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astro_liam

Slow to Climb?

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Maybe Im missing something, but she seems so slow to climb! 

 

Power Mode into Climb

Levers in auto

VS Engaged

 

Seems to take an age to get into cruise 


Liam Carbin

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The ATR usually climbs with 1000-1500 FPM, depending on weight or meteo conditions. Also, I recommend to use IAS mode while climbing and VS in descend.

Edited by 46Pilot
Added a recommendation
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38 minutes ago, 46Pilot said:

The ATR usually climbs with 1000-1500 FPM, depending on weight or meteo conditions. Also, I recommend to use IAS mode while climbing and VS in descend.

That would make more sense to use IAS while climbing. Shall certainly give that a try

 

Thank you


Liam Carbin

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3 hours ago, astro_liam said:

Maybe Im missing something, but she seems so slow to climb! 

 

Power Mode into Climb

Levers in auto

VS Engaged

 

Seems to take an age to get into cruise 

I haven't verified yet but the Auto CL power settings may be wrong as in it's too low.   I def agree use IAS to climb (first Carenado plane I think I've ever recommended that for LOL)  You may have to also wait until you reach your cruise altitude to pull them back to Auto (if you do at all)......I'm currently looking into the feasibility of doing a mod with this corrected along with integrating hotel mode and possibly a smaller VAS footprint....However, with my CJ2+ mod, and possibly up coming Phenom 100 mod, I think I may be reaching mod saturation :D.......we'll see.

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Jevon 

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No, you will use Condition Levers in AUTO for all phases of flight and set the engine parameters using PWR MGT rotary selector. CL will be in 100 OVRD (full forward) position only for some abnormal situations (severe icing, TCAS RA, Single Engine Operation in flight etc). Same for Power Levers, in normal situation, the most forward position is the Notch Position (small white arc ~65-68 degrees). There are two more positions, RAMP and WALL, but these are to be used only in abnormal or emergency situations.

Edited by 46Pilot
Added some details
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17 minutes ago, 46Pilot said:

No, you will use Condition Levers in AUTO for all phases of flight and set the engine parameters using PWR MGT rotary selector. CL will be in 100 OVRD (full forward) position only for some abnormal situations (severe icing, TCAS RA, Single Engine Operation in flight etc). Same for Power Levers, in normal situation, the most forward position is the Notch Position (small white arc ~65-68 degrees). There are two more positions, RAMP and WALL, but these are to be used only in abnormal or emergency situations.

Excellent! Thank you, I wasn't to sure on the position of the condition levers for which phase of flight so that is a big help.

 

They really should have included a tutorial flight

 

 


Liam Carbin

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8 hours ago, 46Pilot said:

No, you will use Condition Levers in AUTO for all phases of flight and set the engine parameters using PWR MGT rotary selector. CL will be in 100 OVRD (full forward) position only for some abnormal situations (severe icing, TCAS RA, Single Engine Operation in flight etc). Same for Power Levers, in normal situation, the most forward position is the Notch Position (small white arc ~65-68 degrees). There are two more positions, RAMP and WALL, but these are to be used only in abnormal or emergency situations.

Excellent 🍻.  Thanks for the correction.  Im totally new to the ATR so its all a learning curve for me.  So with the CLs set to auto and using the power management for TO, CLB and CRZ settings would you say the prop rpms and power settings at each power management setting are modeled correctly?  Also can you go more in depth with the PL settings and where to set them in relation to the detents at the different phases of flight?????  Maybe start with what each detent is.  Thanks!!!

Edited by Novej757
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Jevon 

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Power Levers:

- Ground Idle (GI) - to be used only on ground, for taxi purposes.

- Flight Idle (FI) - once airborne, you cannot go lower than this position - it is blocked anyway by the idle gate and is prohibited to override this protection.

- Notch - Normal position of the PL at takeoff.

- Ramp - This position is to be used in some abnormal situations (e.g. go around)

- Wall - To be used only in emergency - to obtain the maximum possible power from the engines - (to get away from a severe windshear situation or imminent EGPWS scenario).

