jt8d9a

SkunkCrafts Mustang P-51D

Recommended Posts

Help AVSIM continue to serve you!
Please donate today!

Together with the MDLAG 109s, and with the upcoming, eagerly awaited, 11.30 FDM / Physics update, these warbird has finally put me away from useless combat sims, where I have been spending a lot of time playing air combat games :-)

A true MUST HAVE !

Attention to detail in terms of flight dynamics and systems modelling is promising to say the least !

Softfield ground physics in X-Plane are actually 2nd to none IMHO, comparing for instance with DCS World and IL2 Great Battles. It makes a whole lot of a difference from operating from paved runways, which I find that probably still need some fine tuning.

This P51d has great graphics, sounds, physics, and has a $12 discount for users of the previous Khamsin version !

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, Von Target said:

Together with the MDLAG 109s, and with the upcoming, eagerly awaited, 11.30 FDM / Physics update, these warbird has finally put me away from useless combat sims, where I have been spending a lot of time playing air combat games 🙂

Is it that good? Nice flight model? Prop effects? Ground handling? 🙂

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

Murmur,

after all these years you've certainly learned to read my words with a "filter" 🙂

But emotional reactions apart, I find it indeed very good.  Why ?

.) In X-Plane and even with the present limitations imposed by the ground physics, I find the representation of tail surface effectiveness ( or lack of ) at taxi speeds and power settings very well done, actually ahead of the feel in DCS specially when you operate from grass or soil instead of paved rws... The aircraft, both the P51d and the MDLAG 109s are good examples of this, and the authors of this P51d have been really carefull with the modelling of the tailwheel mechanisms of 6 degree deflection each side when the stick is pulled back, as oposed to free castering when pushed or neutral... In IL-2 Battle of, I always find the effectiveness of the tail, particularly the rudder too high at such low power settings and speeds. Rudder is too effective. In DCS the aircraft ( ww2 ) all feel "too loose" on ground, too light, sensitive, while we have a nice feel of inertia in this X-Plane 11 model.

.) I find the flight dynamics in as far as prop effects go very plausible, and, for instance, I do not find what I consider an overdone modeling of P-Factor in the low speed / high power / high AoA regimes, like I do in the DCS P51d. Of course I still prefer over all other sims the "feel of flight" provided by IL-2, but this X-Plane P51d ( we still do not have the P51d in IL-2 ) is very plausible and appears to adhere to the many texts on it's flight characteristics.  There being a problem with the feedback provided by the "ball" in the turn coordinator, I have to use Data Output to measure sideslip and that's not too practical, but appears to be plausible - I look forward fro some fine tuning of the ball... Another feature/aspect I tried last night with a bit more of attention was the neutral pitch stability, under a wide range of CoGs, when stick pulled ... The DCS does model this very plausibly, while I found the X-Plane model starts the normal phugoid... ALso tried the effects of a fully loaded center / fuselage tank, and I missed the details / feedback I get in the DCS P51d 😞

.) Stall characteristics are pretty much like in DCS.

.) Compressibility effects appear to fail to be modeled though, the same applying to stick forces, although I do see entries in the "Phase-Out" section of the flight controls in Plane Maker...

 

Edited by Von Target
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don’t think you understood Murmur. I think he was asking with genuine interest whether the 109 is as good as the P-51 in the specific respects he mentions as a guide to whether he should perhaps buy it.   

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, Griphos said:

I don’t think you understood Murmur. I think he was asking with genuine interest whether the 109 is as good as the P-51 in the specific respects he mentions as a guide to whether he should perhaps buy it.   

Well my question was poorly phrased, but I was indeed asking Jose his opinion on the flight model of this P51. We are flight model weirdos. 🙂

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, Griphos said:

I don’t think you understood Murmur. I think he was asking with genuine interest whether the 109 is as good as the P-51 in the specific respects he mentions as a guide to whether he should perhaps buy it.   

Yes, l understood ir as referring to the P51d 😁

I've "tweaked" the original model by setting the Vert Stab 1 & 2 incidence to ( -1.0 ) as suggested by the P51d books, which show they used a vertical fin canted 1,0 º to portside.

So far I like the results.

 

Edited by Von Target

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well,

after the vertical fin, I also made the Horizontal Stab agree with the documentation, and it's now set at -2.0º as per the books 🙂

Feels ok in the model.

I had to drop that SkunkCrafts updater though because otherwise it would revert to the default values each time I started XP11.

And...btw,  this aircraft is giving me GREAT TIME ! it's been a long time since I've actually felt so enthusiastic with an X-Plane aircraft add-on.

Edited by Von Target
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I ave the MDLAG 109 and really like it , but now i have been transferred to helicopters.

I think the pitch stability in the 109 (MDLAG) is fine not that i remember as it's been a while since i took her up.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Humpty,

I like the 109s too, from the F4 to the G10, although I haver disabled in Plane-Maker that activation of the Slats with the Flap deployment.

I would say that together with this P51d, they're the only prop aircraft I use in XP11. The other are the X-Trident Bell 412 and the Toliss and FF airbuses - that's about all my fleet in XP11, and more than enough ....

But back to the P51d, it's really a must have in X-Plane. Of course I couldn't avoid comparing the handling to the DCS p51d, and while we do not still have one in IL-2 Battle of... there's one comming too... but so far I admire the level of detail in some of teh systems modeling, the sounds, and the flight characteristics.

Wonder how the upcoming modificatyions to the FDM will add to it. Austin is in the right track for sure, although introducing fuselage pressure distribution should initiate a new cycle of tuning until we reach a new stability state :-)  

 

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Captain Von, 

 I am sure the XP FDM engine will improve , what i feel is non of the sims have a great internal FDM engine or are limited to a particular type of aircraft like the ww2 props of il2 for e..g.

