Ray Proudfoot

New P3D v4 PC - advice and comments welcome

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I'm putting together the components for a new PC that will be built professionally as I'm not familiar with overclocking and want a warranty for what is an expensive bit of kit. The supplier is an hour away from my home near Bolton, Lancs, England.

It's for P3D v4 and the video signal will feed a UHD monitor.

  • Fractal Design Define S ATX case
  • Gigabyte Intel Z370M mobo
  • Intel Core i7 8086K
  • Corsair Hydro H100x cooler
  • 32GB (2x16GB) Corsair DDR4 Vengeance LPX Black, PC4-24000 (3000), Non-ECC Unbuffered, CAS 15-17-17-35, XMP 2.0, 1.35V
  • 11GB EVGA GeForce RTX 2080 Ti XC ULTRA
  • 850W Corsair RMx, Modular, Silent, 80PLUS Gold PSU
  • 500GB Samsung 970 EVO M.2 SSD
  • 1TB Samsung 860 EVO SSD
  • 1TB Seagate ST1000DM010 BarraCuda HDD
  • Windows 10 Pro

Any advantage to the Z390 mobo over the Z370?

My supplier only has Corsair RAM so others are not an option. Are there noticeable benefits to even faster RAM or 4*8Gb rather than 2*16Gb?

I've more or less decided on the 8086K processor as that can be successfully overclocked to 5Ghz. Last PC had an Asus mobo and I had problems with it keeping the correct time so it was swapped for a Gigabyte and I'm happy with them.

I like to have the OS on a separate drive but I'll also use part of that for P3D when required. Plan is to have OS on C and P3D on D. HDD is just for docs etc.

Edited by Ray Proudfoot
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14 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

I'm putting together the components for a new PC that will be build professionally as I'm not familiar with overclocking and want a warranty for what is an expensive bit of kit. The supplier is an hour away from my home near Bolton, Lancs, England.

Hard to argue with this Kit. I too have parts on order to build an 8086K setup. My suggestion would be to talk with your builder about the MB. I decided to go with the more expensive Z390 (ASUS Hero in my case)because I want to give the 8086 every chance to perform to its max. Don't care about Brand. That is mostly personal choice. It's worth asking the question about a stronger MB even if you go with a 370.

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Thanks Sam. Comparing the 370 and 390 it wasn’t obvious what the benefits were. But I agree a chat will help.

I just know if I opt for a 1080Ti over the 2080Ti LM will then configure P3D in such a way that will greatly improve performance and I would then kick myself for not biting the bullet. So, somewhat riskely I’m biting the bullet.

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14 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Thanks Sam. Comparing the 370 and 390 it wasn’t obvious what the benefits were. But I agree a chat will help.

I just know if I opt for a 1080Ti over the 2080Ti LM will then configure P3D in such a way that will greatly improve performance and I would then kick myself for not biting the bullet. So, somewhat riskely I’m biting the bullet.

Yep....I am leaning towards getting just the 1080TI at this point to replace my 980TI which is over taxed running 4K monitor. It seems like the best choice for me  because I fly only GA and don't get into a lot of FPS costly airport add ons. I do just fine with the ORBX free airport add ons. In the end I think we are going to take a hit in the wallet either now with the 2080TI or in a year or two. LOL just a matter of choosing when you want to deal with the pain.

Edited by shivers9

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5 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

According to this article the benefits of the Z390 are wireless networking and up to 6 USB 3.1 ports. Neither are essential for my system.

https://www.pcworld.com/article/3268063/components-processors/intel-motherboard-z370-vs-h370-vs-b360-vs-h310-8th-gen-cpu.html

Sorry I may have confused the issue with the 390Z. My real point is make sure the Z370 you mentioned is strong enough. It most likely won't make much difference in how the new computer performs just may be more durable and stable. At any rate your builder can best answer that for you.

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Quote

Gigabyte Intel Z370M mobo



Which version of the Z370M? Some of the Z370M's are Micro ATX, not full size ATX... just so you know

 

Quote

Corsair Hydro H100x cooler

 

I would go for a 280 rad AIO, if you favour AIO's. Just my preference. Not sure if your chosen case supports a 280 rad. Better cooling and quieter

 

Quote

11GB EVGA GeForce RTX 2080 Ti XC ULTRA

 

A tricky decision. Pretty certain that the new Nvidia architecture will be out next year, and 20 series may be the most short lived Nvidia have released to date. And a huge price premium while Nvidia encourage us to buy the 10 series because they have over one million cards in storage they need to get rid of. But I must admit... when I've settled for "not the latest" iv'e regretted it, so not an easy decision. 

 

Quote

32GB (2x16GB) Corsair DDR4 Vengeance LPX Black, PC4-24000 (3000), Non-ECC Unbuffered, CAS 15-17-17-35, XMP 2.0, 1.35V

 

I'd go for 3200 MHz or 3400 MHz. I'm no expert on the Corsair RAM, as I said before, GSkill Ripjaw V or Trident Z I'm a fan of.

