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Correct, you can't precisely forecast it, but I was thinking about severe turbulence which can lead to loss of control, judging by what you said. Could be my mistake for not being too clear.

Anyway, I don't know what type of aircraft are you flying in real life, if flying is your job, but for the ATR, a pitch of approx. 4-5 degrees is sufficient to cope with the temporary situation, to have a safe speed for climbing and a rate of climb between 500-1000 FPM. This will help you to go through the turbulent area without large pitch changes or loss of airspeed, thus maintaining also a "decent comfort" onboard until things get easier.

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Posted (edited)

So are you saying takeoff is performed at 68 percent torque ?

Seems very low.

Some guy was saying CLs should be max and takeoff torque should be in the yellow zone.... some 90 percent.

I'm inclined to believe that the middle PL notch is for cruising only.

Edited by GeeBee

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Posted (edited)
53 minutes ago, GeeBee said:

So are you saying takeoff is performed at 68 percent torque ?

No. He didn't. Read again. He wrote 65-68 degrees, that's the PL angle, not torque.  Torque should be 90% and prop RPM 100%.

There is no 'middle' notch since there's only one notch.

Edited by FDEdev

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Correct, 65-68 degrees of PL. In real life, you feel the notch when reached, it's like a gate, something like that... CL on max could be on 42-300/72-200 series, there is a different engine control, but not anymore valid for the 500 series.

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Im loving all these threads with all this info @46Pilot is providing us on the ATR.  I didnt realise its throttle system was so Airbus like.  

I'm still stuck on Hotel mode. (Mind you I haven't tried yet)  I noticed in the other thread you said:

"Prop brake engagement procedure is:

1. Gust lock - ON

2. Condition Lever - FUEL SO or FTR position

3. Blue Hydraulic Pressure - Available

NOTE: If you don't have any engine started, you have to press the AUX HYD PUMP button, located on the pedestal, to have blue hydraulic pressure. If you have one engine running, you don't have to press it, because the aux hyd pump is already engaged in single engine ops.

4. Prop Brake Switch - Select ON.

After all of this, make sure you have prop brake light on. There are two locations where you can find this information: next to the prop brake switch and onthe MEMO Panel, located on the center panel, under TRIM Indicator."

So if I have no engines running I should first engage gust lock, press AUX HYDRO on pedestal, propbrake switch to on, look for prop brake light then......? (or are these out of order too)

Do I hit the engine start button?  Is it number 2?  Will the engine start with its CL in Fuel SO

I'm trying to engage Hotel mode without ever spinning the prop. Thanks for the help.  

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21 minutes ago, Novej757 said:

  Will the engine start with its CL in Fuel SO

Since Fuel SO means fuel shut off, hopefully not! 😉

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1 hour ago, FDEdev said:

Since Fuel SO means fuel shut off, hopefully not! 😉

Exactly this is why I am confused when he says, "Condition Lever - FUEL SO or FTR position......" 😁

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8 minutes ago, Novej757 said:

Exactly this is why I am confused when he says, "Condition Lever - FUEL SO or FTR position......" 😁

Fuel SO when the engine in stopped during cockpit preparation for the flight, or FTR when the engine is already running, e.g. after landing, when you reach the stand. Propeller brake is installed only on no.2 engine. I've described the order of the actions in the previous post.

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6 hours ago, FDEdev said:

No. He didn't. Read again. He wrote 65-68 degrees, that's the PL angle, not torque.  Torque should be 90% and prop RPM 100%.

There is no 'middle' notch since there's only one notch.

When I takeoff, the CL is in the Auto position notch, and the PL is in the notch about midway - 68%. The switch is set to TO..... but the engines are showing around 60 to 70 percent torque, not 90.

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Could you do a movie covering the entire cockpit by panning around? There is for sure something deactivated. (EEC, PEC - these two on center panel,  MFC - on the overhead panel, takeoff bugs not set properly - on torque indicators etc)

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It is possible I am getting the numbers mixed up. I've only had a couple of takeoffs.

Will take a closer look soon.

I don't do 'movies' .... I was banned by the judge, after the last 'incident' !

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You can do and send it to me, not to the forum. I cannot help you otherwise. Or, in carenado's folder, there are the procedures to be followed, follow them strictly and it should be ok.

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Posted (edited)

I've found on youtube two clips describing the Power Levers Positions.

 

 

Every time the PL stops in any position shown in the videos, there is something like a gate and you have to apply a small amount of force to go over that stop (position).

Sorry if I shouldn't post them here on the forum...

Edited by 46Pilot
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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, 46Pilot said:

Fuel SO when the engine in stopped during cockpit preparation for the flight, or FTR when the engine is already running, e.g. after landing, when you reach the stand. Propeller brake is installed only on no.2 engine. I've described the order of the actions in the previous

Let me ask a different way, does the engine have to already be on with propeller spinning before the hotel mode can be activated?  If not, if no engines are on and i want to start the engine in hotel mode other than the aux pump and everything else you listed is the #2 engine start essentially the same from there......i get taxiing in and turning it on that way. I want to know how the guys that use if for the planes first flight of the day use it PRIOR to departure.  Thank you for your patience with me.....

Edited by Novej757

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No, you can engage the propeller brake in two different situations.

1. Engines are off and you may need DC power and / or air. In this case, you first engage the prop brake before starting the engine;

2. After landing, when the aircraft reaches the stand, the engine is on with the propeller spinning, the crew will engage the prop brake (engine is still on, but the propeller is stopped from spinning) until the ground crew connect the GPU to the aircraft, afterwards the cockpit crew will shutdown the engine.

