Yup... this is badly needed. I am talking lot more that what we see in those screenshots.It need not be individual trees X n. It can be grouped or something... Flight scenary and Fly Tampa have started using some 2d trees.. that look pretty good when you are sitting on the ground.Atleast provide it for 3rd party vendors..so they can easily add trees and forests and other wooded areas.This is an area that would enhance FSim a lot across the board.Edited for spelling:

Yes, I believe there was already another thread on the subject (started by me??). I pointed out that the most important thing is "illusion" of trees and high resolution terrain may just be enough to provide it (someone provided a great example of a pic with forrest texture). It would be pointless to keep adding autogen trees - first this is going to have a serious impact on performance, second - you don't really need to have every single tree in the forest represented in 3D. Michael J.http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/pmdg_744F.jpghttp://sales.hifisim.com/pub-download/asv6-banner-beta.jpg

>Yes, I believe there was already another thread on the>subject (started by me??). I pointed out that the most>important thing is "illusion" of trees and high resolution>terrain may just be enough to provide it (someone provided a>great example of a pic with forrest texture). It would be>pointless to keep adding autogen trees - first this is going>to have a serious impact on performance, second - you don't>really need to have every single tree in the forest>represented in 3D. I think a good compromise would be using a method similar to that used in the IL-2 series. The forests are made of sort of simplified trees, not fully 3D, but give IMHO a very nice effect, and probably have a smaller impact in performance.Marco

>I think a good compromise would be using a method similar to>that used in the IL-2 series. Could someone provide a link or a pic?Michael J.http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/pmdg_744F.jpghttp://sales.hifisim.com/pub-download/asv6-banner-beta.jpg

Well, like you said before. Groups of trees. No matter how you look at them (unless you crash), you will never see most of the tree. The outside tree's would have a texture, the tops would, and that's it. If done right, it'd be a low polygon count with a carefully designed bitmap. I was attempting to create something like that for FS2004, with no luck. You need an artist! Once the model's were designed (for different parts of the forest) the textures would be the hard part. But, it seems VERY doable, even with FS2004. FSX it would be easier to implement, as your groud texture can hide more of the shortcomings of the model. Now, if only I can make a rolling tumbleweed model! ;)

>The outside tree's would have a texture, the tops>would, and that's it. I agree with this idea. Not being FS expert I don't know whether it is doable or not but the general approach sounds right to me.Michael J.http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/pmdg_744F.jpghttp://sales.hifisim.com/pub-download/asv6-banner-beta.jpg

I think trees should be created as follows:0m to 99m -> 4 Polygons or more to represent the "X" style of 2 quads together100m to 299m -> 2 Polygons or more to represent a single quad300m to Infinity -> either a box with top down textures representing a bunch of trees or just the texture on the groundThe limits I am not sure of so they are only a guess. At least this way FSX wont have to draw 4 polygons per tree when you are far away and they can hardly see them anyway.I don't know what logic FS2004 already uses so I may be way off.

How about this? This is from Links LS 2003 which is owned my Microsoft.Is this asking for too much?:)

One thing to think about is this, there are simmers that fly into small clearings in the trees and NEED the trees to look real at this perspective, altitude and angle. Using a large textured polygon will not work for this. I would just be happy if it could be optimized to have twice the autogen at this point or redesign the actual tree from a crossed plane to something more tree shapped. Either way, trees and realism are a big importance to low and slow flyers as myself.Regards, MichaelKDFWhttp://www.calvirair.com/mcpics/mcdcvabanner.jpgCalVirAir International

That looks pretty good looking straight ahead but there has to be something in how that is rendered and what is rendered in fs. Perhaps that is a static 2D bitmap? What happens when one looks at that from another viewing angle? I bet one could not simply because the "world" ends at a certain point before the tree line so my thought is that this background is simply that, a non interactive background bitmap which you cannot do if your asking for a forest in 3D for FSX.[h4]Randy J. Smith[/h4]AMD 64 4000+|ASUS K8V DELUXE|SAPPHIRE ATI X800XT PE|MUNCHKIN 3200|80 gig SATA|DELL 1905FP 19" LCD|TRACKir PRO|PFC JEPPESEN MOONEY YOKE|CH PRO PEDALS|

LS 2003 - is it some sort of golfing simulation?As had been stated here many times on these forums it is very unfair to compare level of details in a game that recreates a 10 sq. miles of terrain to game with 100,000,000 sq. miles. It is a completely different kind of simulation calling for different tricks and shortcuts. Michael J.http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/pmdg_744F.jpghttp://sales.hifisim.com/pub-download/asv6-banner-beta.jpg

>into small clearings in the trees and NEED the trees to look>real at this perspectivethen small clearling could preserve the detail on the "inside".>twice the autogen at thisTwice the autogen would still be grossly inadequate to give the correct feel of a forest.Michael J.http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/pmdg_744F.jpghttp://sales.hifisim.com/pub-download/asv6-banner-beta.jpg

>LS 2003 - is it some sort of golfing simulation?>As had been stated here many times on these forums it is very>unfair to compare level of details in a game that recreates a>10 sq. miles of terrain to game with 100,000,000 sq. miles. It>is a completely different kind of simulation calling for>different tricks and shortcuts. >>Michael J.>http://www.precisionmanuals.com/images/forum/pmdg_744F.jpg>http://sales.hifisim.com/pub-download/asv6-banner-beta.jpgYes.. it is a golf simulation and I know its unfair.. But we can always ask!You know... kind of remind ourselves as how much further to go.:)

In this screenshot from FSXcutpastewww.avsim.com/pages/0106/FSX/fsx009.jpgThe bottom left is OK.But it needs to be without the bald spots and the far away moutains with dotted trees look pathetic.:)This ain't shabby.cutpastewww.avsim.com/pages/0106/FSX/fsx021.jpg

>>I think a good compromise would be using a method similar>to>>that used in the IL-2 series. >>Could someone provide a link or a pic?Here some pics :) :http://www.uni-koblenz.de/~cisleib/content...l2/grab0006.jpghttp://www.uni-koblenz.de/~cisleib/content...l2/grab0007.jpghttp://www.uni-koblenz.de/~cisleib/content...l2/grab0008.jpghttp://www.uni-koblenz.de/~cisleib/content...l2/grab0009.jpghttp://www.uni-koblenz.de/~cisleib/content...l2/grab0015.jpghttp://www.uni-koblenz.de/~cisleib/content...l2/grab0020.jpghttp://www.uni-koblenz.de/~cisleib/content...l2/grab0046.jpgThey use a mix of "full" 3d for single trees, and the other "3d-ish" technique to draw "packed" trees in forests.Marco