Wanted - a more realistic Ai package than MyTrafficPro

[tutmeister 710]

Just out of interest Ray, what is your traffic density slider set to in MT6?

Chris

[Ray Proudfoot 8,958]

5 minutes ago, tutmeister said:

Just out of interest Ray, what is your traffic density slider set to in MT6?

Chris

From memory around 30% in P3D v3.4 but I use FSUIPC to limit the Ai to 150.

[tutmeister 710]

Hmm, I don't know then. Which schedule are you using in it?

This post isn't going to be much help to you but I have been using it for a while at had it set the same and saw what was a pretty good representation of traffic around various airports. Manchester gave a reasonable feel with the a380 and 747s turning up and taxying out roughly when they should and what I would consider the right amount of aircraft on gates from everytime I go to the AVP. Is this problem only affecting Lisbon?

Chris

[pmb 5,137]

20 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

They will be accurate on the day the data is captured but can soon become inaccurate. It would be interesting to know how often the schedules are updated. Two or three times a year would be welcome even if it was subscription based.

As a GA flyer, I am not that dependent on accurate plans, I just want plausible traffic instead of just empty airports.

The present plans are from sometime in the last year. I recall F1 promised to deliver a Power Pack and updated flightplans regularly but given the devloper has a tendency to disappear into the blue air for longer time spans, I wouldn't rely on this too much.

Besides, UTL is weak on cargo traffic. However, there are two 3rd party two addon packages available for FedEx and UPS (which I didn't install yet myself).

Kind regards, Michael 

[Lorby_SI 2,038]

33 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Oliver,

I've just watched your video on your website and note that aircraft don't taxi to the gate or from the gate. They don't populate the gates either.

I appreciate you're restricted to real world data so can't control all aspects. Is that situation likely to change or can that payware alternative do these things?

Hello Ray,

no, I don't plan to implement anything to that regard, this app is basically just for plane spotting. As to why:

1. If you can see the real aircraft depends on the transponder being switched on, and it has to be the right transponder technology too. You will not see all live traffic, because, depending on the datasource, some of them will simply not show up at all.

2. The free datasources don't have that kind of accuracy, mostly they don't even have usable data below a few hundred feet (because the receivers are too far away from the airport). 

3. Commercial datasources are expensive. You may think that RealTraffic is pretty good so it is worth the price - but it isn't as good as using the FlightAware API would be. Using FlightAware will set you back about $5-10 every hour - I made a client for that too, but I have never made it available to the public - there is just no point.

Personally, I don't like "live live" traffic much, so I am lacking the motivation too to continue development. Traffic without ATC is just something to look at, getting in my way. And even if ATC would be present, I can only fly realistically if I go with the flow. I basically have to hijack one of the actual flights and suppress it in the software - which is not a problem for the program, but for me as the pilot. I have to depart exactly on time and in the same way, fly exactly the route of the real plane, and I have to arrive at my destination exactly on time too - otherwise I don't have a slot for landing. Funny as this may sound, but I don't like real traffic in my sim because it is so unrealistic.

I have been toying with the idea of injecting the real traffic based on a different technique, so that they will be followed verbally by ATC (which would look like ATC is controlling them). But they wouldn't fly like the real ones anymore, or there would be a huge time lag. And there is the problem that the online departure and arrival airport information is not reliable, the planes might fly to totally different places.

Best regards

[Ray Proudfoot 8,958]

15 minutes ago, tutmeister said:

Hmm, I don't know then. Which schedule are you using in it?

This post isn't going to be much help to you but I have been using it for a while at had it set the same and saw what was a pretty good representation of traffic around various airports. Manchester gave a reasonable feel with the a380 and 747s turning up and taxying out roughly when they should and what I would consider the right amount of aircraft on gates from everytime I go to the AVP. Is this problem only affecting Lisbon?

Chris

From memory probably the 2013 one. If aircraft are starting from the gates then that's encouraging. Having them appear half-way to the active would not be realistic. But it's important for me that they can be seen by Radar Contact.

I notice it most at LPPT as I fly there regularly in P3D and find the stands are always full. The 150 limit probably needs reducing for smaller airports as I don't have the same problem when landing at LFPG.

[GSalden 4,657]

52 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Thanks Gerard. Do you have this yourself? How does it compare to MyTraffic or whatever package you had / have?

Hi Ray,

This adds so much to realism.

Knowing that every real departure , arrival , delay can be seen.

You have to pay attention when flying in an approach queu as you are having aircraft in front of you and following you .

Taxiing is a little more smooth with a addon package. 

Always the correct rw’s in use ; no Afcad switching .

I only have the Aircraft folder left in the MT root folder.

Framerate is way better , just perhaps 5% loss with 70 parked and 30+ live aircraft. Try MT or UTLive with 100 aircraft at a major airport ..

regards, Gerard

[Ray Proudfoot 8,958]

Hi Oliver,

Thanks for your honest and refreshing post. Clearly grabbing real world traffic data is an expensive business and what we have in P3D are compromises to make it affordable for the average simmer.

I fully understand if you don't have the interest to investigate the possibilities further. We all have our own priorities. I suppose it's just a case of making the best of what we have available to us.

I'm attaching a screenshot of SuperTrafficBoard with the sim set at 13:47 local time at Lisbon, Portugal. Just look at how many aircraft MTPro has injected into the sim. Many don't take off for hours and yet they are still there. Why? If they only became visible within one hour of their departure that would be acceptable. Maybe the work to do this is just too much and I know Burkhard has not been in the best of health so it's no personal criticism.

