PF3 ATC - anybody else struggle this much? [VIDEO]

[JKawai 7]

I bought PF3 because I thought it was going to be a malleable piece of ATC software where, for example, if it started giving stupidly large approach patterns (like some other ATC programs), you'd be able to tweak it so it didn't. However, I've done about 5 flights since my major sim overhaul to P3D v4 and every flight has been filled with problems, particularly from PF3. I'm posting this both here and (when accepted on the forum) on the PF3 forum, but I wanted to post here because I figured it would see more light.

As I say, every flight I've done so far has had a major problem with PF3, from it just going silent midflight and not responding to anything, to not ever giving me clearance to land, or telling me to hold short at a runway and then never giving me clearance to take off (and not responding to any keypresses again either). 

The latter happened in the flight I have videos of below, along with two other (big) problems.

The first was in the first video, where I was cleared for takeoff, given a departure heading of 300º and I followed the instruction. At no point then was I ever given the instruction to resume own navigation and eventually, at 20-something thousand feet I'm told I'm 8 miles off the airway. I look at PF3 and it still thinks I'm heading for TNT, my first waypoint out of EGNX. 

There is then no way of me overriding this. I tried asking for DCT TO, but this was "unavailable at this time". The only solution was to warp (not a solution).

Then, (video 2) I was told to descend to one thousand feet on approach to Rwy 7 at EGAA. I was on a heading of 290 towards BEL (Belfast VOR). Now, I had read in the manual that if you have any waypoints too close to the airport (this was 1nm away), it can cause problems; however this post [https://www.avsim.com/forums/topic/483009-pf3-atc-program-thoughts/?do=findComment&comment=3369775] contradicts this. 

So I'm at 1000', hdg 290, heading directly for BEL, as if PF3 is waiting for me to complete the plan to death before it vectors me. (In the video I'm going way too fast here as well, because of another problem I need to address, getting the PMDG 738 to slow the **** down, but that's another matter). In the video you can see PF3 take me OVER the airport at 1000', then turn me on a heading of 105 (???) going away from any semblance of an intercept for Rwy 07. It then continues giving me ridiculous headings hurtling towards hills. I let it continue because I was admiring how good ORBX is for a while, before eventually just giving up and thought that was enough to be going on with in terms of questionning WHY.

Unfortunately I didn't have debug enabled but from now on I definitely will. In the mean time, can anybody suggest anything? 

Thanks,

Jon

[DrumsArt 270]

Hi,

I suggest you to have a look at these two videos :

 

 

Regards,

[Dean33 69]

I’m not saying you haven’t had problems with PF3. I believe Dave on their forum will help.  I’ve found his support rapid and extensive  

I have a lot of ATC experience on Pilotedge so I’ve got a pretty good idea what’s ‘right’. 

I bought PF3 several months ago. I’ve flown maybe 20 flights and never had an ATC problem that wasn’t my fault in setup in some way.

My advice is stick with it and repeat the same flight with debug on. 

[b1bmsgt 207]

Try Radar Contact. It's a bit old, but it works pretty well, at least for me...

 

Russ

[Bobsk8 12,730]

I used PF3 for quite awhile with GA aircraft, now I am back to flying the Q400 and have moved back to Pro ATC X and it has been flawless so far after about 40 flights. I really like the stars and sids that you get every time when they are available at the airports. . I never liked the way stars and sids worked in PF3. 

 

[regis9 4,014]

Unfortunately I've run into a lot of the same issues you have and PF3 has never been something I've used much as a result.  It may be that I'm doing something wrong in the config but the program overall seemed very finicky to me.  Having to use key commands rather than a visible menu made it much harder for me to keep tabs on what was going on.  I ended up being frustrated way too much for me to send more time on it.

It's really too bad as there are some very good features, voices that change depending on airline/location etc and coverage of ICAO and FAA rules depending on location are highlights.  Every once and a while I decide to give it another try and always end up installing it out of frustration.

 

[Dean33 69]

1 hour ago, b1bmsgt said:

Try Radar Contact. It's a bit old, but it works pretty well, at least for me...

 

Russ

Russ 

I've used Radar Contact for years and it’s a great program. 

Personally I’ve found PF3 to be a great enhancement on RC4 whilst still being solid and reliable- without ever leaving me hanging. 