 

Condition Levers:

- Fuel Shutoff (Fuel SO) - Engines are stopped, no fuel delivered to the engines, even with started engaged.

- Feather (FTR) - after starter engaged, between 10% and 19% NH (depending on the residual ITT), you move the CL from Fuel SO to FTR. The engine is started, but the propeller blades are feathered, so you will have no thrust from the engine. Only DC power and air to condition the cabin - This is the case when you use the Hotel Mode, the engine is started, but due to engagement of the propeller brake, the propeller is not spinning.

NOTE:

1. This is possible only for No. 2 engine. If you don't have prop brake installed / unserviceable, or will start No.1 engine, you will still have DC electrical power and Air to cool / warm the cabin, but the propeller with spin at low RPM.

2. When you shutdown the engines, you have to put the CL in FTR position for at least 20 seconds or NP below 15%, to allow the engine to reduce the RPMs and for the blades to feather, before shuting down the engine no.1, or before engaging the prop brake, to avoid burning the brake.

- AUTO - The engine will increase the RPM to nominal RPM and the electronic systems (PEC - Propeller Electronic Control / EEC - Engine Electronic Control) will take of the rest.

- 100 OVRD (Override) - The NP (propeller rotation) will be at 100%. This is to be set in some situations like, for example, a severe icing conditions, stall recovery etc.

 

Power Management Rotary Selector (PWR MGT):

- Take Off (TO)

- Maximum Continuous Thrust (MCT)

- Climb (CLB)

- Cruise (CRZ)

 

After start, for taxi, you will have CL in AUTO, PL in Ground Idle, PWR MGT rotary selector on TO.

For takeoff, you advance the PL to the Notch position and leave them there. (PL Notch - CL AUTO - PWR MGT TO).

After takeoff, at acceleration altitude, all you have to do is to increase the airspeed and select PWR MGT to CLB position, leaving the PL in the notch and CL on AUTO. For the ATR 42, climb speed is 160 kts, and for ATR 72 is 170 kts.

At cruise, you only set the PWR MGT to CRZ and that's all. For fuel saving purposes, or if the engines are a little bit worn out, you can reduce the power levers from the notch position a little bit, either to set the fuel flow to 300 kg/engine, or to lower the ITT. Normally, the ATR burns aprox. 700 kg of fuel in total in the first hour of flight and 600 afterwards.

 

If the engine parameters are all good, once you advance the PL to the notch at the start of takeoff roll, until top of descend, you don't have to get them out of the notch. When you start the descend, you will have to retard them to avoid overspeed scenario. Usually, in descend, if no turbulence encountered or ATC restrictions, the IAS is 230-235 kts or 10 kts below VMO/MMO limit (hatched white and red needle), if it's lower than 235 kts. The only thing you have to touch to control the engine power is the PWR MGT rotary selector, according to the flight phases.

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29 minutes ago, 46Pilot said:

Power Levers:

- Ground Idle (GI) - to be used only on ground, for taxi purposes.

- Flight Idle (FI) - once airborne, you cannot go lower than this position - it is blocked anyway by the idle gate and is prohibited to override this protection.

- Notch - Normal position of the PL at takeoff.

- Ramp - This position is to be used in some abnormal situations (e.g. go around)

- Wall - To be used only in emergency - to obtain the maximum possible power from the engines - (to get away from a severe windshear situation or imminent EGPWS scenario).

 

Condition Levers:

- Fuel Shutoff (Fuel SO) - Engines are stopped, no fuel delivered to the engines, even with started engaged.

- Feather (FTR) - after starter engaged, between 10% and 19% NH (depending on the residual ITT), you move the CL from Fuel SO to FTR. The engine is started, but the propeller blades are feathered, so you will have no thrust from the engine. Only DC power and air to condition the cabin - This is the case when you use the Hotel Mode, the engine is started, but due to engagement of the propeller brake, the propeller is not spinning.

