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hesynergy

What Bodner boards replace All TM HOTAS Warthog Boards?

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Posted (edited)

I’m ambitious.  Tired of Windows seeing neither expensive HOTAS Warthog throttle OR joystick.   I asked Leo Bodnar:

1. 

I am thinking of totally replacing the wiring of my ThrustMaster  HOTAS Warthog. While adore the realism and heft of the Dual F-15 throttle and F-16 joystick,  I refuse to be a hostage of Thrustmaster‘s support  and their technology. This is the third major breakdown in 11 years. This time my Win10 I7-6700K/GTX1080TI gaming/edit rig refuses to recognize both the throttle AND joystick.

Considering that;
1. On the flight stick there are 19 “action buttons plus an 8 position hat, and; an X,Y Hall Effect module (acting like variable resistors- potentiometers ) sensing the joystick pitch and roll.

2. On the dual F15 Throttle, there are 17 “action buttons, plus 1 mouse hat with button, plus 1 8way POV hat., and
2A. The dual F15 Throttle base has 15 “action buttons” Plus one trim wheel And the Two Y position Hall Effect modules for the two Throttles, (Wireless pots)

There are anywhere from 55-60 switches, and  sensors, depending on who’s counting, therefore;

3. I believe there is a windows limit on how many “buttons/switches” are allowed on any one “device”, so I believe that there might need to be at least two of your boards outputting to two separate USB cables.  Have I got that right? You must have had a similar request In the 11+ years the HOTAS Warthog has been out. 

Please give me your sage thoughts/caveats and advise. 

I am sending vibes of health, protection and healing to you and your loved ones.

Simon of the Bodnar USB board folks: Suggested:“We do a 64 button input box, but there’s no analogue, I suggest a BU0836X and bbi-32


Regards
Simon - Tech Support”
 
I asked,

Simon, wouldn’t one BU0836X for the throttle and one BU0836X for the joystick work? I’m assuming that the Hall Effect acts like a potentiometer, therefor is seen as a analog device, And since the  BU0836X  appears to accommodate all the inputs I need as below, 

 

Inputs

8 analog inputs with 12-bit (4096 steps) resolution each
32 button / 16 rotary encoder inputs
8-way "point-of-view" hat switch input
 
One each BU0836X‘s should be able to handle  all the 32 switches and two Hall Effect inputs for each throttle,And output STD USB,  and another BU0836X should be able to take 19 digital and two (x,y)Hall Effect inputs I need on the joystick...am I right? 
 
Has anyone on Avsim or Xplane forums done this?
 
thanks,
Chas
 
Thanks,and have a healthy, challenging and fruitful day!
Has anyone
Chas
Edited by hesynergy

My first sim flight simulator pD25zEJ.jpg

 

Take a ride to Stinking Creek! http://youtu.be/YP3fxFqkBXg Win10 Pro, GeForce GTX 1080/i7-6700K CPU OCd,16 GB RAM,3x1920 x 1080, 60Hz , 27" Dell TouchScreen,TM HOTAS Warthog,TrackIR5,Saitek Combat Rudder Pedals.

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I use a selection of the Bodnar boards, 9 in total, in my cockpit. They all work very well, assigned and calibrated through FSUIPC. 

The BU0836X would be the best choice for your requirements because it provides all the functions and has 'clip in' wiring which is held securely in place. This is important for portable units like the Warthog. Just make sure there is enough space inside the throttle and stick bases for the board, clear of any moving parts.  The usb cable plugs into the end of the board, so it would be useful if the board can be positioned and fixed so its usb socket is accessible through an opening in the casing 

I don't have the Thrustmaster units so I'm not sure about their internals, but you may (probably will) find that some of the existing wiring needs extending so I assume you have the necessary skills, and a suitable soldering iron. It's always easier, and safer, to add more length to an existing wire than to try replacing it completely from a switch, It's too easy to melt a delicate plastic switch which probably can't be replaced. Also if you join wires it's best to cover the joint with heatshrink tubing for support and insulation. Finally remember to tidy up all wiring and secure with small zip ties to keep everything in place.

If everything can fit in, then it should not be too difficult, but if you are wiring in any leds you need to watch the polarity. Voltage will probably be standard 5v from the usb, so no change there. The hall effect sensors are wired exactly the same as pots. There are some instructions on the Bodnar site.