It’s key improvements compared to RC4 are:  great taxi instructions (in and out), better SIDS AND STARS, it does VFR!

if you like RC4 I recommend you try PF3 trial version  

 

[RALF9636 1,957]

Your first video shows that Departure gives you a squawk which is unusual because you should have set the correct squawk already at that stage. 

Did you set the squawk Departure gave you? If not, that is probably the reason you did not get any other instruction because ATC was waiting for you to set the transponder correctly.

 

Your second video shows that you did not comply with the speed instructions ATC gave you which probably is the reason you did not get any further vectors because ATC was waiting for you to slow down to a reasonable speed.

 

Please try again, complying with all ATC instructions you get.

If you want to be vectored earlier you should not include the last waypoint(s) in the flightplan you load into PF3. The PF3-vectoring always starts after the last waypoint of the PF3-flightplan. 

 

If you still have problems you best report these on the PF3 forum with your logs attached.

 

[JKawai 7]

37 minutes ago, RALF9636 said:

Your first video shows that Departure gives you a squawk which is unusual because you should have set the correct squawk already at that stage. 

Did you set the squawk Departure gave you? If not, that is probably the reason you did not get any other instruction because ATC was waiting for you to set the transponder correctly.

 

Your second video shows that you did not comply with the speed instructions ATC gave you which probably is the reason you did not get any further vectors because ATC was waiting for you to slow down to a reasonable speed.

 

Please try again, complying with all ATC instructions you get.

If you want to be vectored earlier you should not include the last waypoint(s) in the flightplan you load into PF3. The PF3-vectoring always starts after the last waypoint of the PF3-flightplan. 

 

If you still have problems you best report these on the PF3 forum with your logs attached.

 

Thank you so much for this, I'll try all of that. Yes squawk was entered, unfortunately I was a doofus and because I couldn't find Clearance delivery at EGNX, I called FSS instead... my bad. But squawk was entered. So, not sure what happened there. Will continue to fly with debug enabled and see what happens.

Yes, speed was difficult there, I think I'm going to reduce the descent rate in my PF3 preset so I can manage the descent and therefore speed better.

I didn't know the vectoring started after the last waypoint - I wonder what that point on the other post meant about the last waypoint being too close though? Nevertheless you're right and that was an atypical flight plan. Annoyingly I don't know how, in SimBrief, to remove waypoints before it outputs the flight plan.. will have a look into.
--------------

To everybody else, thank you for your suggestions. I would rather use PF3 for the reasons many above mention... a friend I used to sim with used RC and whilst it appeared to have many benefits I was put off buying it by the reportedly lengthy approaches it gave him (it kept putting him on final TWENTY-FIVE MILES OUT) with downwinds about 50nm away...

Thanks! Will get testing again

[Dave March 0]

If you need help with any of your problems you need to post on our dedicated support forum, and attach the relevant debug logs (I'm not sure why you would want to disable those but without them we have no way of knowing what's occurred) . If you're having problems registering on the forum then please email me direct so I can rectify that for you.

Regards

Dave March

PF3 Developer

dmarch@oncourse-software.co.uk

[JKawai 7]

27 minutes ago, Dave March said:

If you need help with any of your problems you need to post on our dedicated support forum, and attach the relevant debug logs (I'm not sure why you would want to disable those but without them we have no way of knowing what's occurred) . If you're having problems registering on the forum then please email me direct so I can rectify that for you.

Regards

Dave March

PF3 Developer

dmarch@oncourse-software.co.uk

Thanks, yes I did register last night but never got a confirmation email (even in spam/All Mail) - I sent an email afterwards through the contact board admin page mentioning this so await reply.

Debug is disabled by default. I've enabled it to '2' now. 

Cheers,

Jon

[JKawai 7]

11 hours ago, regis9 said:

Unfortunately I've run into a lot of the same issues you have and PF3 has never been something I've used much as a result.  It may be that I'm doing something wrong in the config but the program overall seemed very finicky to me.  Having to use key commands rather than a visible menu made it much harder for me to keep tabs on what was going on.  I ended up being frustrated way too much for me to send more time on it.

It's really too bad as there are some very good features, voices that change depending on airline/location etc and coverage of ICAO and FAA rules depending on location are highlights.  Every once and a while I decide to give it another try and always end up installing it out of frustration.

