how to add traffic manually, and with aardvark, fspainter, etc models, never looked back. all my sliders are maxed, with the screen resolution I talked about, and custom AI traffic that has a bgl file of about 100 MBs

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>While I was still experiencing some stuttering around KSEA,>the change in the actual flight experience, flying if you>will, was immediate and dramatic. Anyone who has used a trick a few times and declares it meaningful, is likely to find his theory tested and refuted. This is because every single situation is so dependent on myriads of variables that it is almost impossible to postulate any universal truths! JMO . . .>Personally, I am so done with this tweaking stuff. I've got a>21" monitor and CH throttle quadrant on the way to further>compliment my cockpit. >It's time to fly.>>lynxWell, we'll see! Half the fun is in the tweaking. It's why you did this 75% of the time. Though I must admit I don't do alot of experimentation anymore having experimented with tons of possibilities, though I do adjust settings per each flight in order to set the sim up to perform best for the scenario I will be flying in. Also, the FPS slider has been explained by FS developers, why it was put in, and what purpose it serves. Of course, with an infinite number of variables to tweak and have happen in the course of a flight, there are clearly setting configurations that will allow you to set the slider to unlimited, and have performance clearly be the best, if frames are your only concern. JMO!Cheers,Noel

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I agree Noel, half the fun is experimenting and tweaking....the hard part is remembering what you did:) If you want local low and slow VFR then maxing some or all of the settings is great. If you are cruising at FL 320 for half or your flight then there isn't much point in having autogen or anything else you don't need cranked up to the max or on at all or set at a reasonable level. What's the point of landing at 145 and being able to see a house whiz by. I can assure you that when you are landing a heavy you certainly aren't sightseeing. So with Noels thoughts in mind use the sliders like they are intended. Tailor them to your flight but quit trying to reach the Holy Grail of framerates....it will tend to make you crazy !!!!

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"Tailor them to your flight but quit trying to reach the Holy Grailof framerates....it will tend to make you crazy !!!!"Crazy, you say??? That is an under statement!! I have spent everyday and night with every free moment I have 7 days a week, 365 days...well you get the picture. Tweeking, changing this, removing that, rebooting 8 billion times, fsauto start, free ramXP, crash... reboot, open fs9cfg., change another setting, start fs9, "hey I 've got something here...ooops..(Stutter, crash etc.. spoke too soon...) I am so exausted now that I have most of my sliders mid range. Low cloud dens, The only thing I changed is pan speed to 700, multi band width to 110. Extended radius and such are at all zeros out of the box. FPS is locked at 28. I enjoy FS9 now more than ever. Do stutters bother me??? You bet they do, but after all of this I finally realized there is nothing I can do about it, other than spending a fortune on a new rig. I'll wait for FSX for that. I case anyone is interested my specs are below. Happy flying everyone. I wish I was a millionaire!!Asus A7N8XDeluxe MB / AMD2800XP+barton cpu / 1.5 gigs Dual ch ddr pc3200 ram / Nvidia 6800GT AGP / 550watt pwr supply / Win2000pro (only 14 processes running) CH Products yoke usb and rudder peddles40gig 7200 IDE HD (20 Gigs left) 20 gig second IDE 15gigleft (Virtual memory set on that drive)

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> I also have an SLI Mobo but don't run two cards because FS9>doesn't > support SLI...There's nothing to support my man. It's just double the cards, more or less, and doesn't require game support. All of the SLI mixing is handled through the GPU drivers. So pop in another card and enjoy it! :)-Jeremy Burchhttp://home.earthlink.net/~dawgfighter/sit...es/swvasig1.gifSWVA4806 http://www.virtualswa.com/home.phpThe Ozark Dogfighter http://forums.avsim.net/images/wedge.gifHappy Flying!BOAC: Heathrow Centre, British Airways Speedbird Flight 723HC: British Airways Speedbird Flight 723, Heathrow Centre, go aheadBOAC: Heathrow Centre, British Airways Speedbird Flight 723 has a message for youHC: British Airways Speedbird Flight 723, Heathrow Centre is ready to copy messageBOAC: Heathrow Centre, British Airways Speedbird Flight 723, message is as follows: Mayday, Mayday, Mayday ....

