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shamrockflyer

Nitpicking...

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31 minutes ago, Pablo Vazquez said:

OMG... I truly don’t understand WHY this is so important??... GEEZ... Enough!!! 

Then don't bother wasting your time commenting or even looking at this post and move on......

 

 

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2 hours ago, Captain Kevin said:

Not everyone has access to a 747-8 at their local airport because the 747-8 doesn't fly to every single airport that's out there. That said, in his case, it happens to fly there, and as noted by the following:

So not really sure where you're trying to go with this. In any event, if you have a look at Jim's explanation prior to Kyle's last post, it could be that each aircraft has a different timing for the lights, in which case, it's a situation of damned if you do, damned if you don't.

There was really no need for the explanation. I wasn't trying to go anywhere with this post, I was only letting my point of view out. 

 

 

 

Edited by shamrockflyer

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I would assume that the PMDG aircraft has multiple software timers running to drive various events - some far more critical than others. Kyle has spoken often about how important the hardware high precision event timer on the motherboard is to the proper functioning of the entire simulation. If the HPET gets out of sync with the running simulation, all sorts of unexpected problems could arise.

Flashing lights on the external model are undoubtedly a timed event within the software too, but in terms of priority I’d think they take a back seat to more important processes. The lights are, after all, simply a cosmetic effect.

I had the opportunity to test the flash rate on my own installation of the 747-8 over a 5 minute period and the average was 43. That would satisfy the legal requirement of FAR 25.1401 on a real aircraft, and as far as I’m concerned it’s good enough.

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Jim Barrett

Licensed Airframe & Powerplant Mechanic, Avionics, Electrical & Air Data Systems Specialist. Qualified on: Falcon 900, CRJ-200, Dornier 328-100, Hawker 850XP and 1000, Lear 35, 45, 55 and 60, Gulfstream IV and 550, Embraer 135, Beech Premiere and 400A, MD-80.

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3 minutes ago, JRBarrett said:

as far as I’m concerned it’s good enough.

Jim - thank you for your professional calm approach to this topic, I appreciate your feedback and I am satisfied with your explanation. 

As I have said before - I was only pointing out my point of view.

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1 hour ago, Pablo Vazquez said:

OMG... I truly don’t understand WHY this is so important??... GEEZ... Enough!!! 

It's important because he thinks it is. That's not your decision Pablo. The topic was interesting to me as well. You don't get to decide that for other people.
Jim's answer was helpful and it solved my curiosity on the issue. The forum served its purpose well.

Edited by bob34
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13 minutes ago, bob34 said:

It's important because he thinks it is. That's not your decision Pablo. The topic was interesting to me as well. You don't get to decide that for other people.
Jim's answer was helpful and it solved my curiosity on the issue. The forum served its purpose well.

I know it’s not my decision and I never said it was AND please, don’t put words in my mouth. 


Pablo Vazquez - Flight Attendant - Major US Airline

(P3D v4.3, PMDG 744v3, PMDG 748, PMDG 777, PMDG 737 NGX, QualityWings 787, Captain Sim 757, Aerosoft Airbus Professional and FSLabs A320x)

 

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1 hour ago, shamrockflyer said:

If you have a problem with such posts - refrain from commenting and just move on....

I personally didn't have a problem with the thread itself. What I did have a problem with, and subsequently quoted in my post, was suggesting that one go to "your local airport" since not everybody is going to have access to an airport that a 747-8 flies to. I live in Orlando. The nearest place I am going to find a Boeing 747-8 is....Washington DC. So the idea of going to my local airport is out of the question. As far as searching for YouTube videos, camera settings can also affect the way a video is going to come out, so it may or may not necessarily be accurate to go off a YouTube video, either.

In any event, my main point being no two airplanes are going to be the same. You're going off a video saying what PMDG has now isn't accurate. Kyle's going off of what he saw at the airport and saying what PMDG has now is accurate. So which one's actually correct. The answer is yes, based on Jim's explanation, which I pointed out in my aforementioned response to your post. I'm not here to pick sides, I'm just trying to clear things up here.


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35 minutes ago, Captain Kevin said:

What I did have a problem with, and subsequently quoted in my post, was suggesting that one go to "your local airport"

I know Kyle lives closer to Dulles than a lot of us here do so that is why I was referring him to go to his local airport. 

Anyway - I appreciate the feedback, and yes it would seem that not all aircraft are the same, although all videos in which I have watched with the -8 are different to that of the PMDG -8. 

Anyhow...the admin(s) may lock this post as to avoid any potential future "arguments".

Thank you.

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Wow, the OP makes a observation and as usual you guys crucify him. Granted his title could have been worded differently but than again we come from different parts of the world where words have different meanings. It’s a wonder no buddy wants to ask a question or participate in the forums. 

I’m fine with the lights but not with the recent trend of negativity that comes from this forum. I’m sure I’ll get an earful also 😞

Edited by Wise87
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12 hours ago, shamrockflyer said:

I know Kyle lives closer to Dulles than a lot of us here do so that is why I was referring him to go to his local airport. 

I do, and the thing flies over daily.

All the same, when it comes to making a point, the burden of proof is on the accuser (or in this example, the one making his point). As such, evidence must be provided. If you walk in to any discussion with "this is wrong, I have no evidence for you, but go look it up." If you get pushback on that, you deserve it.

Making a formal point is pretty simple, and if you do it right, you're very likely not going to get any pushback: "Here's my issue. Here are my sources."

Had I gotten a video, or direct evidence (you'll note, I requested nothing different), my response would have likely been "let me check with the team." Instead, I got no evidence (and therefore no real reason to take time I could be doing literally any other thing instead of chasing some blind assertion someone made no real effort to make), and a bit of snark.

