Meanwhile i´am a little further with my investigations on this issue and the sad part of the story is, it seems it´s more an issue of UTL rather then FLAI. There are many more of us, having this CTD´s related to the combination of FLAI and UTL, but also same behavior with a combination of UTL and other AI-packages. The conclusion seems to be, that UTL in fact can´t handle over a specific quantity of different AI aircrafts and their liveries. It´s hard to say what number triggers the UTL client to struggle, or if it´s a combination of different issues like number of AI-AC, amount of textures to handle etc. or all together. 

To clarify the specific scenario of this issue: I have installed the actual FLAI package and injected those into UTL via an injection-tool called "AI2UTL". This tool does absolutely nothing to UTL itself or to it´s configurations. So it doesn´t harm the UTL integrity. All it does is creating a new repaints.xml which contains the Ai´s references additionally to the ones from UTL (as it´s done like if you create your own ai reference via the UTL interface) just in a batch. Also the injector scans the models of the ai´s for being compatible with the SIM you use (FSX or P3D) and excludes incompatible files. The original repaints.xml isn´t touched unless you rename the new created one as the xml to use. Of course i´ve made a backup of my original xml. With this way FLAI injected i have CTD on every single flight. Sometimes already at the gate after 5 minutes, sometimes later while in flight. If i restore the original xml for UTL - no CTD!

In another thread about the FLAI UTL injection where many others talking about CTD´s with UTL. Some may have eliminated the CTD´s by turning down the number of possible repaints some still have CTD´s occasionally, even with less injected ai´s. While my own test, also with the AI-Lights Reborn Pro, i´ve got several CTD´s and the process logs gave information about an unexpected handling of utlclient.exe which caused the P3D CTD. All this together gives me the intention that in fact it´s an UTL issue at least.

I´am now at a point where I take into account not to spent my expensive spare time in investigating what exactly causes UTL to crash P3D, only to find out some nice day that it´s not solving. Maybe this is just a kind of limitation I have to live with.

On the other hand I´am seriously think about the option to leave UTL as it is and turn onto AIG´s AItraffic. If this would turn out that I have no CTD´s anymore together with having up-todate AI and all that for free, it´s really hard to find arguments anymore to stay on UTL which is anyway not really supported over the last time.

I´am sorry that the topic headline is a little bit misleading. Instead of "solved" it´s need to be "culprit addressed".

Edited February 28, 20206 yr by Jim Young
Culprit addressed was added to title.

That's most likely not the cause. AI traffic programs provide a list of AI with the time and the plan. The sim does the rest. Just like NTDLL.DLL is not a faulty module, other items shown in a crash report are just as likely not to be at fault.

Instead of using varying models, any of which can cause the crash, use just one model known to be working OK.

xml files should contain the proper paths and these can be incorrectly formed.

Testing with another traffic injector and the same aircraft would be a good idea before calling out that UTL is at fault.

I would install the sim in the stock location. Install UTL and AI models with no added scenery or any other dlls added to the system and test then. Before my time is used up.

DLLs and bad models crash the system.

A traffic program provides the list. Some of those may be dormant ready to wake up at a certain time, others might be already in the sky part way into their flights, some might be already live and about to set off.

The number of aircraft that can be injected at an airport is decided by the simulator based mainly on number of parking locations available, what is arriving and departing. That process ignores 'too many aircraft' no matter what type of client injects them.

11 minutes ago, SteveW said:

That's most likely not the cause. AI traffic programs provide a list of AI with the time and the plan. The sim does the rest. Just like NTDLL.DLL is not a faulty module, other items shown in a crash report are just as likely not to be at fault.

Instead of using varying models, any of which can cause the crash, use just one model known to be working OK.

xml files should contain the proper paths and these can be incorrectly formed.

Testing with another traffic injector and the same aircraft would be a good idea before calling out that UTL is at fault.

I would install the sim in the stock location. Install UTL and AI models with no added scenery or any other dlls added to the system and test then. Before my time is used up.

DLLs and bad models crash the system.

Thank you for you suggestions, i really appreciate it. I have the feeling it was misunderstood what i´ve wrote. I have drawn a picture of what turns out in fact, or how it´s just appear. In combination with the other informations i´ve got from users with the same issue and (very important) with same setup combination of UTL+FLAI+AI2UTL. Honestly i have NOT made the assumption that "UTL is at fault", because that wouldn´t be true anyway. I´am using it for long time and was happy with it because my scope lied on other things than AI-traffic. But i think UTL is doing more control within P3D because it controls the whole portion of AI and disables the P3D internal handling of this. This is by the way nothing weird or wrong. 

But it seems it turns out that UTL is just overcharged with the handling of a specific amount of ai especially in europe or it can not handle the better models or textures or what ever, who knows. It´s not my intention to judge this. But it would be unfair as well to shift the reason onto FLAI where it´s maybe not responsible for the CTD´s.

What i meant is, that i can live with and accept such limitations of UTL as long i´am aware of those what would prevent me from wasting my time finding issues where i want to spent my time in "flying". UTL runs perfect without the injection of FLAI and though i can decide to cope with it, or to switch to another Traffictool. 

Seems fair. Remember though that the switching to another injector might solve the issue due to something very simple like not choosing the same models.