Edited by martin-w
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7 minutes ago, shivers9 said:

Yep....I am leaning towards getting just the 1080TI at this point to replace my 980TI which is over taxed running 4K monitor. It seems like the best choice for me  because I fly only GA and don't get into a lot of FPS costly airport add ons. I do just fine with the ORBX free airport add ons. In the end I think we are going to take a hit in the wallet either now with the 2080TI or in a year or two. LOL just a matter of choosing when you want to deal with the pain.

Nvidia tend not to reduce prices so I don’t see their cards becoming cheaper in a year or two. As far as pain goes get it over with ASAP. 😄

I fly jets primary and have quite a few 3rd party airports so the demands are high. If fps are still low with that kit then I know the sliders need to go left. 😁

You’ll be fine with the 1080Ti at 4K.

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@martin-w, thanks for the advice. It is an ATX case so options are limited but I will check on the cooler option. The Gigabyte mobo was the Micro-ATX variant. Don’t think I’ll bother with the Z390 as I don’t need the extras.

I agree it’s a risk with the 2080Ti especially given the price. I wonder if the 2080 would be a sensible compromise as it’s only £150 more than a 1080Ti but does have Ray Tracing capability and in bench tests was as fast as the 1080Ti.

Edited by Ray Proudfoot

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19 minutes ago, shivers9 said:

Sorry I may have confused the issue with the 390Z. My real point is make sure the Z370 you mentioned is strong enough. It most likely won't make much difference in how the new computer performs just may be more durable and stable. At any rate your builder can best answer that for you.

Sam, can you explain what you mean by “strong enough” please? Do you mean physically strong enough to hold the components?

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I am speaking more of good components and good heat sinks. I have been guilty in the past of thinking the $130 MB will be "good enough" and saving a couple hundred dollars on the MB. I am now of the opinion, based on having sit through hours of reviews on memory and MB ratings and reviews, that these thing are more important now. My thinking is that because we are now pushing these chips and memory nearer to the limits the quality of the parts that goes into the MB is more important. 

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Sam, thanks for clarifying. Given it’s a high-end board I would expect its components to be of high quality. It’s £117 but as it’s a Micro-ATX format seems about right..

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I went with a Z390 motherboard.  Everybody says there is no difference in the power components of the Z370's and Z390s' but... how come the 9000 series CPU's draw more power than the 8000's?  Higher power draw, more heat, better cooling.  Given that there's so much FUD about the new releases I decided to error on the side of caution.  Cost a bit more but is cheap insurance.  Additionally, if I do want to upgrade from the 8086K to a 9000 in the future all I'll need is the CPU... relatively cheap upgrade then.

Greg

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7 minutes ago, lownslo said:

I went with a Z390 motherboard.  Everybody says there is no difference in the power components of the Z370's and Z390s' but... how come the 9000 series CPU's draw more power than the 8000's?  Higher power draw, more heat, better cooling.  Given that there's so much FUD about the new releases I decided to error on the side of caution.  Cost a bit more but is cheap insurance.  Additionally, if I do want to upgrade from the 8086K to a 9000 in the future all I'll need is the CPU... relatively cheap upgrade then.

Greg

That was my thinking also. It's always a gamble. These days the only thing we can be sure of is how pretty the little blinking lights will look inside the case that no one else will ever see!!🙈

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47 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

@martin-w, thanks for the advice. It is an ATX case so options are limited but I will check on the cooler option. The Gigabyte mobo was the Micro-ATX variant. Don’t think I’ll bother with the Z390 as I don’t need the extras.

 

 

 

if it were me, I wouldn't spend all that money on a top-notch system, and then compromise it to a degree with a Micro ATX motherboard. There are some really great Mini ITX and Micro ATX boards around, but they are trying to pack all that's required for a high performing motherboard into a small package, that always comes with compromises. 

 

 

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57 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

 

I agree it’s a risk with the 2080Ti especially given the price. 

 

its not a risk at all, it's an awesome graphics card. Only the cost is the eyebrow raiser. If you don't mind paying a premium, and you don't mind something better arriving in twelve months (which is likely) then you won'y be disappointed. 

 

Water cooling options for Define S

 

Water cooling compatibility - Radiators

  • Front – 360, 280, 240, 140 and 120 mm radiators of all thicknesses
  • Top – 420, 360, 280, 240, 140 and 120 mm radiators. (A thickness limitation of 55mm for both radiator + fan applies on 420, 280 and 140 mm radiators)
  • Bottom – 120 mm radiator (Use of radiators in the bottom position limits the PSU length to 165 mm)
  • Rear – 120 or 140 mm radiator

https://www.fractal-design.com/home/product/cases/define-series/define-s

Edited by martin-w
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49 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

@martin-w, thanks for the advice. It is an ATX case so options are limited but I will check on the cooler option. The Gigabyte mobo was the Micro-ATX variant. Don’t think I’ll bother with the Z390 as I don’t need the extras.

