nand144

Stock navaids P3D v.3

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Hi all flightsimmers,

I am working on the missing, misplaced and "runway only" airfields in the Russian region. Already many found, designed and uploaded for the FS community.

I am facing problem with stock NDB's at 2 or 3 airports. I relocated them in the stock bgl on my system files and now those fields are as in the official Russian AIP. Without that modification there would be 2 NDB's with same ID and frequentie at a few 100 meters separation, not very helpfull when doing a NDB approach.

Now my question: Is it allowed to distribute those modified stock bgl files in my freeware scenerys (wel...more afcads made with ADE) and upload them?

Thanks for any reply

greetings

nand144

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It should be. I have payware sceneries that mess with the default files as well (Drzewiecki Baku for example).

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Hi,

I think It would be better to include a 'exclude=North Latitude,West Longitude, South Latitude, East Longitude,ndbs ’ property for your scenery layer(s) in the scenery.cfg file. This will remove the stock NDBs for that area without the need to modify stock bgl files.

Maarten

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Thanks all for the reply's so far.

Maarten, a "exclude" is perhaps a solution but it means that the person who downloaded the scenery has to be aware of how to modify the scenery.cfg.

The updates from Herve Sors navaids database does also modify the stock navavaids (even for the whole world) and I must admit that a lot of the original outdated stock ndb's in Russia are now as published in the AIP. Glad i updated them.

I'm curious what LM wil answer when I ask the question there. Anyway I will keep those 2 or 3 airfields on hold until i'm sure.

Anyway, thanks for the replys.

Greetings,

Fernand Verbraecken

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IMHO I think the question will be the difference between your product modifying existing files and DISTRIBUTING modified files.

Only LM can make that call because the original files are copyrighted. If it were me, I would NOT distribute modified copyrighted files without specific permission.

Vic

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This is an example of a downside to putting data that changes into hardcoded binary files.  It was cheaper for Microsoft to keep this approach instead of the much better database approach, but they were making decisions on how to best make a game rather than a simulation of real world flight.  I hope that someday LM will move all navaids and navdata into a database from bgl files, because they are not interesting in making just a game for entertainment.

I run into the same issue with almost every airport I create in ADE.  I can distribute (as freeware) the airport, scenery, landclass and navaids associated with the default airport in a set of ADE files; however, anything such as beacons and NDBs that are not in the airport BGL but are in the regional nvx or navigation bgl will be unchanged.  If the default OM MM and IM markers are now obsolete, I cannot remove them except by modifying the original NVX bgl file.  Modifying this file and then distributing it would be a bad idea because each addon in that scenery area would have it's own set of mods to the original and none of the modified files would be comprehensive.  It's a darned mess.

Just my two cents.  I modify my NVX files as I desire, I just don't feel as though its a good idea to distribute my modified files.

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Hi Dan,

Indeed it's a mess. What bothers me the most is that LM just uses the navaids database from MS, outdated since FS2002. I find almost the same faults in P3D v.3 as when i made the fields for Russia in FS2004, Runways 3 km out of place and 12 degrees out of direction. Try a 2 NDB approach with navs 2 miles beside the rwy. Luckely an update from Herve Sors "World Navaids" did a good job. But the navs for the Russian domestic fields are not fully international published.

I asked the same question for distributing those files on the LM forum. Just waiting what they will respond.

Regards,

F. Verbraecken

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19 hours ago, nand144 said:

I asked the same question for distributing those files on the LM forum. Just waiting what they will respond.

Unless you hear from them, I would suggest that as long as you are distributing modified NVX bgl files for free and personal use only that you should proceed.  If you hear from them it will probably be the same response.  You are not doing anything different with the navaid bgl that you are dong with the airport bgl and there are readily available free tools to modify these files.  I would suggest that once you modify a NVX that you ensure any future mods and made available to everyone you distribute the original mods too.

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Thanks for the reply Dan,

That's about what i was thinking too. I wait until monday for a reply from LM, it's weekend anyway there. Still a few more tests and i'm ready to upload those UELL and USRK together with 11 more missing or "misplaced" fields and a lot of cosmetic updates for my earlier uploads.

Regards,

F. Verbraecken

 

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Still recommend caution - you have reverse engineered a copyrighted item and are distributing the modified item. That's two laws broken for starters. Rather than just posting in the LM forum, I'd suggest a PM to Adam Breed.

Chances are it will be fine as long as it is freeware BUT if it is not.........

Vic

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Hi Vic,

Distributing the modified files(s) might be an issue and that's why using an exclude with proper instructions or a scenery installer is the better option.

If 'reverse engineering' of scenery bgl files were to be a problem, then most of us would be in trouble for using illegal software: many add-on developers (myself included) are reading (scenery) bgl files to create a scenery database. The bgl file format has been published in many places on the internet (most notably fsdeveloper.com) a long time ago.

Maarten

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Oh I agree with you completely Maarten, especially about the reverse engineering - but better to lay it out there JIC. I feel pretty sure LM will have no problem with what is being discussed but you never know with corporate lawyers.

Vic

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