Benjamin J

CPU coolers

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Dear all,

so far I have enjoyed some excellent advise on which CPU, graphics card as well as MOBO and RAM to get. This has led me to get an i5-8600k, a GTX1070 and a ASRock Z370 Taichi. Now, I’m back to inquire about a CPU cooler.

From my own research it appears the CM Hyper 212 is a very successful series with tons of loyal supporters, and so I’ve been tempted to get this inexpensive cooler. Now, the 8600k should be a giveaway that I’m intending to OC, and my research has also shown me that the Hyper 212 is usually slated to be good for stock clock CPU or mild OC. I would like to OC my 8600k to 4.4GHz at least, preferably 4.8GHz. Would the Hyper 212 be sufficient? I’d rather not spend a great deal more than the 20-30$ of the Hyper 212, but then I’m not going to compromise myself, having spent some 450$ on the CPU and MOBO, by getting greedy with the cooler. So, any advice and recommendation would be useful, though preferably I wouldn’t go over some 60$ if at all possible.

Thanks!

Benjamin

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I can vouch for the Corsair H100i v2.  It ran me about $100, a bit over your budget, but well worth it especially if you plan to OC.  See pic of my comp below on how I have it set up.  Sorry not the best pic.

 

FezP3bK.jpg

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11 hours ago, Benjamin J said:

Dear all,

so far I have enjoyed some excellent advise on which CPU, graphics card as well as MOBO and RAM to get. This has led me to get an i5-8600k, a GTX1070 and a ASRock Z370 Taichi. Now, I’m back to inquire about a CPU cooler.

From my own research it appears the CM Hyper 212 is a very successful series with tons of loyal supporters, and so I’ve been tempted to get this inexpensive cooler. Now, the 8600k should be a giveaway that I’m intending to OC, and my research has also shown me that the Hyper 212 is usually slated to be good for stock clock CPU or mild OC. I would like to OC my 8600k to 4.4GHz at least, preferably 4.8GHz. Would the Hyper 212 be sufficient? I’d rather not spend a great deal more than the 20-30$ of the Hyper 212, but then I’m not going to compromise myself, having spent some 450$ on the CPU and MOBO, by getting greedy with the cooler. So, any advice and recommendation would be useful, though preferably I wouldn’t go over some 60$ if at all possible.

Thanks!

Benjamin

 

 

Turbo for your 8600K is 4.3 GHz. That will be the max Turbo frequency on one core, the other cores will run at a lower frequency.

However...  if you switch on MCE (Multi Core Enhancement) or whatever it's called on non Asus boards, all cores will overclock to 4.3 GHz with an associated increase in voltage. That associated increase in voltage is a "guess" by the boards manufacturer that must take into account the small number of chips that need high voltage. So that's one option, simply switch on MCE, and then it's possible to opt for a cheaper cooler. 

If it's 4.8 GHz you are after then yes, you will clearly require a better cooling option.

My preference is Noctua. At present for my 8700K I use a Noctua NH-D15S. It's fitted with a black Chromax 150mm fan and Noctua black Chromax covers. Looks very nice indeed and without doubt the best air cooler on the market. 5 GHz is achievable. I have delidded.

I wouldn't recommend the Hyper 212 Evo. It's an old design, reasonable for stock clocks and a slight overclock but not really what you're looking for given your mention of clocks as high as 4.8.

Noctua's NH-U14S might be a cooler you would like. It's a full 19 degrees cooler than the Hyper 212 Evo!  It will handle just MCE on with ease and should handle higher overclocks. 

I would have to say though, if it's overclocks like 4.8 GHz you are interested in, on all cores, then I would opt for the D15S. I see it as unwise to go cheap on one of the most important aspects of an overclocked  rig.

An AIO closed loop cooler is an option. I recently opted for this approach with my daughters Mini ITX rig. But again, if it's 4.8 GHz you aspire to the cost will be high. Plus you have the possibility of leaks to think about, rare now but still happens. Pump noise, pump failure after a given number of years etc. An air cooler will last forever. 

