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Manny

Good Cessna 150 or 172 FS 9 model to practice in for pilot in training

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Personally, I would go for the PPL first. The PPL AND Instrument ratings will be cheaper than a good home cockpit, and the home cockpit industry is in its infancy and growing. You don't need a home cockpit to practice on an LDS 767 or any other MS airplane, and there is NOTHING like flying for real. GO FOR IT ALL! :-) By the time you are ready to go commercial, the cycle should have swung the other way, the Iraq war should be settled, and the airlines and everybody else will be looking for pilots again.Thomas[a href=http://www.flyingscool.com] http://www.flyingscool.com/images/Signature.jpg [/a]I like using VC's


Tom Perry

 

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Guest byoung

I just looked on the internet for PPL training. One example mentioned 8,995 for the PPL and maybe some introductory instrument training. 9K can buy a lot of home cockpit. Again, let me reiterate. If the objective is to become a commercial pilot than real world training is a must. But if one is just learing to fly for the fun of it and a hobby, then a home cockpit is the better way to go in my opinion. Let me also say that there is NO substitute for real world training. It is by far the best. But from purley economics, I feel a home cockpit is also a good investment. You have no assets with flight training, (except for logging time working toward a commercial certification). If you get tired of flying, you can sell your home cockpit, as parts or as a bundle.Cheers!Barry

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Hi Barry,Where do you live?Here in the states, flying is still very affordable. I pay $30/hour for the 1973 Piper Cherokee 180 I own a quarter share in ($7500 8 years ago). Insurance is about $350/year and I spend between $500 and $1200/year in maintenance costs. It's got Dual VOR/glideslope, ADF, and LORAN. It's a wonderful family plane that easily carries 4 adults.A decent boat would typically cost more than this to run.The nice thing as well is here in the northeast there are plenty of places to fly that are less than 2 hours flying time. I spend a lot of time flying to the Cape and Nantucket and the upper Maine coast, as well as locations in NY.Anyway, point is, flying can be quite affordable if you want to. I do understand, however, that the situation is not the same elsewhere in the world.Thomas[a href=http://www.flyingscool.com] http://www.flyingscool.com/images/Signature.jpg [/a]I like using VC's :-)


Tom Perry

 

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>Again, let me reiterate. If the objective is to become a>commercial pilot than real world training is a must. But if>one is just learning to fly for the fun of it and a hobby, then>a home cockpit is the better way to go in my opinion. >IMO, there is certainly a lot more to real flight, than just becoming a commercial pilot. Just out my back door, we have some of the best scenic wonders in the world, including numerous national parks, Lake Powell, the Grand Canyon, and plenty of rugged mountains and deserts. All these areas are panoramic vistas beyond comprehension when viewed from lower altitudes in a small aircraft.Flight as I've described has nothing to do with commercial flights, or IFR and IMC. It's just FUN!Since I am a "eye candy" type person when it comes to simming, I'm always happier to see the eye candy scenery improve each year; but it will never replace the real thing.L.Adamson

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>IMO, there is certainly a lot more to real flight, than just>becoming a commercial pilot. Couldn't agree more. Any career being a pilot for me is up in the air at the moment. I'm wrestling with the UK CAA at the moment about my eye sight (no idea why in this day and age the restrictions are.. so strict). Which theoretically wipes me out of getting a class 1 medical and only just scrapes me a class 2 (recreational flying) with a confirmation letter. I'm trying to figure out how flexible they are in regards to proving how competent you are. There is some hope.. I think. I really wanted to go in to air taxi flying possibly air ambulance, as well as maybe being an instructor. With all this at the moment I'm aiming for the UKs "NPPL" which is very relaxed on requirements.. and seeing where I can go from there.In short, flying is a blast regardless of how far you can go. I've already come to terms with the possibility of not having a career in aviation but still have huge amounts of fun chugging around in a little Tomahawk :) Just seeing stuff from the air.. communicating with ATC, flying the circuit and pulling off that "greaser" is some of the most fun I've ever had.


