We Have Been Through This Before!

[CFIJose 5,485]

My friends and fellow simmers "we have been through this before."

I wrote this in a thread somewhere else but it's worth repeating:

I went from FS9 to FSX to P3D v4 (basic platform to fully loaded.)

From XP9 to XP10 to XP 11 (basic platform to fully loaded.)

I know that I'm not the only one that bought the platforms but also the add-ons to go with it. I also had to buy expensive computer upgrades, only to get minimal performance increases. I also bought flight controllers such as yokes & sticks, pedals, throttle quadrants, goflight modules, and even track Ir. Some have ventured into cockpit building, VR, & 4K GSYNC monitors. I'm still on a 1080P. 😀 For me its been an expensive hobby.

FS2020 lasted a day on my SSD for the following reasons:

1) I probably need the fastest CPU/RAM/GPU/M2 SSD combination to run FS2020. Heck there might not even be a system that can run this sim on ultra right now.

2) My 90mps internet connections is probably not enough to run this "game" smoothly.

3) I probably need new flightsim controllers. Even if they were available to buy, there's no guarantee that they will work with the new sim.

4) The sim took too long to load to the main menu & included more advertising than I needed to see while the sim loaded.

5) Setting up my controllers was no easy task. My throttle would not work and had to rely on a mouse and keyboard to simulate a flight. I don't fly on my sim primarily with a mouse & keyboard.

6) Even though I was familiar with the graphics settings, at my home airport KBKV, anything above medium settings yielded a stuttery sim. Panning was not smooth and while airborne on the simple Bonanza I noticed trees that looked like blocks. Then the sim paused for a while and I thought it had locked up. Eventually it resumed, but it just did not feel good. It was not FUN!

7) Based on the few hours that I spent, the issues that I experienced (most have been brought up on this forum) my conclusion is that this "game" was rushed out the door and it's still in beta. My prediction when I first heard the MS announcement was that it would take 10 years for the sim to mature, has now been confirmed. We will need "patience" & "optimism" yet hope that the dev team listens to the suggestions of the flight sim community and fixes what needs to be fixed. According to most beta testers what I've read is that they did NOT listen and fix what was suggested. So the sim was released in a beta state.

I conclude with this quick story.

Back in the early 90s I was working for a Multi-Op DJ company where they performed private showcases at various venues in order for Wedding DJs get booked for events. I competed with 3 other DJs by putting on a 20 minute show with the hope that some of the customers would choose me as their Wedding DJ. At the end of the show while I was breaking down my gear, the Manager came up to me so I asked him, "how did I do?" and his answer was "you have potential." I thought to myself, wait my first job was at the World-famous Copa back in 1985, I already have an honorary Bachelor's Degree, and a Master's from the top ranking school in my field, I've already performed at multiple wedding reception and received positive feedback, and you say that I have POTENTIAL. How dare this guy, "I said to myself!"

Today, at the age of 55, I understand now what he meant. Even though I was very good, maybe even great, I had to give my performance the TLC that it needed if I wanted to one day be one of the greatest DJs to ever walk the surface of the earth. It's no different with MSFS2020. Without some TLC it will never be the greatest sim.

Now I'll go back to preferred sim, P3D v4.5, where I can once again enjoy this expensive investment.

Stay safe everyone!

Jose

 

Edited August 19, 2020 by DJJose

[Dutch727 543]

It's too bad you had such a tough first experience.  I wasn't in the Alpha/Beta so my first look at this sim was with the release version.

After a couple of false starts once it started downloading it went without issue over night and Tuesday morning I started it up with no issues.

My system is modest compared to many here.  I7-7700K at 4.8 Mhz, 16GB RAM, SSD, 1070Ti video; 100Mbps internet.  The game recommended "High" settings for me and flight with those defaults, out of the box with no tweaking, was smooth without stutters at 50-60 FPS.  I experimentally upped it to Ultra and flight was still smooth and everything was a bit sharper, frames dropped about 10.  I did notice that approaching a city or other dense area there were a few slight bumps and the frame rate dropped by half as the new area loaded, but this was hardly noticeable and not a major issue for me.  (Other sims I fly, P3Dv5, XP11, and DCS also have this happen.) Frame rates are low for a minute or so if you start up in a dense area, as everything loads, and like with some other sims it pays to pan around in the cockpit to get everything cached for a smoother experience. 

All the objects I saw from the ground or the air were reasonably drawn - I didn't see any blocky trees.  There is the occasional, but very rare, big AI fail in that I have seen a few parking lots mistaken for buildings!  The automatically generated airports, even the smaller ones, are usually quite nice, although I saw one that didn't extrude up some of the buildings although I could see the outline on the ground.

The caveat here is that I have so far stuck to the 152 and 172 in areas where there are small towns and a few medium sized cities.  I do not expect with my hardware to be able to get this performance at a major airport in an airliner.  But that's the next thing I'll try, just to see how bad it is.

All in all my feeling is while there are some problems most are fixable and will be addressed; at the moment this sim is very enjoyable for what it's good at right now: VFR in GA aircraft; if we are looking for a smooth airline pilot experience there'll need to be some updates before that will be as good as it should be.