AIO or air is down to your requirements, aesthetics, personal taste etc. something only you can decide.

The H100i V2 Dylan mentions above was the cooler I installed in my daughters PC. It's functioning well. The only thing she has mentioned is pump hum. Probably because the case is on her desk and resonating, and only a few feet from her ears. 

 

 

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Hey all, thanks for the insights so far. 100$ is a little over what I would want to spend at this time, but definitely I've heard good things about the Noctua and would certainly consider it. Thanks especially for mentioning the 15S, as I hadn't realized this smaller version with a single fan existed - I had always been looking at the older (?) version.

Martin, the comment son the OC itself are appreciated. I didn't realize the MCE would already attain the 4.3GHz by itself! It sounds like that might be a good thing tio start with, though I would indeed like to try and shoot for the 4,8GHz, so it sounds like the manual approach would be the way to go, paired with the Noctua 15S. How  exactly is the 15S different from the NH-U14S you mentioned? the latter is some 15$ cheaper - not a price difference to scoff about. I see the 15S has an extra set of fin blades, so I assume the 15S's cooling performance is likely better...?

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16 hours ago, Benjamin J said:

Hey all, thanks for the insights so far. 100$ is a little over what I would want to spend at this time, but definitely I've heard good things about the Noctua and would certainly consider it. Thanks especially for mentioning the 15S, as I hadn't realized this smaller version with a single fan existed - I had always been looking at the older (?) version.

Martin, the comment son the OC itself are appreciated. I didn't realize the MCE would already attain the 4.3GHz by itself! It sounds like that might be a good thing tio start with, though I would indeed like to try and shoot for the 4,8GHz, so it sounds like the manual approach would be the way to go, paired with the Noctua 15S. How  exactly is the 15S different from the NH-U14S you mentioned? the latter is some 15$ cheaper - not a price difference to scoff about. I see the 15S has an extra set of fin blades, so I assume the 15S's cooling performance is likely better...?

 

 

The NH-D15S isn't a smaller version. It's the high compatibility version of the NH-D15. It's the NH-U14S that's smaller and cheaper.

The NH-D15S has the same twin tower design, the same surface area. Yes, it has only one fan, but the difference between one fan and two is less than two degrees. The reason for that is that air velocity is the same with two fans, the only advantage is that there's a slight increase in static pressure, hence the 1-2 degrees drop in temp with one fan.

The NH-D15S is also an offset design, so that it's further away from the uppermost PCIe slot. In addition, it has better RAM clearance.

 

Quote

How  exactly is the 15S different from the NH-U14S you mentioned? the latter is some 15$ cheaper - not a price difference to scoff about. I see the 15S has an extra set of fin blades, so I assume the 15S's cooling performance is likely better...?

 

The NH-D15S, like the NH-D15 and like the older NH-D14... is a twin tower design, thus greater surface area. More surface area equates to better cooling. The NH-U14S has good compatibility, as indicated by the "S". It's a single tower design, so less surface area to dissipate heat.

All of the above coolers come with Noctua fans, which are famed for the quiet operation but respectable airflow.  In addition, the "quality" of the sound is good.

Regarding relative performance, look at the reviews.

 

https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/5434/noctua-nh-u14s-cpu-cooler-review/index8.html

https://www.tweaktown.com/reviews/7301/noctua-nh-d15s-style-cpu-cooler-review/index6.html

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/noctua_nh_d15s_cpu_cooler_review,8.html

https://www.anandtech.com/show/11407/140-mm-slim-tower-cpu-cooler-roundup/7

 

 

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Thanks Martin! Very useful explanation and links. From these tests it frankly doesn't seem like the U14S and D15S are all that different, providing very similar cooling performance, when looking at the resulting CPU temperature. I might opt for the cheaper NH-U14s, then. I'll sit on it a while longer before making a final decisison. Thanks for the recommendation!

