Wink207

Flashing Part II

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Hi all:

Running FSX, Falcon 1.5. Flashing is much better now but unfortunately still with us. Seems to correlate to low altitude maneuvering in terminal area with dense scenery. Only when looking out straight ahead. Not seen on looking to either side. Not seen at altitude even with dense REX clouds at 1024. Very annoying though. Tough to see the runway. 🙂

Rick

Edited by Wink207

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I haven't seen flashing with v1.5b in FSX or P3Dv4.4, but do see it in FSX-SE.  This could of course just be an issue with my particular system, so would like to hear if anyone else is having similar issues, and if so, in what sim. I know FSW has been working to resolve this issue for all sim versions, so the more feedback/information the better. Note the latest Falcon50 version in the FSW store for testing is v1.5b.

Thx,

Al

Edited by ark

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Hi Al:

I installed 1.5b in my FSX just now. Will give it a try tomorrow. For a few flights I had not see the flashing but yesterday I landed at Hyannis which is in a very dense scenery area with payware add ons Nantucket and Martha's Vineyard in range. I saw a brief couple of flashes but it did not continue the entire approach. But today I landed at another busy area and the flashes were distracting and continued the entire approach. As I mentioned though, strangely, they were only visible in the VC looking ahead. Not looking to the side. Not looking in the passenger area, not on any outside views. In the past I have seen flashing and persistent artifacts in the passenger area as well. Also today I did not see an artifact which persisted, like a stationary surface, which I had seen in the past. My system is 4790k/980GTX/4k 60 hz HD TV. I also run in fsx.cfg BUFFERPOOLS=0.

Hope this helps.

Rick

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I installed v1.5b into FSX this evening and unfortunately I am seeing the flashing again. I had seen it intermittently with some of the previous versions also but not on every flight. A little frustrating!

Bill

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1 hour ago, scianoir said:

 A little frustrating!

Yes, and I think for FSW as well! Based on my limited understanding the issue seems to be related to the high degree of realism (i.e., amount and type of coding) incorporated into the Falcon 50 which is proving to be a challenge for the 32 bit sims. I'm not aware of any flashing reports for P3Dv4, a 64 bit sim. The problem is further complicated by that fact that what seems to work fine for some 32 bit sim installations doesn't work for others.

Al

Edited by ark

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Here is what Mark wrote in another thread regarding VC flashes I was seeing in P3D v2.4...

"Ok. i am working on an idea how to make less visibility tags for the interior model. This has hit a limit that causes the issue. Once we added the AP light below the GA light this all started".

Not a programmer, so not sure what "visibility tags" are? and not sure if this is still the problem, but I have v1.4 installed and have no more flashes.

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7 minutes ago, ark said:

Yes, and I think for FSW as well! From my limited understanding the issue seems to be related to the high degree of realism (i.e., amount and type of coding) incorporated into the Falcon 50 which is proving to be a challenge for the 32 bit sims. I'm not aware of any flashing reports for P3Dv4.

Al

Al:

No flashing with PMDG. No flashing with the Lear 35. No flashing with MADDOG, no flashing with the Lear 25,,,etc, etc. Sorry, but I tend to get defensive when the P3D flag is waved and fingers are pointed at FSX. Perhaps there needs to be a trade off between minutia of realism that do not affect flight, and stable, realistic flight.

Rick

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1 hour ago, MartinRex007 said:

Here is what Mark wrote in another thread regarding VC flashes I was seeing in P3D v2.4...

"Ok. i am working on an idea how to make less visibility tags for the interior model. This has hit a limit that causes the issue. Once we added the AP light below the GA light this all started".

Not a programmer, so not sure what "visibility tags" are? and not sure if this is still the problem, but I have v1.4 installed and have no more flashes.

I saw flashes way back in early beta. I didn't bring it up at the time because I was bogged down in sound problems, so my system was suspect. I did not come forward until others did first. I'm still not convinced that the issue is somehow related to some tweak I am using. Edit: I misspoke here. What I meant to say was that the flashing COULD be related to some tweak I am using.

BTW, we all appreciate the hard work by Mark et al and in no way am I criticizing the FSW effort. They are superb and I have said so earlier

 

Edited by Wink207
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3 minutes ago, Wink207 said:

I'm still not convinced that the issue is somehow related to some tweak I am using.

It sounds like it's more a memory limit of 32bit systems?

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3 minutes ago, MartinRex007 said:

It sounds like it's more a memory limit of 32bit systems?

What do I know? Nothing on those matters. But I do know that I have never had an OOM with the Falcon. I have a little experiment I run on all new aircraft to me to assess the relative VAS contribution, and the Falcon was just slightly higher than the Lear 35.

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1 hour ago, Wink207 said:

Al:

No flashing with PMDG. No flashing with the Lear 35. No flashing with MADDOG, no flashing with the Lear 25,,,etc, etc. Sorry, but I tend to get defensive when the P3D flag is waved and fingers are pointed at FSX. Perhaps there needs to be a trade off between minutia of realism that do not affect flight, and stable, realistic flight.

