I think there is an issue a new sim is announced and suddenly third party developers are getting dumped on, when without them Microsoft would not have a going concern ( flight simulator) to come back to it would have died years ago.  

 

14 minutes ago, simbol said:

Please read 

 

That you consider that a post   spread "false " information is one thing, you can respond to it and you do. You are welcome to do it. That you request to lock threads is something else entirely. You do that out of the goodness of your heart, of course. Not your business interest.

Edited December 4, 20196 yr by domkle

15 minutes ago, mSparks said:

RTX2080Ti -> somewhat.

GTX1080Ti and below -> no. no space for anything particularly significant.

The limit that stops more drawing from the likes of current XP11 builds is loading them into super fast storage.

XP11 can draw much more than is available "out of the box" (there is even freeware UHD mesh, and you can edit scenery down to inch accuracy), but:

* It wont run on most peoples machines (even less than have VR)

* Even on machines it can run on then suffer huge stutters/load pauses which is forbidden by the FAA (and are awful even if it wasn't).

XP11 graphics engine has been rewritten from scratch for 11.50.

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=X-Plane-11.50-Has-Vulkan

We literally just finished beta testing a large portion of that rewrite a couple of weeks ago. Waiting in angst for the full rebuild to beta test, due to drop any day now.

Well, one of the devs explicitly stated he has been playing and testing on a 1060.

Your knowledge of game engines is not very good.  Loading objects into 'super fast storage' has nothing to do with the limiting factor.

Modern graphics cards have at least 4gb of memory.

A large part of computing time is working out what to render to the screen, where to render and then rendering it.  Having many levels of detail is a big part of rendering lots of objects.  Rendering full textures on objects far away absolutely kills performance.  Even though the texture is scaled to size the gpu is still handling that full texture.  Having many varying levels of detail is the key as well as efficient loading and unloading of assets.  And that's not even starting on efficient post processing.

As one of the developers said.  Immediate transitioning between the levels of detail to keep a constant frame rate is key. Whether your internet hand with slows down or your gpu is chugging, an immediate drop in detail will retain your framerate

Modern game engines can deal with hundreds of thousands of objects no worries at all.  Efficiently sharing the workload over cpu and gpu cores is difficult on a brand new engine, let alone trying to refine an old engine without breaking any legacy code.

Fortunately Asobo have a crack team of developers with full access to microsofts own team of developers who developed DirectX.  These aren't your self taught unity developers..  I'm sure they know all the low level tricks in the book.

2 minutes ago, domkle said:

 

That you consider that a post   spread "false " information is one thing, you can respond to it and you do. You are welcome to do it. That you request to lock threads is something else entirely.

I did because it went into a cycle of negative discussions, personal attacks, etc. that was against AVSIM terms and conditions. If a mod followed my advise and locked it down was for a reason, when I am wrong they tell me so, in fact I have received warnings as everyone else here. This is what moderators on this place are for.

Please feel free to continue without involving me here Dominique. 

S.

 

48 minutes ago, mSparks said:

RTX2080Ti -> somewhat.

GTX1080Ti and below -> no. no space for anything particularly significant.

The limit that stops more drawing from the likes of current XP11 builds is loading them into super fast storage.

XP11 can draw much more than is available "out of the box" (there is even freeware UHD mesh, and you can edit scenery down to inch accuracy), but:

* It wont run on most peoples machines (even less than have VR)

* Even on machines it can run on then suffer huge stutters/load pauses which is forbidden by the FAA (and are awful even if it wasn't).

XP11 graphics engine has been rewritten from scratch for 11.50.

https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=X-Plane-11.50-Has-Vulkan

vulkan is a low-level API. Which will allow more performance.  It still has to be used. It's not a low-level API can handle a lot of things, but you have to develop them.

we're not going to argue for hours but for me the real innovations of flight simulator 2020 are: the correction of world data  and bing map by an AI, fluid mechanics, voxel raytracing, a rendering on the screen directed by physical phenomena (humidity, pressure, temperature). Clouds appear realistic because they are generated by calculations whose parameters are those of physics. You have a rainbow and its echo simulated as in reality. Rain as in reality.

The other advantage is to have this set in the vanilla version.

So it's not just an API story. But also a history of development. You can also use vulkan to rotate on a cube. Don't reduce everything to an API. but seriously do you think a small team, as talented as it is, can make an AI like  Azure AI ? And have the data center budget that goes with it?

Now you prefer X-plane, and you have no confidence or taste for Microsoft. That is your right. But I don't see who you're trying to convince and why. X-plane will continue to live, as I have said in other forums, it is more than enough for schools that have invested hundreds of thousands of dollars, to keep the solution, and anyway it will remain the best simulator on Linux, and Mac. In addition there are helicopters, whereas in MS2020 there will be none, at least at the beginning.

 

important edit : I am not sure you have read many about azure AI. In bing map, we have in same place a picture taken in winter, another with some building hidden by a cloud and another in summer. A puzzle. Azure AI can take all the data and rebuid the landscape. The result is very accurate. It's not related to dx11 or vulkan, and it's innovative.

Edited December 4, 20196 yr by azulkb

14 minutes ago, Theboot100 said:

Modern graphics cards have at least 4gb of memory.

Memory does not help you "offload compute to the GPU"

cores do.

Specifically, for most of what we have seen in their videos and demonstrations, Tensor cores, and

 

Edited December 4, 20196 yr by mSparks

3 minutes ago, mSparks said:

Memory does not help you "offload compute to the GPU"

cores do.

Specifically, for most of what we have seen in their videos, Tensor cores, and

 

You just said!

The limit that stops more drawing from the likes of current XP11 builds is loading them into super fast storage.