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The U14S does amazingly well for a single tower cooler. But bear in mind that the reviews are at a relatively low overclock. At more extreme overclocks, like 4.8, 4.9, 5 GHz, the gap between it and the D15 grows.

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Hm... I had not considered that. Thanks for mentioning!

Bottom line: You're recommending me to get the D15S, to have that extra 'just-in-case' cooling headroom. Now, from what I read on Tweaktown, the OC they used was one of 4.5GHz, which to me, being the total OC novice that I am, doesn't sound that crazy far away from 4.8GHz... Though I see your point in the AnandTech review, where the jump from 60W to 340W comes with a 8C difference in cooling performance, the U14S being the hotter one, of course (Though those Wattages are completely theoretical to me. I have no real sense how this might apply to my situation). I should also point out that the test systems in the two TweakTown reviews are different and I'm unsure how this may skew the test results...

So, I'm trying to pair up my hypothetical scenario (4.8GHz OC'ed i5-8600k) with the figures above, and trying to figure out what kind of temperature difference I might be looking at in my rig, comparing the U14S and D15S. Given that it would save me some money, I'd love to conclude that the U14S is adequate, though it seems like I would be better served going with the D15S.

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You could look at some of the corsair single fan/radiator cooler combos that are under $100.  They don't have quite as much capacity as the H100i V2 (which I have) but can get you some nice liquid cooling at a reasonably affordable price.  I used to use big air coolers like the D15S, but they take up so much room in the middle of the case, and can potentially affect airflow through your case.  I went with the corsair option because the radiator mounted up on the top side of my case, out of the way of everything, and the hoses and CPU cooler do not take up that much room, plus with the 'i' versions you can get feedback from their app on how your cooler is performing (fan speed, cooler temp, etc.).

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10 hours ago, jlohrenz said:

You could look at some of the corsair single fan/radiator cooler combos that are under $100.  They don't have quite as much capacity as the H100i V2 (which I have) but can get you some nice liquid cooling at a reasonably affordable price.  

 

Except that they are a lot louder. And a lot less efficient. Surface area is a vital aspect of a coolers performance, whether it's a radiator or air cooler. 

 

10 hours ago, jlohrenz said:

I used to use big air coolers like the D15S, but they take up so much room in the middle of the case, and can potentially affect airflow through your case.

 

"Like the D15" you say. But NOT the D15... the NH-D15 has a centrally mounted 150mm fan that overlaps the heat sink. This is to allow a gust of air to pass across the motherboard and cool the VRM's and associated motherboard components. I once passed my hand behind the D15, the gust of air was very substantial. So no, the D15 does not at all compromise airflow through the case, on the contrary, the D15 improves motherboard component cooling.

 

But yes, it is a big cooler, so it's important for any one contemplating such a cooler to check their enclosure will allow it to fit. The dimensions are on the Noctua website. This is precisely why I opted for the Corsair H100i V2 for my daughters Mini ITX rig. There wasn't enough room for a big tower air cooler.

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10 hours ago, Benjamin J said:

Hm... I had not considered that. Thanks for mentioning!

Bottom line: You're recommending me to get the D15S, to have that extra 'just-in-case' cooling headroom.

 

Nope, not at all. If you would like to save some cash, then I have no issue with you opting for the NH-U14S. Your CPU has no hyper-threading, so will be 10 degrees cooler as a result. And 4.8 GHz isn't a huge overclock for the 8600K. As I mentioned, no "user" overclock, just MCE switched on in the BIOS will give you all cores at 4.7. Technically Intel Turbo is an overclock, and MCE is max turbo frequency on all cores, but it's not a huge overclock. As for the CPU temperature it will generate with the 8600K I cant tell you precisely, I have seen no reviews with this CPU and cooler, but I could take a wild guess at maybe 70 - 75 degrees running RealBench. Which is about the level I like to be when overclocking and running a stress test. TJ Max is 100 degrees. This is dependant on my guesswork, the silicone lottery, your ambient temp etc. I could be wrong! 

