Other Flight Sim Forums in Denial

[mSparks 2,132]

2 minutes ago, azulkb said:

flight simulator doesn't bring anything new

Because it doesn't

The new hardware it has been shown on does.

Edited December 4, 2019 by mSparks

[flym. 20]

3 minutes ago, mSparks said:

new hardware

Which hardware?

[mSparks 2,132]

2 minutes ago, flym. said:

Which hardware?

Tensor Cores 

[azulkb 302]

Asobo: The Internet connection makes it possible to have a world of this size with as much definition. In fact it can even make things a little more difficult because it's a lot of data to display and we have an incredible level of detail. We have 20 levels of detail, from the smallest to the largest. As soon as there are things a little distant, we can then lower the level of detail, which helps the graphics cards a lot.

Here [on the stand of X019], we have a relatively big machine but we shoot in native 4K, ie without upscale. Clouds for example are also rendered in 4K, with a level of detail in ultra. Me for example, I do not have config as big since I take care of everything that is aerodynamic so I need it to be very responsive. I have a 1060 and I play in full HD or sometimes in 1440p. Here [on the demo for the X019] on average we are at 45 fps here and in 4K, and we aim for 4K 60 fps on these big machines. Then it's a game that suffers very little upscaling, I personally do not see the difference, and it often doubles the number of frames per second without affecting the level of detail. After we have 5 or 6 levels of detail with different options inside.

[flym. 20]

1 minute ago, mSparks said:

Tensor Cores 

I do not know what a Tensor Core is... I want to know, where they officially said, which hardware was used at their closed/ public events... I just saw some monitors, yokes, throttles and stuff

[mSparks 2,132]

5 minutes ago, flym. said:

I do not know what a Tensor Core is... I want to know, where they officially said, which hardware was used at their closed/ public events... I just saw some monitors, yokes, throttles and stuff

https://www.gamepressure.com/newsroom/32-gb-ram-rtx-2080-ti-used-to-run-microsoft-flight-simulator-on-x/z21449

A Tensor core is what makes the graphics shown in the MS videos possible.

Introduced first in the $10,000 nvidia Tesla GPUs

recently introduced to prosumer hardware in their RTX cards.

Edited December 4, 2019 by mSparks

[azulkb 302]

2 minutes ago, mSparks said:

https://www.gamepressure.com/newsroom/32-gb-ram-rtx-2080-ti-used-to-run-microsoft-flight-simulator-on-x/z21449

A Tensor core is what makes the graphics shown in the MS videos possible.

Introduced first in the $10,000 nvidia Tesla GPUs

recently introduced to prosumer hardware in their RTX cards.

for 4K native with ultra hight detail, at 45frames in alpha, 60 frames in release.

Asobo Boss say he can use a 1060 in full  HD, very smooth, and keep all detail. 

Myself, i have only HD monitor, so....

[flym. 20]

Wait a second... 'according to the post MFS was running on' 

This has not been proven... I asked for an official statement. All else would be speculation, see?

[mSparks 2,132]

7 minutes ago, azulkb said:

60 frames in release.

AFAIK AMD GPUs don't have an Tensor core equivalent, XBOX is touted to use AMD GPUs. This would be my guess at whats holding up the tech alpha.

2 minutes ago, flym. said:

Wait a second... 'according to the post MFS was running on' 

This has not been proven... I asked for an official statement. All else would be speculation, see?

And I've already said as much. although it was deleted from the org because I was laughing at the reddit source provided.

Edited December 4, 2019 by mSparks

[ca_metal 2,091]

8 minutes ago, mSparks said:

https://www.gamepressure.com/newsroom/32-gb-ram-rtx-2080-ti-used-to-run-microsoft-flight-simulator-on-x/z21449

A Tensor core is what makes the graphics shown in the MS videos possible.

Introduced first in the $10,000 nvidia Tesla GPUs

recently introduced to prosumer hardware in their RTX cards.

No it's not. They said they are not using any kind of Ray tracing and there's no indications they are using any kind of the RTX tech for now. Also the sim is running (for now) on Directx11.

One of the devs (the guy responsible for the physics) stated he's using a GTX 1060 at 1080p/1440p with really good FPS. And a GTX 1060 (Pascal) doesn't have tensor cores.

That said, I believe at some point they will update the sim to use all those features from Nvidia.

[mSparks 2,132]

Just now, ca_metal said:

not using any kind of Ray tracing

That's RT Cores

[ca_metal 2,091]

1 minute ago, mSparks said:

That's RT Cores

Sure, but my point is they never said they are using any kind of the RTX Tech (RTX is how Nvidia call their new features introduced with the Volta Archtechiture)

I mean, no sign they are using DLSS, for example.

Edited December 4, 2019 by ca_metal

[flym. 20]

See? You have nothing official to contribute as we all do not (in some terms). Come back, when you had your hands on it

[MattNischan 3,904]

41 minutes ago, mSparks said:

But I would like truly like to learn why saying such things is arrogant and embarrassing, shows how we are in denial.

I think the big issue here is the default stance being taken.

It is arrogant to make the assumption that MSFS is a smoke and mirrors vaporware show while not applying that same skepticism towards other sims that have yet to deliver certain things. That I think is part of the communication issue here.

The other arrogance I think is to assume that what we're seeing is doctored. There are actual people who went to the event that have firsthand experience of flying the pre-alpha sim (such as Froogle and the like). Other statements like asking why MS has only shown seconds long videos to hide some kind of data transfer problem show that you haven't actually consumed the available media, yet are offering firm sounding statements that contradict the available evidence. The "cities" video, for example, has seriously long shots minutes long of single flights over extremely complex environments, with quite minimal, if any hiccups.

I'm no particular sim platform fanboi, I've used FS 5 through FSX, P3D (every version), X-Plane. I've been flying almost entirely X-Plane for a long time, it's a fantastic sim. But the reality is that without all the infrastructure going along with MSFS, the CDN, the absolutely massive amount of photogrammetry data, cloud based algorithmic passes with machine learning, X-Plane is not going to be in the same scenery league. That's just the reality. The aerodynamics also looks to be potentially more advanced, especially airflow modeling over terrain. Certainly the cloud technology is next generation.

X-Plane can absolutely catch up in aircraft environments, aero, and cloud tech. I think that's well within Ben and Austin's wheelhouse. The question is time and resources.

As far as these wild technology statements go, I've done a good deal of game development. The developers have specifically stated that they are not using raytracing, and I see no evidence that they are, nor do I see any evidence of advanced machine learning Tensor only rendering techniques. All of these techniques are available in commodity game engines like Unity and Unreal at 1080p/60 with last gen graphics cards. In fact, I believe there was a recent interview stating that one of the devs doesn't have some crazy beefy machine and runs 1080p/60 on the sim as it is now. There's nothing at all special about the rendering methods they're using, and in fact, basically the same style of pipeline is already what X-Plane uses (a deferred rendering PBR pipeline). The graphical difference being seen is way, way less about hardware specs and way more about having a dedicated team of in-house artists that are able to adjust the physical materials properties and textures for best effect. Nothing fancy, no "install RTX or else" type magic at all here, guaranteed. Tensor cores have nothing to do with anything.

-Matt

Edited December 4, 2019 by MattNischan

[mSparks 2,132]

2 minutes ago, MattNischan said:

MSFS is a smoke and mirrors vaporware

I think that is likely, until I see for something more concrete, giving my reasoning why I think that.

4 minutes ago, MattNischan said:

The other arrogance I think is to assume that what we're seeing is doctored.

Not doctored, just dishonest for anyone to imply you are going to see these kind of graphics

On anything but similar hardware.