Dont you understand what your writing???  That super fast storage is the gpu's memory, and that is not a limiting factor on how many objects are drawn.  With graphics cards having at least 4 gigs of memory there is plenty of room to hold textures for thousands of objects

Look at how much is going on and drawn in a modern AAA game

 

22 minutes ago, simbol said:

I did because it went into a cycle of negative discussions, personal attacks, etc. that was against AVSIM terms and conditions. If a mod followed my advise and locked it down was for a reason, when I am wrong they tell me so, in fact I have received warnings as everyone else here. This is what moderators on this place are for.

Please feel free to continue without involving me here Dominique. 

S.

 

It is not in my culture to call out and ask authorities to censor any speech, even contrary to what I think, except for abomination like racial slurs and the like of course. We obviously differ here.

6 minutes ago, Flamingpie said:

 

 Asking for a lock in a topic never is a good or nice or wise things to do.  

Indeed. We are referring to a thread locked at the request of Raul in the P3D forum and Rob's post up above which asks almost explicitly the same for this thread. 

Edited December 4, 20196 yr by domkle

29 minutes ago, domkle said:

 

That you consider that a post   spread "false " information is one thing, you can respond to it and you do. You are welcome to do it. That you request to lock threads is something else entirely. You do that out of the goodness of your heart, of course. Not your business interest.

I respect you as a fellow AVSIM member and regular poster, Dominique. However, you clearly do not know Raul (Simbol) very well if you think that he does things purely because of his "business interests". I met Raul just over a year ago at Cosford 2018, and I can honestly say that he is one of the kindest, most respectful, and most genuine guys that I have ever met. He bends over backwards to help people (both with his own products, and also regarding flight simulation in general), and he is not afraid to post his own opinions on a wide range of flight simulation topics.

In short, there are lots of "colourful characters" on the internet who talk BS and cause trouble for the sake of it, but Raul is most definitely not one of them.

Edited December 4, 20196 yr by Christopher Low

13 minutes ago, Theboot100 said:

The limit that stops more drawing from the likes of current XP11 builds is loading them into super fast storage.

There are two ways of drawing things.

From data - everything you draw is stored somewhere, so flying from say EGLL to EHAM you have to get all the data along the way from where it is stored into graphic memory.

XP11 currently mostly does this, drawing more is limited by how fast you can get that data into the GPU.

MSFS2020 as shown in the videos is likely doing this -> which in my humble opinion is why all the videos are never more than a few seconds in length, if you want to see what it looks like after those few seconds, open up google maps in Seattle and click the 3d button in the bottom right then wander around a bit.

Alternatively

Procedurally - grass and clouds are the most common example of this now (stream processors). you don't store every blade of grass or every droplet of water in a cloud, you create them from some algorithm. -> CPU/GPU compute.

Edited December 4, 20196 yr by mSparks

10 minutes ago, Christopher Low said:

I respect you as a fellow AVSIM member and regular poster, Dominique. However, you clearly do not know Raul (Simbol) very well if you think that he does things purely because of his "business interests". I met Raul just over a year ago at Cosford 2018, and I can honestly say that he is one of the kindest, most respectful, and most genuine guys that I have ever met. He bends over backwards to help people (both with his own products, and also regarding flight simulation in general), and he is not afraid to post his own opinions on a wide range of flight simulation topics.

In short, there are lots of "colourful characters" on the internet who talk BS and cause trouble for the sake of it, but Raul is definitely not one of them.

You know what Christopher, I  believe you and it makes me sad to see Raul exhausting the capital of sympathy he has.

He took exception once because I called him a small dev. We, French, love the little guy trying to do big. It was a compliment in my mind. Maybe not very well formulated. That he has business interests behind what he says, does not shock me . The real outrage is that he asked to lock a not very good thread, for a very bad reason, he disliked what was being said.

EDIT Thank you for your appeasing contribution, Christopher.

Edited December 4, 20196 yr by domkle

6 minutes ago, mSparks said:

There are two ways of drawing things.

From data - everything you draw is stored somewhere, so flying from say EGLL to EHAM you have to get all the data along the way from where it is stored into graphic memory.

XP11 currently mostly does this, drawing more is limited by how fast you can get that data into the GPU.

MSFS2020 as shown in the videos is likely doing this -> which in my humble opinion is why all the videos are never more than a few seconds in length, if you want to see what it looks like after those few seconds, open up google maps in Seattle and click the 3d button in the bottom right then wander around a bit.

Alternatively

Procedurally - grass and clouds are the most common example of this now (stream processors). you don't store every blade of grass or every droplet of water in a cloud, you create them from some algorithm. -> CPU/GPU compute.

The reason Google maps takes time to load up whole your zooming around is... (wait for it) bandwith!  It has nothing to do with sending the textures to your graphics card.

As for the rest of your comment, I give up. Clearly you think your knowledge is a lot more than what it is and your never wrong.

23 minutes ago, Flamingpie said:

You seem to think MSFS will be a sort of superdeluxe Google maps flight sim.. it won't.

True that, google maps is already less buggy

Edited December 4, 20196 yr by mSparks

Haha! I mean, you're obviously not to be taken seriously. Clever trolling though.

11 hours ago, byork said:

I have no info.

But if they were to feature a virtual co-pilot, it would be a simple one meant for the most casual of users, and nothing like what FS2Crew tries to do.

I hope now with the new engine and tech we will get a 3d model in the seat next to us 😉

The copilot needs to push buttons and reach for knobs. Also I want to see the stewardess actually opening the door and entering the cockpit. 

You know with new tech its not just getting easier for you guys our expectations also rise 😉

Edited December 4, 20196 yr by DaWu