"Hi, PMDG, your PFD is incorrect. The top if supposed to be magenta." [Provides no source.]

Am I supposed to run off to find why this person thinks this, and/or waste time trying to find evidence against an argument for which this person has provided no evidence?
...or should the person making the argument furnish evidence?


Kyle Rodgers

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Ok. I'd like to help. Was looking to purchase and watched a "review" video online and noticed the wingtip LEDs. It appeared that the timings were a bit off so I did some digging online. There are several videos to show this but I picked one with the review video to show what I believe is the current state of the LEDs in the current PMDG version:

1. Video of actual 747-8i departing at night (20s into video). Note the wingtip lights. I won't get even pickier and state that the upper and lower anti-collision lights flash in alternating sequence also.

2. Now take a look at this review (4:13 mark) and look at the timing of the wingtip LEDs.

I own the old QoSII for FSX and will probably purchase this for P3D. But watching this video, I noticed this right away and thought, "huh, that doesn't look right" but let's check. 5 minutes on YouTube and I find the above video..and many others..to show that yes, simple thing, the timing is off. 

PMDG have a well-deserved reputation for QUALITY. I own ALL of their aircraft bar one for X-Plane. Don't dismiss this as a small insignificant detail. it IS a feature that identifies this aircraft from the 400, much like LEDs on the 737-800+ separates them from the 300 or the double-flashing strobes on the A320. Yes, details matter.

 

Aaron

Edited by adl320
Changed tone of post.

Aaron Lee

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On 9/26/2018 at 7:54 AM, JRBarrett said:

You can’t assume that the make and model of the strobe lights on every in-service 747-8 is the same as every other, or that their performance characteristics are all the same.The model has been in production since 2010.

As mentioned in previous posts, newer LED strobes flash fewer times per minute than gas-discharge strobes. The “on” time of the light is much higher with LED’s. It’s more like turning a switch off and on at regular intervals.

The flash duration with gas-discharge strobes is only a few milliseconds by contrast.

Are all -8’s equipped with LED strobes? I don’t know. If they are, and always have been LED’s, has there been any change in Boeing’s  supplier of the lights over the last 8 years.

My employer has several Dassault Falcon 900 aircraft which were originally equipped with gas discharge strobes, and all have been upgraded to LED models made by Emteq, who is a major player in the aircraft lighting industry - but not the only one who supplies lighting solutions to aircraft manufacturers by any means.

In order to comply with the provisions of FAR 25.1401, we, as the aircraft operator are required to measure and record the light intensity and flash rate of the installed anti collision lights every 24 months. I just looked at the maintenance records for the tests done on the old gas-discharge strobes vs. the newer LED on one particular aircraft. The original gas discharge strobes had a measured flash rate of 78 flashes-per-minute. The LED replacements flash 55 times per-minute. That’s a significant difference.

As long as the PMDG strobes flash at least 40 times per minute, they are in compliance with FAA regulations.

 

Boeing does not provide aircraft with random patterns for wingtip strobes and LEDs on their aircraft because it doesn't matter. It's what helps identify what aircraft and series it is.

  • 737 Classic: Unless upgraded to new LEDs, 737 Classics have all strobes with their own flash pattern.
  • 737-NGs and up without LEDs have longer timings between traditional wingtip strobe and anti-collision light and a white tail strobe that flashes at a higher frequency.
  • 737s with LEDs have the long wingtip LED light timing and traditional red strobe anti-collision light and still with the higher frequency flashing tail strobe.
  • 747-8i is similar to 737 NGs wing tip LEDs.
  • 777 has the same long timing between traditional strobe wing and anti-collision as non-LED 737 NGs and 747-8i but the tail strobe is in exact firing sequence to the wingtip strobes.
  • 747-400 same as 777
  • 787 has ALL LED wingtip and anti-collision and have longer timings as well.

It's not about FAA regulations. It's about modeling what is present on the real aircraft today. go spend some time at your local airport at night with any mix of the above aircraft and you'll see the patterns. This is what enables you to look up at a plane at night and identify what it is just by looking at the light pattern. That is not done by accident. It is a "branding" signature of that aircraft - within the allowance of the regs.

 

Aaron

Edited by adl320

Aaron Lee

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Gents,

Posts need to be signed. Rules need to be observed.

...to include the courtesy of providing evidence of your position when you make an accusation. The burden of proof is on the accuser. People criticizing my stance on this - a commonly accepted maxim of debate - need to take a moment on consider their stance on feelings versus facts. Note that once this was provided, the point was conceded. It's pretty simple. This shouldn't bother anyone.

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Kyle Rodgers

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12 hours ago, scandinavian13 said:

Gents,

Posts need to be signed. Rules need to be observed.

...to include the courtesy of providing evidence of your position when you make an accusation. The burden of proof is on the accuser. People criticizing my stance on this - a commonly accepted maxim of debate - need to take a moment on consider their stance on feelings versus facts. Note that once this was provided, the point was conceded. It's pretty simple. This shouldn't bother anyone.

Hello and thanks for the reply. I may have missed the conceded point? Was it that the LEDs were correct or that some timing updates needed to be made? I posted evidence above to help demonstrate the differences between modeled and actual airplane. Let me know and I’ll move on.

 

Thanks!

Edited by adl320
Grammar

Aaron Lee

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14 hours ago, adl320 said:

I may have missed the conceded point?

Someone provided evidence to support their case, which I acknowledged in a couple posts immediately before this linked post. In this linked post, I specifically state that I'd take it to the team after verifying the supplied evidence.


Kyle Rodgers

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