NOTE:

1. This is possible only for No. 2 engine. If you don't have prop brake installed / unserviceable, or will start No.1 engine, you will still have DC electrical power and Air to cool / warm the cabin, but the propeller with spin at low RPM.

2. When you shutdown the engines, you have to put the CL in FTR position for at least 20 seconds or NP below 15%, to allow the engine to reduce the RPMs and for the blades to feather, before shuting down the engine no.1, or before engaging the prop brake, to avoid burning the brake.

- AUTO - The engine will increase the RPM to nominal RPM and the electronic systems (PEC - Propeller Electronic Control / EEC - Engine Electronic Control) will take of the rest.

- 100 OVRD (Override) - The NP (propeller rotation) will be at 100%. This is to be set in some situations like, for example, a severe icing conditions, stall recovery etc.

 

Power Management Rotary Selector (PWR MGT):

- Take Off (TO)

- Maximum Continuous Thrust (MCT)

- Climb (CLB)

- Cruise (CRZ)

 

After start, for taxi, you will have CL in AUTO, PL in Ground Idle, PWR MGT rotary selector on TO.

For takeoff, you advance the PL to the Notch position and leave them there. (PL Notch - CL AUTO - PWR MGT TO).

After takeoff, at acceleration altitude, all you have to do is to increase the airspeed and select PWR MGT to CLB position, leaving the PL in the notch and CL on AUTO. For the ATR 42, climb speed is 160 kts, and for ATR 72 is 170 kts.

At cruise, you only set the PWR MGT to CRZ and that's all. For fuel saving purposes, or if the engines are a little bit worn out, you can reduce the power levers from the notch position a little bit, either to set the fuel flow to 300 kg/engine, or to lower the ITT. Normally, the ATR burns aprox. 700 kg of fuel in total in the first hour of flight and 600 afterwards.

 

If the engine parameters are all good, once you advance the PL to the notch at the start of takeoff roll, until top of descend, you don't have to get them out of the notch. When you start the descend, you will have to retard them to avoid overspeed scenario. Usually, in descend, if no turbulence encountered or ATC restrictions, the IAS is 230-235 kts or 10 kts below VMO/MMO limit (hatched white and red needle), if it's lower than 235 kts. The only thing you have to touch to control the engine power is the PWR MGT rotary selector, according to the flight phases.

Cant thank you enough for this detail explanation! Thank you very much! 

 

 

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Liam Carbin

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3 hours ago, 46Pilot said:

Power Levers:

- Ground Idle (GI) - to be used only on ground, for taxi purposes.

- Flight Idle (FI) - once airborne, you cannot go lower than this position - it is blocked anyway by the idle gate and is prohibited to override this protection.

- Notch - Normal position of the PL at takeoff.

- Ramp - This position is to be used in some abnormal situations (e.g. go around)

- Wall - To be used only in emergency - to obtain the maximum possible power from the engines - (to get away from a severe windshear situation or imminent EGPWS scenario).

 

Condition Levers:

- Fuel Shutoff (Fuel SO) - Engines are stopped, no fuel delivered to the engines, even with started engaged.

- Feather (FTR) - after starter engaged, between 10% and 19% NH (depending on the residual ITT), you move the CL from Fuel SO to FTR. The engine is started, but the propeller blades are feathered, so you will have no thrust from the engine. Only DC power and air to condition the cabin - This is the case when you use the Hotel Mode, the engine is started, but due to engagement of the propeller brake, the propeller is not spinning.

NOTE:

1. This is possible only for No. 2 engine. If you don't have prop brake installed / unserviceable, or will start No.1 engine, you will still have DC electrical power and Air to cool / warm the cabin, but the propeller with spin at low RPM.

2. When you shutdown the engines, you have to put the CL in FTR position for at least 20 seconds or NP below 15%, to allow the engine to reduce the RPMs and for the blades to feather, before shuting down the engine no.1, or before engaging the prop brake, to avoid burning the brake.