Dutch

 

[jimimac 19]

4 hours ago, Dutch727 said:

It's too bad you had such a tough first experience.  I wasn't in the Alpha/Beta so my first look at this sim was with the release version.

After a couple of false starts once it started downloading it went without issue over night and Tuesday morning I started it up with no issues.

My system is modest compared to many here.  I7-7700K at 4.8 Mhz, 16GB RAM, SSD, 1070Ti video; 100Mbps internet.  The game recommended "High" settings for me and flight with those defaults, out of the box with no tweaking, was smooth without stutters at 50-60 FPS.  I experimentally upped it to Ultra and flight was still smooth and everything was a bit sharper, frames dropped about 10.  I did notice that approaching a city or other dense area there were a few slight bumps and the frame rate dropped by half as the new area loaded, but this was hardly noticeable and not a major issue for me.  (Other sims I fly, P3Dv5, XP11, and DCS also have this happen.) Frame rates are low for a minute or so if you start up in a dense area, as everything loads, and like with some other sims it pays to pan around in the cockpit to get everything cached for a smoother experience. 

All the objects I saw from the ground or the air were reasonably drawn - I didn't see any blocky trees.  There is the occasional, but very rare, big AI fail in that I have seen a few parking lots mistaken for buildings!  The automatically generated airports, even the smaller ones, are usually quite nice, although I saw one that didn't extrude up some of the buildings although I could see the outline on the ground.

The caveat here is that I have so far stuck to the 152 and 172 in areas where there are small towns and a few medium sized cities.  I do not expect with my hardware to be able to get this performance at a major airport in an airliner.  But that's the next thing I'll try, just to see how bad it is.

All in all my feeling is while there are some problems most are fixable and will be addressed; at the moment this sim is very enjoyable for what it's good at right now: VFR in GA aircraft; if we are looking for a smooth airline pilot experience there'll need to be some updates before that will be as good as it should be.

Dutch

 

I have the same system specs as you and have almost the same experience but with occasional pauses one being about four seconds,also the problem of my controllers not being recognised which for a new sim this shouldn’t be the case,overall the scenery is ver nice to fly vfr and would be great to fly in vr, but at this time because of my system hardware this is not possible so it’s back to p3dv4 for me for flying until I get some new upgrades.

Edited August 19, 2020 by jimimac

[RaptyrOne 1,428]

Pity your experience was a rough one. Maybe you gave in too soon though. Coming from the older 32-bit versions of P3D, having chosen not to invest in the 64-bit version (too expensive a change for me at the time for what it was, sim and countless add-ons), I see MSFS as a huge step forward. Yes there are issues and there will be some frustration. I suspect however that most pressing  issues will be overcome in short time and we will see several updates. I just hope those updates don't emulate how Sony PS seem to issue updates and require 90GB downloads every time.

My very limited experience with MSFS so far has been more positive but I started with a clean PC. Formatted, fresh install of Windows 10 [2004], which took all of about 10 minutes, subsequently tuned, and installed only the apps/games I actually use and a dedicated drive for MSFS. No unnecessary AV products, CCleaner and other junk. I'm running with a mix of High and Ultra on a 50 MB connection with what is today an very average system i7 6700K, 980Ti 16 GB RAM, plus a decent set of SSD's drives. There are micro stutters but these are not related to graphics detail and hopefully Asobo will work on these. But they are there in P3D too.

 

 

[MrBitstFlyer 3,877]

2 hours ago, DJJose said:

1) I probably need the fastest CPU/RAM/GPU/M2 SSD combination to run FS2020. Heck there might not even be a system that can run this sim on ultra right now.

I have butter smooth performance on ultra settings.  i9 10900K, 32Gb ram, GTX 2080Ti.

[CFIJose 5,485]

1 hour ago, Dutch727 said:

It's too bad you had such a tough first experience.  I wasn't in the Alpha/Beta so my first look at this sim was with the release version.

I paid a dollar to try it out for a month. No big deal for me to at least try it.

1 hour ago, ghutcheon said:

Pity your experience was a rough one. Maybe you gave in too soon though.

FS2020 is not going anywhere. It will still be there if and when my CPU dies and I finally upgrade my system.

32 minutes ago, MrBitstFlyer said:

I have butter smooth performance on ultra settings.  i9 10900K, 32Gb ram, GTX 2080Ti.

This is good to know. Coincidentally I was looking at the cost of those spects and the 2080Ti is going for about $1800.

What SSD are you using?

Internet speed?

Are you using any flight sim controllers? If yes which ones work?

Thanks!

[ryanbatc 12,863]

You only gave it a few hours?  Oooofda....  I hated XP10 when I first got it.  I almost deleted it (a few times)....but I kept learning new things and after about a month it really grew on me!  I honestly think you'll need a little more than a few hours to form an opinion.  The sim is incredible...even with some of the warts.  

