Someone said that certain areas might be OK, other might CTD. Lending credence to the idea that different paints are chosen in different regions.

And then there are airport addons supporting parking codes. that might lead to a certain paint being selected, where others don't have it.

Since it could also be scenery did anyone experiencing a CTD try their AI traffic in the stock sim with no addon scenery and no attached dlls (i.e. complex user aircraft)?

 

Edited February 27, 20206 yr by SteveW

14 minutes ago, SteveW said:

And then there are airport addons supporting parking codes. that might lead to a certain paint being selected, where others don't have it.

Since it could also be scenery did anyone experiencing a CTD try their AI traffic in the stock sim with no addon scenery and no attached dlls (i.e. complex user aircraft)?

 

That´s a good point Steve. I agree there are soooooo many dependencies between all these interacting stuff, that sometimes it seems impossible to trace down the real culprit. It could be that UTL in this particular situation is just only the poor one who brought the bad news to the king, but not really the culprit. It can be everything else related to the AI in a certain environment or a combination with other not ai related.

But i´am so happy, that i can easily get rid of my CTD issue by replacing the repaints.xml, because it means at least everything else which causes CTD on others seems ok on my side...😁

Edited February 27, 20206 yr by BerndB

As soon as I run AI2UTL and replace with the resulting .xml, I get a CTD almost immediately after start-up. Not sure if it's a ntdll.dll one, though. I restore the .xml, and everything is back to normal. When that happened, I blamed the tool AI2UTL and/or the maybe corrupt .xml it generates. Never revisited (even though some UTL models are hideous).

2 hours ago, Scott Albrecht said:

I too suffer from having the CTD but only in Europe! I can go anywhere else in the world but Europe is the Bermuda Triangle in my sim. I’m hoping you can find a solution. Have you tried running it in compatibility mode for windows 8 like someone else said?

Scott, the only suggestion i can give is to put the original repaints.xml back in place for UTL to use it and try out if you have still CTD. If not you may have the same issue with the FLAI UTL combination.

Content error reporting can be enabled in Prepar3D.cfg:

	[MAIN]
	ContentErrorReporting=1
	

Shows errors loading files or textures. Sometimes something problematic might appear in there and hint to a certain model or paint.

On 2/27/2020 at 6:10 PM, BerndB said:

It can be everything else related to the AI in a certain environment

I had lots of CTDs when using FLAI in LorbyLiveTraffic, which in one mode is using the same injection method as UTL does. It was caused by a certain model, but only when using specific flight plans - but even then, not every time, just most of the time. After I replaced the model with one from MT6 the CTDs went away.

These things often are a combination of several factors, and it practically impossible to pinpoint the exact instance of the crash. Especially when you recreate the same situation and the crash doesn't happen again or not every time. 

ntdll is particularly tricky IMO, since it is a Windows kernel API. When this module shows up in the crash report, then obviously the program accessed the API and rubbed it the wrong way. In this particular instance that seems kind of odd, since the ntdll is rather low level. AFAIK it is used by anti virus programs and the likes, to do things seriously outside the (user) box.

Best regards

Edited February 28, 20206 yr by Lorby_SI

On 2/28/2020 at 10:55 PM, Lorby_SI said:

I had lots of CTDs when using FLAI in LorbyLiveTraffic, which in one mode is using the same injection method as UTL does. It was caused by a certain model, but only when using specific flight plans - but even then, not every time, just most of the time. After I replaced the model with one from MT6 the CTDs went away.

Lorby, it seems you have found the real culprit. As someone mentioned i have injected via the AI2UTL less AI repaints (5 per AC). I was able to make a leg without CTD but today i had again a CTD right after the Situation started up and when the message Pop up "...UTL Client initialize" CTD. Then i have removed the FLAI A320 from the Folder and injetected the repaints again. I made today 6 Hours of flying without any CTD. So it seems that in fact the model of this A320 is somewhere corrupted. I will test it again by increasing the number of repaints to see whats then. If The SIM wouldn´t CTD anymore the issue is in fact this specific FLAI model and not UTL.🤨 

8 hours ago, BerndB said:

Lorby, it seems you have found the real culprit. As someone mentioned i have injected via the AI2UTL less AI repaints (5 per AC). I was able to make a leg without CTD but today i had again a CTD right after the Situation started up and when the message Pop up "...UTL Client initialize" CTD. Then i have removed the FLAI A320 from the Folder and injetected the repaints again. I made today 6 Hours of flying without any CTD. So it seems that in fact the model of this A320 is somewhere corrupted. I will test it again by increasing the number of repaints to see whats then. If The SIM wouldn´t CTD anymore the issue is in fact this specific FLAI model and not UTL.🤨 

In my tests it seemed to be only the IAE variant. That might also explain why there are more crashes when flying in Europe? 