Things might just get better or worse with 11.30 let's wait and see.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have not yet seen any 3rd party repaints for this aircraft.

Did you?

When a new model comes available lots of licences are being sold in a short time.
Then the availability of interesting repaints for the model will be vital for the commercial success in the end.
Lets hope painters will pick it up and give the community lots of interesting liveries.
I`ll wait for the liveries before buying the model.

For the previous Mustang by Khamsin many, many excellent liveries were available.
Its a pity those paintworks are not compatible with the new version by Skunkcrafts.
As repainting the new model seems to be much more complicated  due to the method the excellent original paints were processed with  and a real paintkit not being provided by Skunkcrafts , I wonder how many repaints for this model can be expected. 
For me a model is only succesfull when the community can make their choise out of a wide range of liveries.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 minutes ago, Leen3131cs said:

When a new model comes available lots of licences are being sold in a short time.

Then the availability of interesting repaints for the model will be vital for the commercial success in the end.
Lets hope painters will pick it up and give the community lots of interesting liveries.
I`ll wait for the liveries before buying the model.
 

From a painter's perspective that might be true. For me, the availability of repaints is of no significance for making the decison to buy the addon or not, and in my experience people are looking at other things first (3D model, systems, flight model etc.).

  • Like 1
  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ohh yes it depends on the eyes you are looking with.
Nevertheless its a fact the availability of (quality) repaints has a big influence on the sales of a model.

Some years ago I started making a series of livery -paints for a model wich was already on the market for quiet some time.
The developer/vendor was very pleased with my works and he told me the sales made a restart.

This restart of sales was not the result of my paints being so superb ( I am not the only experienced painter , many can do the same job and better) .
No, the simple fact repaints are being published, brings the focus of the public back to the model.( not only the focus of those who are interested in repaints ) 
When there are hardly (or none) repaints, the model  lacks a lot of (free) publicity.

I have several models in my collection I would not have purchased when their liveries had not been published.

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Leen3131cs said:

As repainting the new model seems to be much more complicated  due to the method the excellent original paints were processed with  and a real paintkit not being provided by Skunkcrafts , I wonder how many repaints for this model can be expected. 

 I was wrong here.


I was told the default liveries are texturised using a program like  Substance-Painter, all textures have their own texture dedicated full PBR normals and painting that way is not possible for painters due to the fact they cannot load the plane in such a program.


Texturising this model ( the traditional way) is very well possible but achieving the same high level of  PBR quality as the default ones is almost impossible for most painters.

What I wrote was based on information I got about the texturing some months ago.
I even got the impression repaints were not really on the wishlist.

I downloaded the repaint ( wich is excellent)  and studied the texturefiles and their normals.
The texturising is well mapped over two 4K files and dito normals.
The Definition of the textures is approx  415 pixels per meter wich is not very high but certainly enough for good paints.


 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Leen3131cs said:

Ohh yes it depends on the eyes you are looking with.
Nevertheless its a fact the availability of (quality) repaints has a big influence on the sales of a model.

Your anecdote is not really evidence of your claim, of which I am deeply skeptical. I doubt it’s “a fact” that the availability of reprints has a “big influence” on sales of most models.  Perhaps an older model that doesn’t have much appeal otherwise might see an uptick in sales with the release of an interesting livery for a subset of the public. I seriously doubt a first class release like A2A warbirds see any real change in sales due to a paint becoming available. At any rate, given the excellent quality of this new aircraft, and the several classic liveries provided, I doubt sales will suffer in the least from the difficulty of repainting it. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I can make my point of view more clear in a few single lines.

More liveries published is  = more exposure of the model.
More liveries lead to publishing of more screenhots at screenshot-fora = more exposure of the model

The better the exposure , the better the sales will be. No matter we are talking about a sim aircraft, sigarettes, beer, cars whatever.

 

BTW
I purchased the plane some hours ago and I must say its a real good product.
But also this time, the painter being in a hurry to publish the plane, some liveries look not as good as they could with the same effort.
Most default liveries have a nasty white/blueish line  running over the nose of the aircraft, ( seen under various angles)  simply forgotten parts on the texture.
This really messes up the nose.
No problem to correct for a painter.I did them all in five minutes.
 

line.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hopefully, someone will paint some air racing liveries?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think we can expect a lot liveries the moment a paintkit is available.
By default only a bare metal livery with black text on it is all there is for the painters to play with.
A painter runs into trouble the moment he wants to make a dark colored livery with white text.

A paintkit ( un-official ) is in the making.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

UN-OFFICIAL PAINTKIT for the Skunkcrafts P51 by Leen De Jager

When I was making a full bare-metal version of the P51 , with a bare spinner and no red parts, I stumbled into making kinda paint-kit for myself.
Not a sophisticated real paintkit, just a dabblers paintkit based on the default (paintable) silver livery.
I wanted to have the possibility of making my own exhaust-dirt .
For modern painted (Reno and demo) Mustangs I needed white text on the fuselage instead of black.

Now painting can start and I just could start right away.
It would be great to have MANY paints for this FANTASTIC plane (thanks Skunkcrafts) and therefore I choosed to share my silver bird and I include my layerfiles.

UNZIP LDJ-P51-paintkit-1 and  LDJ-P51-paintkit-2 to your liveries folder.
You can fly the silver bird instantly and start painting the same time. (MANUAL enclosed)

Lets grab our brushes and start.



Just Google it

  • Upvote 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

stage10.png

 

 

stage11.png

 

My first  livery for this model, using my own paintkit.

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now