 

Personally. if it were me, I would opt for the D15S every time, because I believe it to be the best air cooler on the planet, but that's your decision if you want to do that not mine.  Your case would need to be big enough and your RAM not ultra tall. 

 

Quote

 the OC they used was one of 4.5GHz, which to me, being the total OC novice that I am, doesn't sound that crazy far away from 4.8GHz

 

But now consider how hotter the CPU will be when pushed from 4.5 to 4.8. Less efficient coolers struggle as the thermal load increases. How much the gap would widen between the NH-U14 and D15 as the clocks increase... I cant tell you, but I believe there would be a difference. 

 

Quote

So, I'm trying to pair up my hypothetical scenario (4.8GHz OC'ed i5-8600k) with the figures above, and trying to figure out what kind of temperature difference I might be looking at in my rig, comparing the U14S and D15S.

 

The NH-U14S will be approximately 5 degrees warmer than the NH-D15S. That's at a very moderate overclock. At 4.8 GHz with the 8600K, I would estimate more like 7 degrees warmer. 

However... if you add a second fan to the NH-U14S, you can knock another two to three degrees off that.  

There's also delidding to contemplate. If you don't mind compromising your CPU warranty and delidding, then you can drop the temp of the CPU drastically. My 8700K dropped by about 12 degrees with delidding. My duaghters 8600k dropped by 17 degrees.

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Thanks once again for the wealth of info!

I did some digging on MCE. The overall consensus seems to be that a manual OC is preferable as you have more control over the voltage, and thus the heat and subsequent temperature increases. What's your opinion on that? Anywho, given that you're all telling me that 4.8GHz is not a 'huge' OC, and I could (maybe?) go higher (5GHz?), it sounds like I should be perfectly able to do this myself.

7 degrees is actually quite a big difference... Perhaps I would be better served going with the DH15S, just to give myself some future headroom. By all means, I'm trying to invest in the future rather than in the present. And given that I'm already spending 1500$, what difference does another 15$ make... (which, frankly, is how this rig ended up going from 1300$ to 1500$. Several small increases end up making a big one, haha! And that's not incorporating the likely 200-300$ investment in scenery and aircraft upgrades for P3Dv4...)

For the case I picked the Fractal Design Focus G (not purchased yet though), which I think accommodates CPU coolers up to 165mm. So should be okay... The RAM is just standard I think, being of the Vengeance LPX variety.

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I did some digging on MCE. The overall consensus seems to be that a manual OC is preferable as you have more control over the voltage, and thus the heat and subsequent temperature increases. What's your opinion on that?

 

MCE has caught people out who have sub standard cooling, for that reason. 

The board manufacturer doesn't know if you have an awesome CPU, a silicon lottery winner, or a CPU that is at the bottom of the overclocking pile. So the auto rules must apply a greater voltage to accommodate the less capable chips. So yes, voltage will be higher and that means more heat. It's not huge though and within the NH-U14S's capabilities to handle I would say.  

When I tried MCE on with my 8700K, the temp wasn't a big deal for me with a D15. And in fact, there would be nothing stopping you from tweaking the MCE auto rules voltage down  until you reach your CPU's minimum voltage. 

Alternatively, manually overclocking as you say. It's a case of trying it and seeing how you get on.

 

Quote

 Perhaps I would be better served going with the DH15S, just to give myself some future headroom.

 

Dimensions are here...

https://noctua.at/en/products/cpu-cooler-retail/nh-d15s/specification

And the NH-U14S...

https://noctua.at/en/products/cpu-cooler-retail/nh-u14s/specification

 

I take it you don't fancy an All In One water cooler?  That's something you need to decide, how you feel about AIO's. More expensive of course. I favour air, but that's your decision. 

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