- AUTO - The engine will increase the RPM to nominal RPM and the electronic systems (PEC - Propeller Electronic Control / EEC - Engine Electronic Control) will take of the rest.

- 100 OVRD (Override) - The NP (propeller rotation) will be at 100%. This is to be set in some situations like, for example, a severe icing conditions, stall recovery etc.

 

Power Management Rotary Selector (PWR MGT):

- Take Off (TO)

- Maximum Continuous Thrust (MCT)

- Climb (CLB)

- Cruise (CRZ)

 

After start, for taxi, you will have CL in AUTO, PL in Ground Idle, PWR MGT rotary selector on TO.

For takeoff, you advance the PL to the Notch position and leave them there. (PL Notch - CL AUTO - PWR MGT TO).

After takeoff, at acceleration altitude, all you have to do is to increase the airspeed and select PWR MGT to CLB position, leaving the PL in the notch and CL on AUTO. For the ATR 42, climb speed is 160 kts, and for ATR 72 is 170 kts.

At cruise, you only set the PWR MGT to CRZ and that's all. For fuel saving purposes, or if the engines are a little bit worn out, you can reduce the power levers from the notch position a little bit, either to set the fuel flow to 300 kg/engine, or to lower the ITT. Normally, the ATR burns aprox. 700 kg of fuel in total in the first hour of flight and 600 afterwards.

 

If the engine parameters are all good, once you advance the PL to the notch at the start of takeoff roll, until top of descend, you don't have to get them out of the notch. When you start the descend, you will have to retard them to avoid overspeed scenario. Usually, in descend, if no turbulence encountered or ATC restrictions, the IAS is 230-235 kts or 10 kts below VMO/MMO limit (hatched white and red needle), if it's lower than 235 kts. The only thing you have to touch to control the engine power is the PWR MGT rotary selector, according to the flight phases.

Thanks for the explanation. What would Carenado do without the after sales support provided by its customers (lol)! With the PL in the notch position (white mark), CL at auto and PWR MGT set to T/O, I'm only getting 60% torque at take off. Given what you've described above, I'm assuming this is a fault of the Carenado modelling and not normal, is that correct?

 

Cheers.


Murray Dreyer

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@mdreyer, 60% is way too low and I severely doubt that the white marks on the Carenado ATR even remotely match the RW power position and I'm pretty sure that ramp and wall aren't modelled.

I'd expect that the 'notch' PL position is simply fully forward.

However, these are the actual maximum values you should see at S.L. and at ISA conditions.

T/O = 90% torque, 100% prop

MCT & GA = 100% torque, 100% prop

CLB = 109.8% torque, 82% prop

CRZ = 108.3% torque, 82% prop 

 

Edited by FDEdev
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57 minutes ago, FDEdev said:

@mdreyer, 60% is way too low and I severely doubt that the white marks on the Carenado ATR even remotely match the RW power position and I'm pretty sure that ramp and wall aren't modelled.

I'd expect that the 'notch' PL position is simply fully forward.

However, these are the actual maximum values you should see at S.L. and at ISA conditions.

T/O = 90% torque, 100% prop

MCT & GA = 100% torque, 100% prop

CLB = 109.8% torque, 82% prop

CRZ = 108.3% torque, 82% prop 

 

Thanks - yep, I did some reading up and those are the figures we should see. I'm also not seeing any change in torque when changing on the power management system either. They (Carenado) did model a similar system on the Fokker 50 quite well, so I don't know why they haven't on this.


Murray Dreyer

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No, the engine parameters are correctly simulated. Check the status of the systems, the ATR is "dark cockpit" concept, you don't have to have any light on during normal ops. Make sure gust lock is released, PEC and EEC are ON, CL on AUTO, PWR MGT set on TO.

Edited by 46Pilot

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So, at which PL position (pwr management TO) do you get 90% torque? At the pedestal notch position/marking or at full throttle?

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