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Guest byoung

I have to agree with you all when you look at it from that perspective. Especially L Adamson and looking out at lake Powell. Yep, the real thing is better. But if you can't afford to fly for real, flight simulation is a welcome sight and has opened up doors for me, keeping in the know as far as aviation.I have to agree, nothing beats the real thing, either commercial or recreational. But there are things that you can do in simulation that you may not get an opportunity to do in real life. That is the point I will conclude with.A home cockpit raises the emersion level, and comes in second, but still raises the level of enjoyment and realism. And with motion and scenery developments progress made, force feedback development, who knows what the future will bring.Thanks for the comments!Cheers!Barry

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Guest Knikolaes

And to add to Thomas' reply about flying expenses -- learning to fly here in the states is cheap as well.My school - Pueblo Community College - just started an Aviation Technology Program. because I am doing so well on my grades, scholarships and grants are starting to come in (if you succeed, you WILL be rewarded in college). This semester (Fall 2006) I am getting at LEAST $6,700. I WOULD get $8,700 already, but I turned down the $2,000 work study option in leiu of a full-time job with benefits that I already have. That 6,700 is for grants and the Stafford Loan alone -- I have not even applied for any scholarships . . . yet. And according to my current award letter I am getting the same amount next semester.The breakdown? Per rating -- all the way from Private to Commercial -- you spend MAYBE 3,000 to 4,000 per rating. The way my school is doing it is you get 1 rating per semester. So if I can keep my grades up -- easy enough to do -- I will have financial aid dump possibly about 600 of that to cover the tuition (13 credit hours), then when i get my cash back in disbursement, I will buy 3,000 worth the hours in a block advance from my FBO. That leaves me 3,100 left over to buy supplies and have handy in case my learning curve takes more than the 3,000 worth the hours.So if you play your cards right, and use professional education to your advantage, then learning to fly is not only attanable, but VERY affordable. That Stafford loan i will not have to pay a DIME on until 6 months after I graduate (or drop out - which will NOT happen). All the money from my current full time job as a result goes to my mortgage and utilities, and even at that I took in a couple of roommates (quirk of being single) to help with house expenses, which gives me even MORE from my job checks to spend on flying.That and i am also earning a degree in ym flying aside from having all of the necessary training to be a great pilot. Even if one chooses not to pursue a CAREER as a commercial Pilot, the training still makes for a much more proficient and knowledgable private pilot. So if you have an education institute near you that can provide similar training, and you can qualify for government aid, jump on it :-)I am also acting as a pilot mentor (after I get my Fall semester finished I'll also be singing on with AOPA's Project Pilot for the same thing), helping others learn to fly, so if you or anyoen else here needs information on PCC's program, feel free to ask.With schools, though, and choosing them -- there are two very high priority things to consider -- living arrangements and expenses. PCC is a comm7unity college, so expenses are a LOT easier than a "specialized flying school" or university (I still plan to attend a university, but only in my last two years, not all 4). As for the living situation, that is where the drawback of a community college comes into play -- living situation -- no dorms. However if you look around, my toen for example has VERY VERY cheap rent compared to most areas in the US. Heck i am BUYING a 4-bedroom house here and paying 650/Month in mortgage, where most people in the US nowdays pay around 1,000 for a 1-bedroom apartment. So when considering these things, look around and sample EVERYTHING, including living arrangements, take advantage of the tuition and government assistance, and enjoy learning how to fly :-)Also for going to college it is easy to search the paper for "crash pad rentals", like mine. My upstairs loft is a crash pad for PCC students to help out with expenses around here :-) Find the right situation and everybody wins :-)Hope this helps. Sorry I typed a book here it seems, but I don't believe the wallet should ever stop someone from learning to fly. I will be honest when I say this -- I have spent MORE on flight simulation than on college so far - because of government assistance, scholarships and grants (all money I do not have to pay back). Stafford Loan that I have to pay back after college so far - 1,600. Total amount of Flight Simulation Software sitting here on my desk (and this is with NO home-built cockpit) - 2,500 estimated.

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Guest Knikolaes

>I just looked on the internet for PPL training. One example>mentioned 8,995 for the PPL and maybe some introductory>instrument training. 9K can buy a lot of home cockpit. >>Again, let me reiterate. If the objective is to become a>commercial pilot than real world training is a must. But if>one is just learing to fly for the fun of it and a hobby, then>a home cockpit is the better way to go in my opinion. >>Let me also say that there is NO substitute for real world>training. It is by far the best. But from purley economics,>I feel a home cockpit is also a good investment. You have no>assets with flight training, (except for logging time working>toward a commercial certification). If you get tired of>flying, you can sell your home cockpit, as parts or as a>bundle.>>Cheers!>>Barry >>My word!!!! What country is this in??? I know those prices can NOT be in US Dollars! If yer paying over 8,000 for PPL or Instrument (individually) then that's nuts. Even the accelerated shools here do not charge that much.