[virtualstuff 759]

7 minutes ago, ryanbatcund said:

You only gave it a few hours?  Oooofda....  I hated XP10 when I first got it.  I almost deleted it (a few times)....but I kept learning new things and after about a month it really grew on me!  I honestly think you'll need a little more than a few hours to form an opinion.  The sim is incredible...even with some of the warts.  

off topic @ Ryan which GA aircraft are you flying the most?

[CFIJose 5,485]

12 minutes ago, ryanbatcund said:

You only gave it a few hours?  Oooofda....  I hated XP10 when I first got it.  I almost deleted it (a few times)....but I kept learning new things and after about a month it really grew on me!  I honestly think you'll need a little more than a few hours to form an opinion.  The sim is incredible...even with some of the warts.  

Hi Ryan,

Not an opinion but a conclusion and a prediction.

I need a new computer to get acceptable performance, my controllers don't work and it will be a while before I can replace them or I get driver support, maybe my internet connection is not enough, and the sim does have issues that need to be addressed by ASOBO.

Trying the sim for the rest of the month will not make a difference.

Hope all is well Buddy!

[mrodgers 0]

41 minutes ago, DJJose said:

I paid a dollar to try it out for a month. No big deal for me to at least try it.

FS2020 is not going anywhere. It will still be there if and when my CPU dies and I finally upgrade my system.

This is good to know. Coincidentally I was looking at the cost of those spects and the 2080Ti is going for about $1800.

What SSD are you using?

Internet speed?

Are you using any flight sim controllers? If yes which ones work?

Thanks!

I have a fresh PC, my first gaming system.  It is pre-built, I could not build it for the price I paid.  

i7 97700 (whatever the last 3 digits, it's a 97xxx), 32gb DDR4 3600, and 2070Super.  Paid $1600 total and couldn't build this for under $2000.

 

I did NOT have a good experience firing up the sim.  It recommended High settings and for S&G's I immediately set it to Ultra.  I played with some sliders (to find out that was my mistake) and started the flight.  I don't know if there is a number small enough to represent my frame rate.  I was lost, clicking buttons that did nothing and 10 minutes later recognized the click.  I was hours into waiting for my mouse clicks and keyboard hits to register.  I couldn't figure out how to back out of the flight back to the main menu because I assumed it was the ESC key and nothing happened.  I couldn't get out of full screen nor could I alt - TAB out of the sim because I didn't have any programs running and had nothing for it to switch to.  After about 2 hours, the ESC key finally registered and I could get back into the menu and settings.

I found the scale slider maxed.  I didn't mean to do that.  I first thought it was resolution, which was defaulted to 4k.  1080 and resetting to HIGH got me back into the plane and the world and BOOM, smooth and stunningly beautiful.  Got up in the air and figured out how to get back to the settings while in flight and started moving things again.  That's when I saw the scale slider and moved it back to 100.  After that, set everything else back to Ultra and the resolution to 4k and it's butter smooth for me.

 

As for controllers, I have the Honeycomb yoke, flawless with no setup.  I don't have rudder pedals so I have my G920 connected but I need a couple utilities I can't get to work to combine my clutch and throttle pedal to a combined axis.  I want to also use the shifter between 3rd, N, and 4th as flaps maybe.  I have the Thrustmaster T-Flight Hotas stick that I am using for throttle and an xBox controller I will connect tonight for the drone camera.  The flight stick performed with no setup as a flight stick just fine. 

I changed some key/button/axis bindings around and now my joystick up and down is elevator trim, throttle works well and 2 buttons for flaps up and down on the throttle.  I have a ton of buttons I have to configure between the yoke and joystick/throttle yet.  They all connected and setup just fine without me doing anything.

That's  not to say I didn't find it extremely sensitive.  I have to play with the sensitivities as the trim wheel barely moves and the airplane pitches wildly up or down and using the elevator control on the yoke also pitches the airplane wildly.  

Edited August 19, 2020 by mrodgers

[ryanbatc 12,863]

54 minutes ago, DJJose said:

Hi Ryan,

Not an opinion but a conclusion and a prediction.

I need a new computer to get acceptable performance, my controllers don't work and it will be a while before I can replace them or I get driver support, maybe my internet connection is not enough, and the sim does have issues that need to be addressed by ASOBO.

Trying the sim for the rest of the month will not make a difference.

Hope all is well Buddy!

What are you specs?  I thought you had an upgraded machine?  Maybe I mixed you up with another guy.  Your controllers won't show up in the sim?  What do you have?  What's your down speed?

[alexcolka 183]

Modest machine too: i7700 4.2 ghz, 32 gb ram, 1 tb ssd m.2, GTX 1080ti and 1080p monitor: at ultra settings great experience too, 7 hours to download the 97 gb, no problem running the first time, only a whole discovery to set up my incredible old but also incredible trusty Sidewinder Pro 2 FF that wasn't recognized and had to assign evrything from scratch.

I agree in letting the things settle for a while however what is driving me nuts is the auto generation of new zones, why is this process so hard for the machine? almost a lock up. Is it the internet connection for downloading the new areas? I have just 40 mbps connection, once an area is set all the smoothness is back, btw my rolling cache is at 32 gb, any suggestions will be appreciated.

Thanks,