FSUIPC does have tools to customise Ai and I have it set at 150. I'll look at what else it can control. LPPT seems like a good place to start.

[Ray Proudfoot 8,958]

28 minutes ago, GSalden said:

Hi Ray,

This adds so much to realism.

Knowing that every real departure , arrival , delay can be seen.

You have to pay attention when flying in an approach queu as you are having aircraft in front of you and following you .

Taxiing is a little more smooth with a addon package. 

Always the correct rw’s in use ; no Afcad switching .

I only have the Aircraft folder left in the MT root folder.

Framerate is way better , just perhaps 5% loss with 70 parked and 30+ live aircraft. Try MT or UTLive with 100 aircraft at a major airport ..

regards, Gerard

You make a good case Gerard. I want to work with FSUIPC first to see if I can reduce the number of aircraft injected so far ahead of their slot times. If I can't make it any better I'll certainly look at this package.

[pgde 571]

14 hours ago, dmarques69 said:

The reason i didnt bought UTL yet, but is taking so long with no clue of a release date :(

Already released -- version 1.1.0.0.

[Lorby_SI 2,038]

3 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

You make a good case Gerard. I want to work with FSUIPC first to see if I can reduce the number of aircraft injected so far ahead of their slot times. If I can't make it any better I'll certainly look at this package.

If ATC is as important to you as it is to me, you won't be too happy, I suppose (which is why I suggested trying the free variant first).

But I admit that I am biased. My father was an air traffic controller and my uncle a captain with a large airline. I have a very specific idea about how air traffic is supposed to happen. Flying in a silent sky or listening to pre-recorded chatter, slotting my 737 between two airliners on approach on my own accord without losing my pilots license, that is just not realistic for me. Neither are aircraft that will fly right through me (yes, that happens with native AI too - but listening to ATC I can avoid situations like that). But that may just be me.

Best regards

[Lorby_SI 2,038]

58 minutes ago, GSalden said:

Hi Ray,

This adds so much to realism.

Knowing that every real departure , arrival , delay can be seen.

You have to pay attention when flying in an approach queu as you are having aircraft in front of you and following you .

Taxiing is a little more smooth with a addon package. 

Always the correct rw’s in use ; no Afcad switching .

I only have the Aircraft folder left in the MT root folder.

Framerate is way better , just perhaps 5% loss with 70 parked and 30+ live aircraft. Try MT or UTLive with 100 aircraft at a major airport ..

regards, Gerard

Hello Gerard,

not sure if it is already there, but maybe Kiek would be inclined to add a "this is me" button. This button would suppress the assigned real world flight so that the simulator pilot can take its place. 

This doesn't make any sense in my app, but it might in his. At least a pilot could get proper slots for taxi, departure or landing. Ideally your own aircraft would be transported right to were the real world plane was.

All of this is only a few lines of code.

Best reagrds

[Ray Proudfoot 8,958]

22 minutes ago, Lorby_SI said:

If ATC is as important to you as it is to me, you won't be too happy, I suppose (which is why I suggested trying the free variant first).

But I admit that I am biased. My father was an air traffic controller and my uncle a captain with a large airline. I have a very specific idea about how air traffic is supposed to happen. Flying in a silent sky or listening to pre-recorded chatter, slotting my 737 between two airliners on approach on my own accord without losing my pilots license, that is just not realistic for me. Neither are aircraft that will fly right through me (yes, that happens with native AI too - but listening to ATC I can avoid situations like that). But that may just be me.

Best regards

I live 3 miles from EGCC and have a decent Yupitera scanner that I listen to ATC with. But I only go to the airport when it's warm and sit on the grass embankments overlooking 23L. But in P3D as long as I can recognise a few familiar aircraft and their departure times are accurate that will do me.

I use RC4 so get a reasonable real world input to flying. I don't do VatSim or those other ones.

Having looked at STB's departure schedule it struck me that if the flights that aren't departing for more than 2 hours could be identified they could be deleted. I had a quick chat with Pete D about that and it's something he may look at but with no assurance or timescale. But removing those aircraft injected far too early would certainly help things.

As it stands I've adjusted the parameters in FSUIPC and now have some free stands at LPPT whilst still having 60+ aircraft at the airport.

[dmarques69 316]

44 minutes ago, pgde said:

Already released -- version 1.1.0.0.

?? You are talking about UTL i was talking about this https://www.justflight.com/product/traffic-global

the one i quoted ;)

[dmarques69 316]

53 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Hi Oliver,

Thanks for your honest and refreshing post. Clearly grabbing real world traffic data is an expensive business and what we have in P3D are compromises to make it affordable for the average simmer.

I fully understand if you don't have the interest to investigate the possibilities further. We all have our own priorities. I suppose it's just a case of making the best of what we have available to us.

I'm attaching a screenshot of SuperTrafficBoard with the sim set at 13:47 local time at Lisbon, Portugal. Just look at how many aircraft MTPro has injected into the sim. Many don't take off for hours and yet they are still there. Why? If they only became visible within one hour of their departure that would be acceptable. Maybe the work to do this is just too much and I know Burkhard has not been in the best of health so it's no personal criticism.

FSUIPC does have tools to customise Ai and I have it set at 150. I'll look at what else it can control. LPPT seems like a good place to start.

 

Thats reallistic because we have a lot of delays in Lisbon , LPPT is always a good place to start and to end ;)