Good luck with it, and if it all works please post a follow up.

 


John B

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hallo Chas

Since you are asking about Xplane forums, I suppose you are using X-Plane. Then the following aspects of using the controllers with X-Plane are absolutely important. I will explain with a simplified example.

Take a simple on-off switch as an example, e.g. a light switch. In one position, it is permanent on, the other position is permanent off.
The physical switch would have two contacts, When switching "on", the contacts are closed. In the controller the wire connected to the signal input is then put to GND ground. The controller sends out a switch "on" command to Windows. When putting the switch to "off" , the contact is opened and the controller sends a switch "off" command to Windows. So Windows sees one switch that is on or off.

X-Plane IS DIFFERENT!! You need to assign a switch on function, and separately you need to assign an off function. In order to do that, the controller would have to assign two signal channels: one for on, and another one for off.

That can be done using a switch with 3 contacts: one ground GND contact, and two signal contacts for each switch position. Then two channels are used in the controller. One channel is in X-Plane assigned to the "on" function, and the other channel for the "off" function.

There are software solutions for X-Plane that are described on the X-Plane forum. But since you are coming from a standard Hotas, I suppose you have not gone that more complicated way.

Remark: it is different for a momentary switch like a trim switch that uses a toggle function in X-Plane. No problem there.

If you are using X-Plane, I suggest you look at these problems carefully.   

 

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FlyHirundo Rudder Pedal and Yoke
Designed and manufactured in Switzerland

Email: info@flyhirundo.com
Website: under construction

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4 hours ago, hesynergy said:

an X,Y Hall Effect module (acting like variable resistors- potentiometers )

Are you sure that Melexis 90333 sensors used in Warthog are connected as analog potentiometers? I think they are used in digital mode, being specifically programmed to interface the control PCB's. If this is the case, you'll not be able to use Bodnar boards to process the axis signals- only the buttons and the throttle "INCR-DECR" axis which is a regular pot. Have you checked the signals from the sensors?

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Posted (edited)
8 hours ago, SergeyPe said:

Are you sure that Melexis 90333 sensors used in Warthog are connected as analog potentiometers? ......Have you checked the signals from the sensors?

No, I am not sure….re the signals, I don’t have an o-scope...is there another way to check the output?

Bodnar said that, “ HE devices are interpreted as analog,”

I took my Throttle completely Apart to send off the board. The sensors in the Throttle are definitely HE devices..there is a rotating magnet in each handle, and the devices are solid state, not wire wound or otherwise pots....not sure about the flight stick.


...maybe nor here... I posted this so the diligent readers can correct my assumptions and point my nose in the right direction… Or  not.

thanks for your response!
Chas

Edited by hesynergy
Open circuit betwixt brain and the finger tip

My first sim flight simulator pD25zEJ.jpg

 

Take a ride to Stinking Creek! http://youtu.be/YP3fxFqkBXg Win10 Pro, GeForce GTX 1080/i7-6700K CPU OCd,16 GB RAM,3x1920 x 1080, 60Hz , 27" Dell TouchScreen,TM HOTAS Warthog,TrackIR5,Saitek Combat Rudder Pedals.

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7 hours ago, Biggles2010 said:

I use a selection of the Bodnar boards, 9 in total, in my cockpit. ...

The BU0836X would be the best choice for your requirements because it provides all the functions and has 'clip in' wiring which is held securely in place. ...

 

Thanks Biggles!

Chas


My first sim flight simulator pD25zEJ.jpg

 

Take a ride to Stinking Creek! http://youtu.be/YP3fxFqkBXg Win10 Pro, GeForce GTX 1080/i7-6700K CPU OCd,16 GB RAM,3x1920 x 1080, 60Hz , 27" Dell TouchScreen,TM HOTAS Warthog,TrackIR5,Saitek Combat Rudder Pedals.

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Posted (edited)

I've done some investigation on the matter of sensors used in Warthog- they are definitely working in digital mode which means that there is no way to connect them to Leo's boards (or any other similar controller with analog inputs). And they are not Hall Effect (typically this name is erroneously used for all magnetic sensors)- they are so-called magneto-resistive sensors. As opposed to "normal" Halls that can be used for a direct replacement of analog pots these are much more complicated and should be programmed to provide an analog output. In short- there is no simple way to change the Warthog boards without sensor replacement which is quite a tedious job if you don't have the appropriate skills.