Rick

Rick,

Currently the interior model file ( where a lot of the "sim work" is done) for the Falcon 50 is larger than for both the PMDG 737 and for the Lear35, and the PMDG 737 does not have a cabin "to support" -- just a VC.  For one example, the Lear35 interior model file is about 10MB, and the Falcon 50 interior model file is about 17MB.  I don't understand all the details, but apparently the type of sim can make a difference in such cases.

However, I do agree one approach would be to reduce the realism in "non-flight" areas for the 32 bit sims, but of course as a user it is not my call. And the catch here is that what is not important to some, is important to others. For example, as far as I am personally concerned, the Falcon 50 could be a cargo plane. I'm not the least bit interested in what is behind the cockpit.  As a result, I was quite surprised when on Facebook I saw complaints because FSW removed the animated curtains from the cabin while working on the flashing issue! Curtains?! So it is not surprising to me that Mark is working hard to find an acceptable middle ground. And he will.

Al

 

Edited by ark

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29 minutes ago, Wink207 said:

What do I know? Nothing on those matters. But I do know that I have never had an OOM with the Falcon. I have a little experiment I run on all new aircraft to me to assess the relative VAS contribution, and the Falcon was just slightly higher than the Lear 35.

The flashing is not a VAS issue. I currently get flashing in FSX-SE when sitting on the runway just after loading the plane into the sim.

I am admittedly WAY out of my element here ( and I'm sure Mark will correct any misconceptions), but from what I understand the flashing has to due with what it takes to "draw" and/or "animate" all the parts that make up the aircraft. The more the parts, and the more parts you have that can move, the worse the potential for flashing. So, for example,  it makes a difference if a button is animated (actually moves when 'pressed') or is not animated but just "works".  Also, it is worth noting that a steam gauge analog cockpit tends to have a lot more moving parts than a glass cockpit, and thus has a corresponding increased processing load.   In short, as I see it the issue with flashing is that there is a heck of a lot of parts in the Falcon 50, and a lot of them can move.

Al

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1 hour ago, ark said:

Rick,

Currently the interior model file ( where a lot of the "sim work" is done) for the Falcon 50 is larger than for both the PMDG 737 and for the Lear35, and the PMDG 737 does not have a cabin "to support" -- just a VC.  For one example, the Lear35 interior model file is about 10MB, and the Falcon 50 interior model file is about 17MB.  I don't understand all the details, but apparently the type of sim can make a difference in such cases.

However, I do agree one approach would be to reduce the realism in "non-flight" areas for the 32 bit sims, but of course as a user it is not my call. And the catch here is that what is not important to some, is important to others. For example, as far as I am personally concerned, the Falcon 50 could be a cargo plane. I'm not the least bit interested in what is behind the cockpit.  As a result, I was quite surprised when on Facebook I saw complaints because FSW removed the animated curtains from the cabin while working on the flashing issue! So it is not surprising to me that Mark is working hard to find an acceptable middle ground. And he will.

Al

 

Hi Al:

What a brilliant post. Thank you for enlightening me on the details. It brings to mind what a diverse community we flight simulator enthusiasts are. We have people who enjoy the looks of cockpits and exterior models exclusively. They capture great screen shots and publish them for our enjoyment, both aircraft and scenery. A large group focuses on the realistic features of aircraft, and scenery. An equally large group enjoys pursuing the evolution of the computing technology, and for many of them flight simulation is one of several or many applications. Some, as I, are sort of a little of everything. I enjoy the challenge of starting a flight, prepping the aircraft, navigating to a far away location, and landing safely at the destination. To do that, I need a reasonably realistic aircraft, reasonably realistic scenery, a sim underpinning all, and a computing system which will do the job, again reasonably. And there is plenty of room for all, as there is so much to do.

I am interested in the Falcon because it answers a need I have had, which is a smallish jet with intercontinental range. The current realism and appearance are all I need to be happy. I'm not a demanding user. As is right now the Falcon is everything I need. Perfect. There is another add on developer, whose company I will not name, who has gone off in a direction to create features which make their product unusable in the 32 bit environment. These features add nothing to the realism of the environment insofar as aviation, but there is a group of their customer base who applaud the move because it appeals to them.

I believe FSW has all their customers in mind as they continue by far to be the best developer in our world.

I didn't even know the shades went up and down.....:)

Edited by Wink207
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23 minutes ago, ark said:

The flashing is not a VAS issue. I currently get flashing in FSX-SE when sitting on the runway just after loading the plane into the sim.

I am admittedly WAY out of my element here ( and I'm sure Mark will correct any misconceptions), but from what I understand the flashing has to due with what it takes to "draw" and/or "animate" all the parts that make up the aircraft. The more the parts, and the more parts you have that can move, the worse the potential for flashing. So, for example,  it makes a difference if a button is animated (actually moves when 'pressed') or is not animated but just "works".  Also, it is worth noting that a steam gauge analog cockpit tends to have a lot more moving parts than a glass cockpit, and thus has a corresponding increased processing load.   In short, as I see it the issue with flashing is that there is a heck of a lot of parts in the Falcon 50, and a lot of them can move.

Al

Al:

Ha! Make that 2 brilliant posts. Are you an educator by profession? I have been for a segment of my career and I recognize certain traits in your ability to explain complex subjects in an understandable fashion.