I am speechless. I have forever been able to fly ONLY IN EUROPE without the exact same NTDLL CTD. I cannot wait to try this fix. What exactly is the file location you removed?

3 minutes ago, SteveW said:

Seems fair. Remember though that the switching to another injector might solve the issue due to something very simple like not choosing the same models.

Thank you Steve. And yes, affirmative, but as long i won´t be surprised with CTD´s but having more accurate and up-do-date ai beside, i am happy.

The intention of bringing this topic on air, was to let anyone know, who might asking himself why he has CTD´s, that THIS (AI-Traffic) can be one cause. It´s just a matter of information and what every individual is taking from it is left on them. And it heads up, that it can and will be very time consuming and frustrating to find the culprit and get rid of it, but shall no one deter to try and work on this. (Without those people, and i think you are one of these too, many nice and usefull things just wouldn´t exist in our "second life"😉  

I too suffer from having the CTD but only in Europe! I can go anywhere else in the world but Europe is the Bermuda Triangle in my sim. I’m hoping you can find a solution. Have you tried running it in compatibility mode for windows 8 like someone else said?

45 minutes ago, BerndB said:

Thank you Steve. And yes, affirmative, but as long i won´t be surprised with CTD´s but having more accurate and up-do-date ai beside, i am happy.

The intention of bringing this topic on air, was to let anyone know, who might asking himself why he has CTD´s, that THIS (AI-Traffic) can be one cause. It´s just a matter of information and what every individual is taking from it is left on them. And it heads up, that it can and will be very time consuming and frustrating to find the culprit and get rid of it, but shall no one deter to try and work on this. (Without those people, and i think you are one of these too, many nice and usefull things just wouldn´t exist in our "second life"😉  

Sorry to hear you are having problems.

I use UTL+FLAI+AI2UTL and do not have frequent CTDs. I fly inside and outside of Europe. NTDLL CTDs are notoriously difficult to track down, but if this was definitely an issue with UTL and FLAI then I would expect to have issues also. I'm using the latest FLAI version (v21). When I last injected the models in January this year I set maxrepaints to 5,000, addOnlyMissing to FALSE, and I generally fly with AI traffic set at 50%.

There is nothing I can see in the UTL support forum about frequent CTDs. You said that a lot of other people are having issues - how do you know this?

I'm not sure how the AI models work but could it be a conflict with AI models installed by another addon package?

If you use virus protection, have you excluded FLAI and UTL from realtime virus protection or tried switching it off?

FWIW, I use FLAI on Vatsim with vPilot and fly a lot in Europe and see many different liveries and never had a CTD with it. Lends credence to it being a UTL specific issue.

30 minutes ago, LEdwards said:

Sorry to hear you are having problems.

I use UTL+FLAI+AI2UTL and do not have frequent CTDs. I fly inside and outside of Europe. NTDLL CTDs are notoriously difficult to track down, but if this was definitely an issue with UTL and FLAI then I would expect to have issues also. I'm using the latest FLAI version (v21). When I last injected the models in January this year I set maxrepaints to 5,000, addOnlyMissing to FALSE, and I generally fly with AI traffic set at 50%.

I have not tested yet to set the maxrepaint setting down to 5. I´ve started with the default 20 and tried with less down to 10. May if i set it to 5 it won´t CTD. 

30 minutes ago, LEdwards said:

There is nothing I can see in the UTL support forum about frequent CTDs. You said that a lot of other people are having issues - how do you know this?

From the topic about AI2UTL here in AVSIM 

 

30 minutes ago, LEdwards said:

I'm not sure how the AI models work but could it be a conflict with AI models installed by another addon package?

If you use virus protection, have you excluded FLAI and UTL from realtime virus protection or tried switching it off?

I have no other ai packages installed and no virus protection at all. (on the P3D machine)

Edited February 27, 20206 yr by BerndB

5 minutes ago, B777ER said:

FWIW, I use FLAI on Vatsim with vPilot and fly a lot in Europe and see many different liveries and never had a CTD with it. Lends credence to it being a UTL specific issue.

That's hard to say. There are those that say they have no issues with FLAI and equally there are those that have no issues with UTL. Why not draw a line through those two and look for something else?

I mentioned earlier you add a dll or a model to crash the sim.

If UTL or whatever other traffic program sends an AI schedule to the sim and activates the schedules and all is OK, then it's likely to be all OK. In any case an exe simconnect client would have to try hard to crash the sim whereas a dll only need a tiny slip up. A missing or incorrect texture on a model might CTD it. The same models might never be selected by two different schedulers.

And if the setting of Win8 compatibility helps to prevent the CTD that lends credence to models/textures at fault in some way.

Please have in mind this thread is not to blame someone as THE GUILTY ONE FOR CTD`S. There are soooo many other ones. (reasons for CTD not guility ones😁) At least Microsoft or LM are the ones to blame, why this CTD has to exist or why WIN10 dll´s or P3D are so hypersensitive on such simple things like missing textures or anything else.

Just imagine: someone like me who´s in this hobby for decades since the days of FS 5.1 and never ever had CTD even not those well known out of memory ones, suddenly has to fight with it since mid of January now, on each single flight done the past weeks, just to find out that i just need to put the original UTL repaints.xml in place again and everything is fine again. This is really a revelation😲 

Edited February 27, 20206 yr by BerndB