BTW, I would suggest that you check the reason for your PC not to recognize both devices. I have a similar W10- I7700K-1080 rig and never had any problems with Warthog throttle that I'm using for a couple of years. Could it be that your device has got an old firmware/ driver? The latest one is from 2018, it's probably worth checking yours. USB ports can also be the reason.

Edited by SergeyPe
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2 hours ago, SergeyPe said:

I've done some investigation ... In short- there is no simple way to change the Warthog boards without sensor replacement which is quite a tedious job if you don't have the appropriate skills.

BTW, I would suggest that you check the reason for your PC not to recognize both devices. I have a similar W10- I7700K-1080 rig and never had any problems with Warthog throttle that I'm using for a couple of years. Could it be that your device has got an old firmware/ driver? The latest one is from 2018, it's probably worth checking yours. USB ports can also be the reason.

It’s not Just the throttle Sergey, It’s both throttle & Stick.  I’ve tried out the WH software on my game machine and laptop.  Nada ...neither device seen in X-Plane or device Mgr.  One day...no problems...next day..BOTH...GONE.

I’m beginning to wonder if it’s coincident with the Win10 update.

thanks for your input buddy!

Chas

 


My first sim flight simulator pD25zEJ.jpg

 

Take a ride to Stinking Creek! http://youtu.be/YP3fxFqkBXg Win10 Pro, GeForce GTX 1080/i7-6700K CPU OCd,16 GB RAM,3x1920 x 1080, 60Hz , 27" Dell TouchScreen,TM HOTAS Warthog,TrackIR5,Saitek Combat Rudder Pedals.

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On 5/27/2020 at 9:13 AM, SergeyPe said:

Are you sure that Melexis 90333 sensors used in Warthog are connected as analog potentiometers?

How the hell did ... https://imgur.com/gallery/Ab3YGLB ? I searched and somehow ended up on the MELEXIS site...but absolutely no correspondence betwixt 90333 and what I have in my hand...how’ you find it?

see also the next shot..extracted from my stick...Minus the screw

 

Chas

sending preventive and healing vibes to you, y’all and yours


My first sim flight simulator pD25zEJ.jpg

 

Take a ride to Stinking Creek! http://youtu.be/YP3fxFqkBXg Win10 Pro, GeForce GTX 1080/i7-6700K CPU OCd,16 GB RAM,3x1920 x 1080, 60Hz , 27" Dell TouchScreen,TM HOTAS Warthog,TrackIR5,Saitek Combat Rudder Pedals.

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hallo Chas

Related to my previous post, see following website:
https://www.desktopaviator.com/Pages/Boards/index.html

I have not tried out these controllers, and I am not associated with that company. But in principal it could provide a solution to the specific problems with X-Plane, and that is also mentioned on their website.

regards
Jozef


FlyHirundo Rudder Pedal and Yoke
Designed and manufactured in Switzerland

Email: info@flyhirundo.com
Website: under construction

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9 hours ago, oemlegoem said:

hallo Chas

Related to my previous post, see following website:
https://www.desktopaviator.com/Pages/Boards/index.html

I have not tried out these controllers, and I am not associated with that company. But in principal it could provide a solution to the specific problems with X-Plane, and that is also mentioned on their website.

regards
Jozef

X-Plane's lack of support for button-up events can be circumvented in software. I use Leo Bodnar boards (I think eight at the last count) and I use SPAD.neXt for programming buttons and switches in X-Plane 11 just like in P3D. You do have to buy it, of course!

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MarkH

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Core i7-7700K / 32Gb DDR4 / Gigabyte GTX1070 / 1080p x 3 x weird / Win7 64 Pro

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11 hours ago, MarkDH said:

X-Plane's lack of support for button-up events can be circumvented in software. I use Leo Bodnar boards (I think eight at the last count) and I use SPAD.neXt for programming buttons and switches in X-Plane 11 just like in P3D. You do have to buy it, of course!

Thanks y’all!


My first sim flight simulator pD25zEJ.jpg

 

Take a ride to Stinking Creek! http://youtu.be/YP3fxFqkBXg Win10 Pro, GeForce GTX 1080/i7-6700K CPU OCd,16 GB RAM,3x1920 x 1080, 60Hz , 27" Dell TouchScreen,TM HOTAS Warthog,TrackIR5,Saitek Combat Rudder Pedals.

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