Thanks again

Rick

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1 hour ago, ark said:

The flashing is not a VAS issue. I currently get flashing in FSX-SE when sitting on the runway just after loading the plane into the sim.

 I am admittedly WAY out of my element here ( and I'm sure Mark will correct any misconceptions), but from what I understand the flashing has to due with what it takes to "draw" and/or "animate" all the parts that make up the aircraft. The more the parts, and the more parts you have that can move, the worse the potential for flashing.

I agree it doesn’t seem to be a VAS issue as I certainly have had plenty to spare (as monitored by FSUIPC) any time the flashing occurs.

The other strange thing about this is it’s intermittent nature. Tonight I made two flights in the latest v1.5b version. On the first flight the flashes started immediately after loading the aircraft and lasting for the 15 minute duration of the test flight. The second flight of 70 minutes duration however went perfectly without a flash in sight! It has also been intermittent with earlier versions of the Falcon probably occurring on about 20% of flights, sometimes immediately on loading the aircraft into the sim and at other times developing at some stage during the flight but on occasions they have disappeared again after a few minutes for no reason. 

Maybe I’m wrong but I would have thought that if the flashing was in some way related to animating the parts, then it would be present all the time and not just be an intermittent feature. However I too am out of my depth here and am open to correction if my understanding and interpretation is incorrect!

Whatever the cause however, I am confident that Flysimware will find a solution for this issue in due course.

Bill

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10 minutes ago, scianoir said:

....

The other strange thing about this is it’s intermittent nature.

..........

Maybe I’m wrong but I would have thought that if the flashing was in some way related to animating the parts, then it would be present all the time and not just be an intermittent feature.

.......

 

Bill -- good points. I don't have an explanation. It may have to do with what parts are used when.

Al

Edited by ark

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Here is a test interior model that can be tested before we release a new version. Al gets no flashing on steam edition. So i think this may works as i made some improvements. Looking forward to your feedback.

F50_INT_TEST.zip

Replace the Falcon50_interior.MDL file located inside the Falcon 50 model folder.

FSX-SE model folder is typically located here: C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\common\FSX\SimObjects\Airplanes\FLYSIM Falcon 50\model
FSX model folder is located here: C:\ .... \FSX\SimObjects\Airplanes\FLYSIM Falcon 50\model

Edited by Flysimware
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Thank you. Will run some test flights using that later today and feed back to you.

Bill

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10 hours ago, scianoir said:

I agree it doesn’t seem to be a VAS issue as I certainly have had plenty to spare (as monitored by FSUIPC) any time the flashing occurs.

The other strange thing about this is it’s intermittent nature. Tonight I made two flights in the latest v1.5b version. On the first flight the flashes started immediately after loading the aircraft and lasting for the 15 minute duration of the test flight. The second flight of 70 minutes duration however went perfectly without a flash in sight! It has also been intermittent with earlier versions of the Falcon probably occurring on about 20% of flights, sometimes immediately on loading the aircraft into the sim and at other times developing at some stage during the flight but on occasions they have disappeared again after a few minutes for no reason. 

Maybe I’m wrong but I would have thought that if the flashing was in some way related to animating the parts, then it would be present all the time and not just be an intermittent feature. However I too am out of my depth here and am open to correction if my understanding and interpretation is incorrect!

Whatever the cause however, I am confident that Flysimware will find a solution for this issue in due course.

Bill

Hi Bill:

I have found that when flashing starts immediately when FSX is loaded, I just shut it down and start over. That seems to work for me.

Rick

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5 hours ago, Wink207 said:

Hi Bill:

I have found that when flashing starts immediately when FSX is loaded, I just shut it down and start over. That seems to work for me.

Rick

Hi Rick,

Maybe that explains why my second flight last night went without a problem. Am going to make a few flights tonight with the replacement model file and see how things go.

Bill

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On ‎1‎/‎11‎/‎2019 at 10:34 AM, scianoir said:

Thank you. Will run some test flights using that later today and feed back to you.

Bill

Just to let you know I have replaced the MDL file as suggested and I have done 4 fairly short test flights (15-30 minutes each), restarting FSX and reloading the Falcon each time, and I have not had any more incidences of flashing as yet.

Bill

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New test as we found some issues with the last test for FSX.

F50_IN_TEST2.zip

Once tested remind us with what sim you tested on please.

Edited by Flysimware

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I installed the latest interior model file and carried out three separate test flights in FSX without any flashing and I thought the issue had been resolved but I am sorry to have to report that on loading the Falcon for a fourth time the flashing reoccurred.

Bill

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Al and i found this new test is stable on P3D, FSX and Steam.

F50_IN_TEST10.zip

We used the model from version 1.3 and updated it. So by going backwards should bypass the bugged scene.

Planning on releasing our next version tomorrow. Please post feedback.

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Haven't had much time this morning but managed to do one short test flight and also carried out two fresh restarts of FSX loading the Falcon each time without any flashing. Of interest is that the GPWS issue which I had reported in a separate thread also appears to have been resolved.

Excellent support!

Bill

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