But the actual reason is unclear to me. One attempt at creating it would crash the simulator, the next attempt, using the same flight plan, doesn't crash. Maybe there has to be more than one of those models in the sim, or a specific combination of flight plans will trip up the AI traffic logic. It could be as easy as wrong parameters in the aircraft.cfg or as hard as an anomaly in the .mdl or .air files.

Best regards

On 2/29/2020 at 5:40 PM, BerndB said:

Lorby, it seems you have found the real culprit. As someone mentioned i have injected via the AI2UTL less AI repaints (5 per AC). I was able to make a leg without CTD but today i had again a CTD right after the Situation started up and when the message Pop up "...UTL Client initialize" CTD. Then i have removed the FLAI A320 from the Folder and injetected the repaints again. I made today 6 Hours of flying without any CTD. So it seems that in fact the model of this A320 is somewhere corrupted. I will test it again by increasing the number of repaints to see whats then. If The SIM wouldn´t CTD anymore the issue is in fact this specific FLAI model and not UTL.🤨 

BernB how can i get the default repaints.xml for UTL? Do I simply just reinstall UTL? I guess then for a temp fix I could just switch around the repaints.xml when going to Europe correct?

Edited March 2, 20206 yr by Scott Albrecht

8 hours ago, Scott Albrecht said:

BernB how can i get the default repaints.xml for UTL? Do I simply just reinstall UTL? I guess then for a temp fix I could just switch around the repaints.xml when going to Europe correct?

Scott, assuming that you have used the tool AI2UTL and you have overwritten the original "repaints.xml" without making a backup before, then yes. 

The AI2UTL creates an additional xml file in the UTL\Data folder. Keep the original one by renaming it like repaints.bak before you rename the AI2UTL created one to the repaints.xml. In doing it like this, you can easily return to default in case of an issue, by just replacing the modified xml with the original from UTL without the need of a re-install.

Edited March 2, 20206 yr by BerndB

On 3/1/2020 at 8:20 AM, Lorby_SI said:

In my tests it seemed to be only the IAE variant. That might also explain why there are more crashes when flying in Europe? 

But the actual reason is unclear to me. One attempt at creating it would crash the simulator, the next attempt, using the same flight plan, doesn't crash. Maybe there has to be more than one of those models in the sim, or a specific combination of flight plans will trip up the AI traffic logic. It could be as easy as wrong parameters in the aircraft.cfg or as hard as an anomaly in the .mdl or .air files.

Best regards

Oliver,

i remember that my Process Monitor Log was flooded with references to this AI model 3 seconds before CTD. I tried to trace down the issue of this model with AI-Manager but it says the models are all ok. But it also tells me that there are two textures "used but not found" but i haven´t found which textures these are. This could be immanent because if P3D is calling for a specific texture file which is missing this is one of main reasons for ntdll CTD´s as i know.

But it worries me, that even a "Crack" like you haven´t found the root cause.😲 Wouldn´t it an idea to build into your AiAircraftTweaker the capability to automated finding those kind of issues...😁

1 hour ago, BerndB said:

Wouldn´t it an idea to build into your AiAircraftTweaker the capability to automated finding those kind of issues..

It would be possible to find issues in the "static" simobject configuration. But the simulator already does that, with the content error log. What we can't find is a combination of issues, static ones and runtime events alike (for example like the AI movement profile in the sim, where the simulator figures out what the model actually has to do). We don't know the rules, so we can't figure out if something is indeed wrong or not. Only the LM developers could do that. This matter is way to complex to find it in a simple thing like the model configuration. No amount of work put into this from our end will yield any results. Besides, simulator objects with an actual flaw can't even be created in the sim, it throws an Exception 22, stutters briefly, and then carries on. IMHO things like missing textures etc. cannot be the cause. Or maybe only in combination with other things, the simulator stuck in a loop and exceeding stack boundaries, etc. Would be mildly interesting what the memory consumption and CPU load was right before the crash. Maybe I should add that to LLTX.

This looks more like a low level processing error. Without a developer logging output, a stack trace and a debug run, we don't stand any chance of finding the cause.

Your best option is to switch to trouble-free AI models. I never had any crash problems with AIG OCI in my LLTX app.

Best regards

Edited March 2, 20206 yr by Lorby_SI

Just to let the ones know who are interested: One reason for CTD in P3D with the modul ntdll is in fact an wrong or corrupted AI Aircraft (or a missing but needed file like texture, effect etc.within this aircraft). In my case it turned out that it is definetly the FLAI A320 and may one specific model of the IAE variant of it. 

Now, after many flights within Europe and Germany with this model excluded but a lot of other traffic generated by UTL with the FLAI package, i have no CTD anymore and my P3D runs stable as i was used to.

May this helps others who are desperate for finding a reason of ntdll CTD.

I'm having this very same issue. The CTDs happen on the climb out of EGLL, and started after injecting FLAI to UTL. It also happens when selecting UTL reset from the menu at EGLL, it doesn't happen in less crowded sceneries, like my local MROC airport.

Edited May 10, 20206 yr by Pipo_SJO