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SkunkCrafts Mustang P-51D

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Together with the MDLAG 109s, and with the upcoming, eagerly awaited, 11.30 FDM / Physics update, these warbird has finally put me away from useless combat sims, where I have been spending a lot of time playing air combat games :-)

A true MUST HAVE !

Attention to detail in terms of flight dynamics and systems modelling is promising to say the least !

Softfield ground physics in X-Plane are actually 2nd to none IMHO, comparing for instance with DCS World and IL2 Great Battles. It makes a whole lot of a difference from operating from paved runways, which I find that probably still need some fine tuning.

This P51d has great graphics, sounds, physics, and has a $12 discount for users of the previous Khamsin version !

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18 hours ago, Von Target said:

Together with the MDLAG 109s, and with the upcoming, eagerly awaited, 11.30 FDM / Physics update, these warbird has finally put me away from useless combat sims, where I have been spending a lot of time playing air combat games 🙂

Is it that good? Nice flight model? Prop effects? Ground handling? 🙂

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Posted (edited)

Murmur,

after all these years you've certainly learned to read my words with a "filter" 🙂

But emotional reactions apart, I find it indeed very good.  Why ?

.) In X-Plane and even with the present limitations imposed by the ground physics, I find the representation of tail surface effectiveness ( or lack of ) at taxi speeds and power settings very well done, actually ahead of the feel in DCS specially when you operate from grass or soil instead of paved rws... The aircraft, both the P51d and the MDLAG 109s are good examples of this, and the authors of this P51d have been really carefull with the modelling of the tailwheel mechanisms of 6 degree deflection each side when the stick is pulled back, as oposed to free castering when pushed or neutral... In IL-2 Battle of, I always find the effectiveness of the tail, particularly the rudder too high at such low power settings and speeds. Rudder is too effective. In DCS the aircraft ( ww2 ) all feel "too loose" on ground, too light, sensitive, while we have a nice feel of inertia in this X-Plane 11 model.

.) I find the flight dynamics in as far as prop effects go very plausible, and, for instance, I do not find what I consider an overdone modeling of P-Factor in the low speed / high power / high AoA regimes, like I do in the DCS P51d. Of course I still prefer over all other sims the "feel of flight" provided by IL-2, but this X-Plane P51d ( we still do not have the P51d in IL-2 ) is very plausible and appears to adhere to the many texts on it's flight characteristics.  There being a problem with the feedback provided by the "ball" in the turn coordinator, I have to use Data Output to measure sideslip and that's not too practical, but appears to be plausible - I look forward fro some fine tuning of the ball... Another feature/aspect I tried last night with a bit more of attention was the neutral pitch stability, under a wide range of CoGs, when stick pulled ... The DCS does model this very plausibly, while I found the X-Plane model starts the normal phugoid... ALso tried the effects of a fully loaded center / fuselage tank, and I missed the details / feedback I get in the DCS P51d 😞

.) Stall characteristics are pretty much like in DCS.

.) Compressibility effects appear to fail to be modeled though, the same applying to stick forces, although I do see entries in the "Phase-Out" section of the flight controls in Plane Maker...

 

Edited by Von Target
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I don’t think you understood Murmur. I think he was asking with genuine interest whether the 109 is as good as the P-51 in the specific respects he mentions as a guide to whether he should perhaps buy it.   

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5 hours ago, Griphos said:

I don’t think you understood Murmur. I think he was asking with genuine interest whether the 109 is as good as the P-51 in the specific respects he mentions as a guide to whether he should perhaps buy it.   

Well my question was poorly phrased, but I was indeed asking Jose his opinion on the flight model of this P51. We are flight model weirdos. 🙂

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Griphos said:

I don’t think you understood Murmur. I think he was asking with genuine interest whether the 109 is as good as the P-51 in the specific respects he mentions as a guide to whether he should perhaps buy it.   

Yes, l understood ir as referring to the P51d 😁

I've "tweaked" the original model by setting the Vert Stab 1 & 2 incidence to ( -1.0 ) as suggested by the P51d books, which show they used a vertical fin canted 1,0 º to portside.

So far I like the results.

 

Edited by Von Target

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Well,

after the vertical fin, I also made the Horizontal Stab agree with the documentation, and it's now set at -2.0º as per the books 🙂

Feels ok in the model.

I had to drop that SkunkCrafts updater though because otherwise it would revert to the default values each time I started XP11.

And...btw,  this aircraft is giving me GREAT TIME ! it's been a long time since I've actually felt so enthusiastic with an X-Plane aircraft add-on.

Edited by Von Target
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I ave the MDLAG 109 and really like it , but now i have been transferred to helicopters.

I think the pitch stability in the 109 (MDLAG) is fine not that i remember as it's been a while since i took her up.

 

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Hey Humpty,

I like the 109s too, from the F4 to the G10, although I haver disabled in Plane-Maker that activation of the Slats with the Flap deployment.

I would say that together with this P51d, they're the only prop aircraft I use in XP11. The other are the X-Trident Bell 412 and the Toliss and FF airbuses - that's about all my fleet in XP11, and more than enough ....

But back to the P51d, it's really a must have in X-Plane. Of course I couldn't avoid comparing the handling to the DCS p51d, and while we do not still have one in IL-2 Battle of... there's one comming too... but so far I admire the level of detail in some of teh systems modeling, the sounds, and the flight characteristics.

Wonder how the upcoming modificatyions to the FDM will add to it. Austin is in the right track for sure, although introducing fuselage pressure distribution should initiate a new cycle of tuning until we reach a new stability state :-)  

 

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Captain Von, 

 I am sure the XP FDM engine will improve , what i feel is non of the sims have a great internal FDM engine or are limited to a particular type of aircraft like the ww2 props of il2 for e..g.

Things might just get better or worse with 11.30 let's wait and see.

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I have not yet seen any 3rd party repaints for this aircraft.

Did you?

When a new model comes available lots of licences are being sold in a short time.
Then the availability of interesting repaints for the model will be vital for the commercial success in the end.
Lets hope painters will pick it up and give the community lots of interesting liveries.
I`ll wait for the liveries before buying the model.

For the previous Mustang by Khamsin many, many excellent liveries were available.
Its a pity those paintworks are not compatible with the new version by Skunkcrafts.
As repainting the new model seems to be much more complicated  due to the method the excellent original paints were processed with  and a real paintkit not being provided by Skunkcrafts , I wonder how many repaints for this model can be expected. 
For me a model is only succesfull when the community can make their choise out of a wide range of liveries.

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18 minutes ago, Leen3131cs said:

When a new model comes available lots of licences are being sold in a short time.

Then the availability of interesting repaints for the model will be vital for the commercial success in the end.
Lets hope painters will pick it up and give the community lots of interesting liveries.
I`ll wait for the liveries before buying the model.
 

From a painter's perspective that might be true. For me, the availability of repaints is of no significance for making the decison to buy the addon or not, and in my experience people are looking at other things first (3D model, systems, flight model etc.).

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Ohh yes it depends on the eyes you are looking with.
Nevertheless its a fact the availability of (quality) repaints has a big influence on the sales of a model.

Some years ago I started making a series of livery -paints for a model wich was already on the market for quiet some time.
The developer/vendor was very pleased with my works and he told me the sales made a restart.

This restart of sales was not the result of my paints being so superb ( I am not the only experienced painter , many can do the same job and better) .
No, the simple fact repaints are being published, brings the focus of the public back to the model.( not only the focus of those who are interested in repaints ) 
When there are hardly (or none) repaints, the model  lacks a lot of (free) publicity.

I have several models in my collection I would not have purchased when their liveries had not been published.

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