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GTN 750 in VR (resolved)

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Hi,

I'm using the GTN 750 (version 2.4.14.0) with X-Plane 11.20 VR6 and I have a problem : I cannot click on the buttons of the touch screen in VR (with Oculus Rift) with the mouse cursor (or with the Oculus Touch controllers).

If I remove the VR headset and move it to see the GTN in the field of view (on the 2D monitor) and the use the 2D mouse cursor to click on one of the buttons, it works. Also, if I use the same instance of X-Plane without the VR gear, it works too.

I also own the GNS 530 and have no problem with this one in VR : as it is controlled through buttons, and not touch screen, it works.

I was able to use the GTN 750 before in VR, but I can't remember the changes I made between then and now.

Any ideas ?

Franck

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Hi, as far as I remember this is how XPlane is interfacing in VR mode ( see the Dev blogs). Until they come up with an official SDK suport for mouse in VR.


Jean-Luc | reality-xp.com
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Ok,

I was ready to swear it worked on a previous beta version, but I probably mixed up things.

Regards

Franck

 

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Here is more recent information:

https://developer.x-plane.com/code-sample/vr-window-sample/
"Note that as of X-Plane 11.20, control over windows in VR is quite limited—you can move a window to VR and move it out of VR, but that’s about it."

 

Having said this, the VR Window Sample linked above, and your comments, make me wonder:

  1. Do you actually see the 2D GTN window when in VR?
  2. Is this with the GTN window in-sim (floating) or detached (popped-out)?

I'm wondering what is the purpose of the new XPL SDK 301 'xplm_WindowVR' window position mode  (we don't have VR equipment to try out yet) should both already be yes?!

 

 


Jean-Luc | reality-xp.com
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Hi Jean Luc,

In fact I'm not using the GTN 750 as a window, I'm using it in the 3D cockpit of a plane where it was integrated (namely the JustFlight Piper Arrow III). In the first beta VR compatible versions of x-plane, you could not use the mouse and had to interact with the 3D cockpit with a VR controller. One of the first things I checked was that it was possible to interact this way with the touch interface of the RXP GTN 750 (I'm such a fan of the product) and it was. Then other beta versions came, adding at some point the possibility to interact with the 3d cockpit with a mouse (you now have a huge pointer moving in the 3D VR space with the mouse) and I'm not able to interact with it with the touch buttons of the GTN 750, only with the "hardware" buttons (home, knob...). I can't do it with the controller neither. I'm not sure now when the function disappeared : was it befween the 11.20 VR5 and 11.20 VR6 or was it before ?

The funny thing is that if I remove the VR headset, I see on the monitor the "mirror" image of what I see in the headset (just in 2D) and if I move the headset so I can see the GTN 750 on the monitor and then move the mouse cursor on the 2D image on the monitor to click on one of the touch buttons, it works.

As I said in the first message, the GNS 530 has not such problems (I'm using it integrated in a 3D cockpit too, in the vFlyteAir Piper twin comanche) because there is no touch screen. You interact only with it with hardware buttons and this works.

 

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Hi,

This explains a lot then. In effect, X-Plane doesn't provide any capability to associate a rendering surface area (that is where-to the GTN renders - within the bounds of the panel.png as a matter of fact), and a mouse click/area the plugin could be notified from X-Plane whenever there is a mouse event.

Because of this, offering 3D mouse support in X-Plane requires creating a 2D window covering the entire X-Plane window, which will draw nothing (invisible window) but just takes mouse inputs. In addition, our plugin must ensure this window is always on top so that another window won't catch the mouse instead.

Furthermore, the SDK doesn't allow a window to let a click pass through (per the SDK documentation), but there are subtle workaround to make this happen.

Well in short: X-Plane has never been designed for mouse input in 3D besides hard-coded mouse 'click spots' in the 3D model, and it is well possible the VR mode prevents full screen invisible windows to even work, because there is no 2D window in VR mode?