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From my experience, I have to agree that I get worse performance with the slider at unlimited than I do locked at 24. Can't give you a detailed description as to why as I felt I'd rather play my sim than spend another 2 hours researching into why it was running better. :-lol----------------------------------------------------------------John MorganReal World: KGEG, UND Aerospace Spokane Satillite, Private ASEL 141.2 hrs, 314 landings, 46 inst. apprs.Virtual: MSFS 2004"There is a feeling about an airport that no other piece of ground can have. No matter what the name of the country on whose land it lies, an airport is a place you can see and touch that leads to a reality that can only be thought and felt." - The Bridge Across Forever: A Love Story by Richard Bach

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>I read these threads with interest and thank my lucky stars->I must be one of the lucky ones. My system runs FS9 with all>settings maxed out, full 100% AI traffic (FPS-friendly models>from AIA, EVAI, FSP),......<<>> I guess this is the key. Although I have a fairly fast system I had small stutters every once in a while in areas with a lot of traffic. I was using UT until I installed that Acrobat or what's it called AI package with all the better looking but more fps friendly planes. No stutters ever since.Alex

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I also have $2000 "twenty-dollar game"!Here's something I haven't heard people touch on but I found while trying to avoid turing off Ai traffic. While poking around the Traffic 2006 forum, the developer wrote a thread in which he directed readers to the Blog of one of the MS flight sim developers (Steve something). Steve had an exchange in which he discussed the pupose of the Max bandwith multiplier and max texture size parameters (not at home and don't remember the names exactly). Anyway he mentions that FS uses these parameters in various ways to optimize fps and minimize stutters UNLESS the framerate is set to unlimited. I'm don't know much about these things, but I'd be interested in the implications because it seems to me that one implication it that the puzzle is more complicated. Unlimited can be good unless one needs to optimize these other parameters (say to take better advantage of bus speeds). In these circumstances it seems, just shy of unlimited would be better (the slider is a multiplier in some of the computations and unlimited is undefined it appears). Anyways, just interested in whether others read about this too.

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There is so much subjectivity here, it's really almost useless to try and compare one person's sense of what's acceptable to anyone elses. Personaly, I'm not happy with less than 15FPS. I don't care what the so-called "experts" say, I can feel it in the way the aircraft handles, the fluidity aspect disappears, and I can see it. Thats me. I tried locking my frames at 25 but when your used to maneuvering at 40-50 FPS climbing out of Seattle, if you have the rig to do it, 20-25 doesn't feel right at all. Another person says he can accept below 15FPS, even single digit frame-rates(!), and that feels ok to him (hard to imagine, but ok, to each his own). Of interest was a recent post by Koorby summarizing his observations and the settings he feels help enhance performance in FS9. Most I've tested and work for me. I would only disagree with the locking of frame rates at 20-25, and if I set TEXTURE_BANDWIDTH_MULT=40 to anything more than 100, I get stutters. What a great hobby, eh?http://forums.avsim.net/dcboard.php?az=sho...d=303782&page=3http://www.graphics-free.com/animations/tr...ges/plane_6.gifAlex ChristoffN562ZBaltimore, MD

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>Thanks Jim,>>I had followed that thread, but can't see where having the fps>slider locked would decrease or eliminate the issue the thread>describes. I've had my fps slider set to unlimited after>having it locked for about the first year of using FS2004. I>switched it to unlimited one day when I was flying way out in>the middle of nowhere, just to see if I could really glean a>difference between 20 fps and 50 fps (I most certainly did!). >>>I never locked it again, not because I get 50 fps everywhere>(I most certainly can't), but because I found as a side effect>that the sim seemed to be a bit smoother, especially in spot>view. For my old system, FS2002 seems to prefer a fps lock,>and FS2004 doesn't. I suspect the best advice is to try it>both ways, and whatever way works best, stick with it. I>haven't tweaked in ages.>>-John John here's a link to Steve Lacey's blog entry on the subject, explaning that by setting Unlimited FPS can starve FS of time to accomplish other tasks within it's fiber system, and can introduce or increase problems such as the blurries.http://www.steve-lacey.com/blogarchives/20..._blurries.shtml

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<>I have a similar system and agree with your conclusions.Regards,Jim

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I saw the blog entry some time back, but it doesn't mention unlimited fps causing FS2004 to search for scenery on the other side of the globe. Regardless, I have had no ill effects--unlimited works for me and I haven't had any blurries. I wonder how much having a clean simming system (with no background tasks) throws into the equation. Few are cleaner than mine in those terms--I don't like processes gumming up my flight experience :) That, and having realistic expectations--I know my system is old 'n slow and have forgone AI and Autogen to compensate. MSFS seems equal to the remaining challenges I give it despite Steve's advice in his blog.-John

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