I agree it’s a risk with the 2080Ti especially given the price. I wonder if the 2080 would be a sensible compromise as it’s only £150 more than a 1080Ti but does have Ray Tracing capability and in bench tests was as fast as the 1080Ti.

Food for thought.  There are a lot of used 1080ti's on the market right now.  In the states they are going for 500-600 dollars.  1080ti's in SLI would easily out perform a single 2080ti.

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1080ti's in SLI would easily out perform a single 2080ti.

 

But how does SLI perform in the sim? 

Never ran SLI, but I recall it can be troublesome. I would always go for the most powerful single card. 

 

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42 minutes ago, lownslo said:

I went with a Z390 motherboard.  Everybody says there is no difference in the power components of the Z370's and Z390s' but... how come the 9000 series CPU's draw more power than the 8000's?  Higher power draw, more heat, better cooling.  Given that there's so much FUD about the new releases I decided to error on the side of caution.  Cost a bit more but is cheap insurance.  Additionally, if I do want to upgrade from the 8086K to a 9000 in the future all I'll need is the CPU... relatively cheap upgrade then.

Greg

I'm unlikely to be swapping CPUs for quite some time and perhaps never with this system. The speed improvements are slowing down compared to years gone by and in any case I suspect LM will continue to push more work onto the GPU than the CPU.

But useful info all the same, thanks.

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27 minutes ago, martin-w said:

if it were me, I wouldn't spend all that money on a top-notch system, and then compromise it to a degree with a Micro ATX motherboard. There are some really great Mini ITX and Micro ATX boards around, but they are trying to pack all that's required for a high performing motherboard into a small package, that always comes with compromises.

A friend bought an identical system to mine listed in my sig 5 years ago. The only difference was he went for a full case and I went for a Micro. Our systems were overclocked exactly the same so I doubt the case size compromises performance. The downside is probably the number of available slots for M.2 SSDs and perhaps additional RAM slots. Cooling has been fine even after I added a 1080 (formerly a 780).

I've never felt my existing system was compromised with an Micro-ATX format.

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27 minutes ago, mpw8679 said:

Food for thought.  There are a lot of used 1080ti's on the market right now.  In the states they are going for 500-600 dollars.  1080ti's in SLI would easily out perform a single 2080ti.

Given it's going to be built professionally I want all the components to be new. SLI is not an option in a Micro-ATX board of course.

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32 minutes ago, martin-w said:

 

But how does SLI perform in the sim? 

Never ran SLI, but I recall it can be troublesome. I would always go for the most powerful single card. 

 

My experience has been very positive.  Keep in mind I like to run a lot of eye candy on a ultra wide monitor.  I was having issues with a single 1080ti keeping up with my settings when using complex aircraft and airports.  With SLI I have a lot more headroom to play with and can run higher settings (DL, clouds, shadows, etc..)

 

 

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45 minutes ago, mpw8679 said:

My experience has been very positive.  Keep in mind I like to run a lot of eye candy on a ultra wide monitor.  I was having issues with a single 1080ti keeping up with my settings when using complex aircraft and airports.  With SLI I have a lot more headroom to play with and can run higher settings (DL, clouds, shadows, etc..)

Matt, it's quite frustrating when people obviously have a great system but don't post their specs. The signature block is ideal for that. :wink:

For UK readers I've asked Chillblast to put a system together based on the info in my first post but where necessary making changes for extra RAM speed if it will make a decent difference, and cooling.

From early findings it appears they will be more expensive than Scan by a couple of hundred. I might have to haggle.

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44 minutes ago, Ray Proudfoot said:

Matt, it's quite frustrating when people obviously have a great system but don't post their specs. The signature block is ideal for that. :wink:

 

I am the worlds worst procrastinator.  But yes I should do that

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This looks to be the kit I'll be ordering from Chillblast in the next few days. Change of mobo and it is ATX, not Micro-ATX. I've asked if the memory can be identified. G Skill preferred over Corsair based on recommendations here.

  • 1x Bullguard Internet Security - Free 90 Day Licence
  • 1x Fractal Design Define S Case - Black
  • 1x Intel Core i7-8086K Coffee Lake CPU, 6 Cores / 12 Threads, 4.0 - 5.0GHz
  • 1x 32GB DDR4 3000MHz Memory (2 x 16GB Sticks)
  • 1x Asus PRIME Z370-A Motherboard
  • 1x Corsair Hydro H100x CPU Cooler
  • 1x NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 Ti 11GB GDDR6 Graphics Card
  • 1x 500GB Samsung 970 EVO M.2 PCIe Solid State Drive
  • 1x 1TB Samsung 860 EVO Solid State Drive
  • 1x Seagate 1TB BarraCuda 7200RPM Hard Disk
  • 1x Windows 10 Pro 64-bit
  • 1x Corsair RM850x 80 PLUS Gold 850W PSU
  • 1x 5 Year Warranty, 2 Years Collect and Return UK only*

I could do with a few more USB ports. Is it best just to go for a PCI card with 4 ports? USB2 is fine and no extra power is required. They're for things like Saitek Throttles.

Edited by Ray Proudfoot

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