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Guest byoung

Well it said that it included 85 (105 per hour) hours of training. I have been out of touch from rentals and instructor fees for over 20 years. I am not sure what a reasonable price would be.I would take it in an accellerated method because I did the other way and it took way too long to get my license.I thought it was on the high side as well. I had a friend awhile back looking into starting from ground zero and getting CRJ class certified and I think the training was about 50K for 6-9 months of training (much of that training, simulator), but I think it included housing. So it aint cheap, thats for sure. Maybe not a bad investment. They had arrangements with some airlines to place you when you completed it.I use to work for a well known flight school as they were expanding into PC training at the time, and their rates were 75 - 85 hr, that included 172 rental wet and instructor, and head sets in the planes which was really nice. That was 1986 - 87. Today's web site I visitied averages about 105 an hour. With the fuel at today's prices, may not be too far off.And remember this is VERY VERY basic training in a trainer type A/C. That is why the home cockpit is really appealing to me and has a case!Cheers!Barry

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Guest Knikolaes

Ah okay.Aye the deal the FBO is working out with my college is that NORMAL training PRIVATELY cost about 4k to get a certification, but the FBO is knocking 10/hour off for PCC students and handling distribution of the training kit (ground school bag -- I **think** they are using the Private Pilot kit from Sporty's) and such.I like this program because it is NOT accelerated, BUT it is steady -- so it is a halfway point. Delta Connection Academy, for example, can get you ATP certified from ground zero in 19 months, however you will be paying VERY dearly because there are NO grants or scholarships for that kind of school, because it is not a degree program -- only certification, and while private loans are available, you'd be paying the ENTIRE cost back eventually, whereas grants and scholarships you do not.Learning to fly in your free time has that same financial drawback, plus adding in that it does take a long time to do because you are not on a schedule, so if motivation dies, or you start having financial issues to direct your money elsewhere, it does tend to kill off the progress of flight.College, however, meets halfway AND has financial benefits of government assistance, grants, scholarships and a schedule that keeps you on track AND gets you a degree at the same time.I am using mine two-fold -- double major. My primary major is Aviation Technology. Minor is Visual Communications. I am going to use both to do aerial photofgraphy as an added income no matter where my career takes me :-)I do have to add that if you do go professional in flight - ALWAYS get that second dwegree that is NON aviation related. Airlines will actually hire someone that has a non aviation-related degree added to their resume faster than others, because it shows that you plan ahead and have a fall-back in life -- a responsible candidate for hiring (this comes from seminars I went to when I was a flight attendant, and the same rules applied for my working as a Flight Attendant).Off topic just a tad -- do you have a link or web site where you have your home cockpit displayed? I have been interested in building one and love reading sites where others show theirs :-)Back on topic -- as with the others above, the Flight1 152 and 172 are WONDERFUL trainers. The ONLY thing I do not like about the 172 is the eyepoint seems odd. It looks nothing like the 172 I ride in. The eyepoint is right compared to how you see over the panel, but you have to SHIFT+BACKSPACE to lower the seat to see out the sides to check for traffic. In the real 172, I do not have to lower my head at all to see the wingtips **shrugs** However if you lower the eyepoint to see the wingtips accordingly, then you cannot see accurately over the panel. Other than the tunnel-vision issue there, I think she is a VERY nice add-on to train with. :-)

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The sim is good for students to use as a procedural trainer. It will not act like a real plane or feel like a real plane, but it is good to review checklist procedures, ADF and VOR tracking, things like that. Best of luck to her. Don

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>>The nice thing as well is here in the northeast there are>plenty of places to fly that are less than 2 hours flying>time. I spend a lot of time flying to the Cape and Nantucket>and the upper Maine coast, as well as locations in NY.>Interesting, Thomas. I just got back from a trip today (Danbury CT - Montauk NY). Tons of fun on the beach and cheap lobsters. Maybe I'll run into you someday (on the parking ramp that is). :)Jason


Jason

FAA CPL SEL MEL IR CFI-I MEI AGI

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I'd have to agree with L. Adamson. As long as you are aware of the limitations of the sim versus the real world, it can be a helpful tool with the PPL course for things such as situation awareness, patterns, and proceedures. I know there's chair flying, but if you're like me where everything always goes perfectly in your mind when chair flying then falls to crap in the plane, the sim can help with that as it forces you to keep ahead of the aircraft. I've actually practiced S-turns and turns-around-a-point in the sim with some success.----------------------------------------------------------------John MorganReal World: KGEG, UND Aerospace Spokane Satillite, Private ASEL 141.2 hrs, 314 landings, 46 inst. apprs.Virtual: MSFS 2004"There is a feeling about an airport that no other piece of ground can have. No matter what the name of the country on whose land it lies, an airport is a place you can see and touch that leads to a reality that can only be thought and felt." - The Bridge Across Forever: A Love Story by Richard Bach


John Morgan

 

"There is a feeling about an airport that no other piece of ground can have. No matter what the name of the country on whose land it lies, an airport is a place you can see and touch that leads to a reality that can only be thought and felt." - The Bridge Across Forever: A Love Story by Richard Bach

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