 

Yes... I just retried my flight from EGNX-EGAA and it was quite a laugh I must say:

****************

[Already been cleared to FL90 after departure, cruise altitude is FL240. Filed Plan: TNT Q4 WAL L10 IOM DCT NELBO P6 IPSET. SID end marked as 'TNT', SIDs Active in SID/STARS menu, but no other SID information entered as manual says they will leave me alone until TNT; however I was cleared on a hdg here and never taken off it, so SID was irrelevant].

4:24 – Ready to request IFR clearance from EGNX-EGAA. Frequencies available at EGNX are ATIS, Ground, Tower, Departure and FSS. All others are '000.00'. No frequency allows option for clearance except FSS, so FSS is tuned and clearance sought from there.

23:28 – Speedbird 145 Winds 250 at 21 runway 27 cleared for takeoff fly heading 285
Roger cleared for takeoff, fly heading 285, speedbird 145

24:20 - Speedbird 145 contact departure 132.6
24:30 – Roger speedbird 145

[Now on heading 285]
[Tuned departure]

25:18 Speedbird 145 no speed restriction
[Had no chance to check-in yet, gave 'Roger' command:]
25:23 132.6 Speedbird 145

EH?? Already readback at 24:30, and what about acknowledging no speed? So I sent the readback command again:

25:46 132.6 Speedbird 145 good day

Guess there's no 'no speed' readback then.

This all led me into the state of mind that I was 'checked in' with departure, but then realised I still wasn't. So I checked in:

27:50 Departure speedbird 145 with you level flight level 85
[I wasn't 'level', I was climbing to FL90 as initially cleared when I got IFR clearance]
 27:55 Speedbird 145 squawk 3635
[Readback]
[Tuned squawk, didn't Ident or anything]

Now holding at FL90

28:29 Speedbird 145 contact London control 124.55
28:34 124.55 Speedbird 145
[Tuned control]

28:42 Speedbird 145 climb and maintain FL190
[Again, not even checked in and Control have already given me an instruction]
28:50 Out of flight level 90 for FL190 no speed restriction speedbird 145

Now I'm repeatedly hitting '0' desperately trying to check in whilst control are giving me traffic advisories and other aircraft are checking in. Eventually I get through:

29:54 London Control speedbird 145 out of flight level 120 for FL90. [Yes, NINE ZERO]

HUH?! At 28:50 I was going to ONE NINE ZERO!

30:01 Roger Speedbird 145

[Don't know where this came from, must have been a lagged readback from earlier, no idea]

Then I got another traffic advisory and eventually came to hold at FL190, waiting for clearance to cruise altitude, FL240.

Holding at FL190 for about 4 minutes and I decided to 'check in' again (0)

34:39 London Control speedbird 145 is with you, out of flight level 190 for flight level 90
[1. I'm not 'out of', I'm level at! 2. How can I be climbing to a lower altitude?]
34:45 Speedbird 145 Roger

At this point I quit P3D.

[Drumcode 1,893]

13 hours ago, b1bmsgt said:

Try Radar Contact. It's a bit old, but it works pretty well, at least for me...

Still the best! It's a shame version 5 was never finished. :(

[JKawai 7]

21 minutes ago, Drumcode said:

Still the best! It's a shame version 5 was never finished. :(

How would RC be with an approach such as Innsbruck?

[Guest]

14 hours ago, Bobsk8 said:

I used PF3 for quite awhile with GA aircraft, now I am back to flying the Q400 and have moved back to Pro ATC X and it has been flawless so far after about 40 flights. I really like the stars and sids that you get every time when they are available at the airports. . I never liked the way stars and sids worked in PF3. 

 

+1

Just had a look at those PF3 video and BOY am I happy I went for ProATC! Setting up a flight is done in no time (for a basic flight: set departure, set destination, click a button and you're done) and I also love how it assigns SID and STAR (and transitions), depending on the current weather in the sim (even for saved plans!), at the appropriate time, and how you can enter them in the FMS realistically. It seems in PF3 you have to setup the SID and STAR yourself...? In all ATC programs I have seen it seems you have to set up almost everything, sometimes up to the smallest detail. Yes, I am very happy with ProATC.