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, 46Pilot said:

You can do and send it to me, not to the forum. I cannot help you otherwise. Or, in carenado's folder, there are the procedures to be followed, follow them strictly and it should be ok.

See here - https://youtu.be/5sPFaXAAXx4

You can clearly see (despite the awful video quality) a few things.

The CL is always at max forward for takeoff and climb.

The PLs are in the second notch (just before the red band) for takeoff and climb. If you use a throttle quadrant, you can feel the second notch, just before the red line.

This gives 90 to 100 percent torque for take off, and once FADEC is set to CLB, it goes to around 80 percent.

Once at cruise, the PLs and CLs are brought back to the central notch / auto position which gives around 60 percent torque.

If you only advance the PLs to the central notch, you only get 68 percent torque, which is woefully insufficient to take off and climb out.

This also exactly what happpens in the Carenado on my system.

Edited by GeeBee

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Posted (edited)

The plane in the video is an ATR 42-300 says the description which has different engines (PW120) and they aren't even FADEC controlled AFAIR.

60% torque for cruise is way too low. Should be well above 100% in case of the -500. 

Some goes for climb power which should be well above 100%.

Btw, you can't set  FADEC to climb, FADEC controls the engine.

 

It's really strange that you and 46Pilot are seeing this big differences and I don't think that the FADEC switches in the Carenado ATR make any difference concerning operation and available power.

Edited by FDEdev

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Posted (edited)

The posted link is not relevant and the ATR does not have FADEC. There are major differences between older series and -500, so the materials based on -200 or -300 used on -500 will not have a great success.

I am already working on some documentation, but first I'm waiting for an answer from Carenado, to see if they want to collaborate or not. Afterwards, I will either send them the docs, to create a patch, tutorial, flows in the cockpit, abbreviated checklists based on daily operations etc, beside removing the existing bugs, or I will put the docs here on the forum, in a new topic, but they will not be accurate in the sim due to existing bugs, just for orientation or general explanation for how the ATR should be flown.

Soon I will create a new topic with all the bugs I've found so far, including a new ones since my first post, where the other forum members can share what they have also discovered.

I really want to make the ATR from Carenado as real as I can, because in real world is a great aircraft, it is really enjoyable to fly and would be a shame to have it so unrealistic in the sim (there are a ton of bugs to be removed, sounds to be changed, some engine parameters are wrong etc).

Just hoping for the best and Carenado team to accept to work together to create a better version of this aircraft!

Edited by 46Pilot
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2 minutes ago, 46Pilot said:

I am already working on some documentation, but first I'm waiting for an answer from Carenado, to see if they want to collaborate or not. Afterwards, I will either send them the docs, to create a patch, tutorial, flows in the cockpit, abbreviated checklists based on daily operations etc, beside removing the existing bugs.

Chances are zero that they will create tutorials, flows etc. Their product development schedules are way too tight for more than basic bug fixes.

I'm very curious which bugs you have found! Can you list them here?

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@FDEdev I was editing the post while you posted. There is another topic where I have posted the bugs, since then I've discovered much more bugs, although the list is not updated in the respective topic.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Just read the list and I can assure you that 90-99% of the things you mentioned are not going to be fixed. They don't do anything outside the FSX/P3D SDK, which e.g. means that no Carenado/Alabeo turboprop will ever have external power. Internal lighting is limited etc...

I don't understand these two:  

1. NP values are too high for the AUTO positions of the Condition Levers

2. really good modelled the engines power and PWR MGT behaviour.

If 2 is correct, how or why is 1 wrong?

 

Even more puzzling is this:

Regarding the power levers, there is a small white arc (between 65-68 d). That is the takeoff notch. With PL in that position, the torque should be 90% and normal engine parameters for takeoff. 

I thought this is already the case?

 

 

Edited by FDEdev

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Posted (edited)

Of course the link is relevant.... it shows an actual pilot flying an actual ATR.

And it matches my Carenado perfectly.

I cannot get more than 68 percent thrust by placing the Power levers in the centre notch.

All SOPs that I have read state you need 90 percent torque for takeoff.

The only way to achieve this in the Carenado is to go to the second notch.... just gefore the red line.

Also, most SOPS for companies, always use 100 percent CL for takeoff.

Sorry my friend, but a real world video is all I need. Especially when it works in the sim, exactly !

If Carenado have modelled it incorrectly, then it makes no difference. Placing both levers in the auto/centre notch for takeoff, is giving you less than 70 percent power, and if you are anything but empty, you will be climbing out at 500 fpm at best.

Edited by GeeBee

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NP values are too high for the FTR and AUTO positions of the Condition Levers. In FTR detent, the NP should be around 15%, and in AUTO detent, the NP should be stabilized at 71%.

Once airborne, the power ratio and rate of climb matches the performance of real aircraft, not exactly, but not big differences. Also, when you switch the power management rotary selector from TO to CLB, for example, the engine parameters changes as they should, again, not exactly, but is ok, you can live with that.

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4 minutes ago, GeeBee said:

Also, most SOPS for companies, always use 100 percent CL for takeoff.

Don't know which SOPs you are referring to. Nevertheless there should be absolutely NO difference in torque with the CL in AUTO or at 100% since AUTO  = 100% with the pwr management selector at TO or MCP.

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Posted (edited)

@GeeBee if you want to fly the aircraft with the CL in 100% OVRD, go ahead, but this is not correct. If you have found some docs on the web, as I have already mentioned earlier, for the -200 or -300 series of the ATR, they are not good for the -500 series, because there major differences. 

"Of course the link is relevant.... it shows an actual pilot flying an actual ATR." - No, it is not, because is not a -500 series. -500 have a different engine and engine management.

Edited by 46Pilot

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