On March 16, 2018 at 2:38 PM, RXP said:

Having said this, the VR Window Sample linked above, and your comments, make me wonder:

  1. Do you actually see the 2D GTN window when in VR?
  2. Is this with the GTN window in-sim (floating) or detached (popped-out)?

I'm wondering what is the purpose of the new XPL SDK 301 'xplm_WindowVR' window position mode  (we don't have VR equipment to try out yet) should both already be yes?!

Now, I'd very much like you could try this and let me know the outcome, because with XP11.20, there is a new window position mode. XP11.10 added 'popout', XP11.20 added 'vr', and since we're actually working on the final bits of the next update, I'd like to know what the current popup/popout 2D window gives in VR, so that we consider whether we add the new 'VR' position mode as an option.


Jean-Luc | reality-xp.com
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Hi,

This time I used the laminar Cessna 172 and opened the GTN in a 2D window, both embedded and floating. In both cases, it doesn't show up in VR.

In both cases, the window is visible in the x-plane window on the monitor mirorring the VR headset view (see screenshots), but not in the VR headset itself.

Note : I'm in x-plane 11.20b1 version now as there was an update yesterday.2018-03-18.jpg2018-03-18%20(1).jpg

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Thank you for the additional info. This explains the purpose of the new flag in the SDK 301: to make a popout window render in the VR headset. We'll try to see how the best to make this if not auto-detected, at least manual, in the next update.


Jean-Luc | reality-xp.com
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Hi,

We've just released a new v2.4.15 update, with preliminary support for VR popup windows.

What it does is just follow the XP SDK guideline and code example: if the "sim/graphics/VR/enabled" dataref is set, our popup windows automatically become 'VR' popup window, otherwise, there continue working as usual.

It is supposed to display the popup windows in the VR headset instead of the main monitor(s) as in this example: https://developer.x-plane.com/code-sample/vr-window-sample/

Edited by RXP

Jean-Luc | reality-xp.com
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With this version the (2.4.15) GTN window is attached to my view in front of my eyes, following my head movements, can't move the window or lock at any location.

in the older version I click show window and then could move it to the xpad, can't do that anymore on this version. I wasn't able to see the window in VR, I move it from 2d to the xpad and then I could see it in VR.

Couldn't find more info in manual. Rolling back. If you need more testing, I'll be glad to help. (Oculus Rift)

----

Nope Couldn't rollback. :blink:

Edited by Celis

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@Celis Per the new XPlane SDK 3.01, Windows set to the 'VR' layer are supposed to appear all at the same place, but once loaded, you can move them to where you want. At least, this is what is documented.

Therefore, the latest version now detects whether you are in VR, and opens popup windows as 'VR' instead of 'popup'. Popout windows shouldn't be affected though.

Should you want to roll back, we always keep previous version around in case:

http://files.100megabyte.com/realityxp/rxpGTN-XPL(2.4.14).zip

Just delete the GTN plugin folder, eventually delete both C:\ProgramData\RealityXP\rxpGtnSim32.dll and rxpGtnSim64.dll, prior reinstalling.

I think we'll quickly issue an update to the update to disable VR for now, the SDK is not mature enough yet.

 

Edited by RXP
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Jean-Luc | reality-xp.com
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link updated, sorry for this.

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Jean-Luc | reality-xp.com
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I just wanted to make sure before we disable the VR support introduced in v2.4.15.

The XPlane blog says:
https://developer.x-plane.com/2018/03/vr-support-for-plugins-is-here/

When a window is added to VR space, it will be attached to the user’s head-mounted display (HMD)—as they move their head, the window will move with it. The user can then move the window into a fixed position (relative to the aircraft) by grabbing the window with their controller (or the mouse, in 3-D mouse cursor mode) and dragging it around. This mirrors the way the built-in ATC window works right now.

 

The first part, "as they move their head..." is consistent with your report. However, they mention you're supposed to be able to move the window with your controller. This part is no working isn't it?


Jean-Luc | reality-xp.com
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